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Old 11-03-2012, 09:53 AM    (permalink
NY+Giants=NYG
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Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers View Post
Shockey was very well behaved here. The reason I didn't like him was the disproportionate amount of love he got here, considering he was so mediocre. Bitches loved him though, jeeeeez
Yeah well he does get his share of arse. But Payton had a talk with him after he got traded and they were on the right page. So he was a good boy there. Here Coughlin's style and Shockey didn't mix. Also, no more NY media trying to get him to say stupid things.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:00 AM    (permalink
Matthew Jones
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Kyle Arrington seems to be that guy in New England. He's allowed dozens of touchdowns over the past three seasons and is off to a terrible start in 2012 (29/36, 451 yards, 4 TD, 0 INT, 155.8 rating against.)
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I'd say Travis Beckum or Ramses Barden for the Giants.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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Well, it's understandable if they are great on special teams. But some of the guys you're all listing are ******* non-contributing zeros. Derek ******* Smith comes to mind. Talk about a pile jumper.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I'd say Travis Beckum or Ramses Barden for the Giants.
Aren't you forgetting William Beatty...
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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Aren't you forgetting William Beatty...
I thought about him. But he's actually playing decent this year so I can't include him.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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I thought about him. But he's actually playing decent this year so I can't include him.
*loud whooshing sound*
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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I still don't like him Rose. He's solid. Which is fine with Eli as your qb. But he's not exactly Joe Thomas either.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:45 PM    (permalink
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Todd Collins was on the Chiefs roster for 8 seasons...

I win.
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Old 11-03-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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Matt Cassell has been on your roster for 4 years too.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Cooper Carlisle and Khalif ******* Barnes.
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:21 PM    (permalink
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I was talking more about guys who start yearly, and are always the weak link, and there is never talk about replacing them.

Shanle has started 93 of the 96 games he's played in for the Saints. LIKE WTF
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Old 11-03-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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I was talking more about guys who start yearly, and are always the weak link, and there is never talk about replacing them.

Shanle has started 93 of the 96 games he's played in for the Saints. LIKE WTF
That has Matt Cassel written all over it.
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Old 11-03-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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Cooper Carlisle and Khalif ******* Barnes.
Barnes was great as a 3rd OT coming in as the big TE. But paying him or expecting anything more than that had been the folly of 3 head coaches now. Cooper Carlisle... Ugh...
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:24 PM    (permalink
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I immediately thought of Robert Geathers for the Bengals. This guy has played 8 seasons, started 95 games, and he has 31.5 sacks. The worst part is that early in his career he had a 10 sack season -- the kicker here is: in no other season has he gotten more than 3.5 sacks. It's not like this guy is just a run-stopper either. After his 10 sack season, a lot of beat writers around here hyped him as the next sack specialist for the Bengals. But as the years go by, and the excuses continue, he's now considered just a "solid veteran". With all of the trouble we've had on the defensive line since Marvin has been here, this guy continues to keep his job as a 4-3 Defensive end that cannot get pressure (and he's not very good against the run either).

Not once since he's been on this team have I ever heard a word about him being cut. He continues to be considered a valuable part of this time, despite doing almost nothing on Sundays. Maybe he's amazing at getting coffee during the week or something and coaches just don't want to train someone else to do that!
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Old 11-03-2012, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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I immediately thought of Robert Geathers for the Bengals. This guy has played 8 seasons, started 95 games, and he has 31.5 sacks. The worst part is that early in his career he had a 10 sack season -- the kicker here is: in no other season has he gotten more than 3.5 sacks. It's not like this guy is just a run-stopper either. After his 10 sack season, a lot of beat writers around here hyped him as the next sack specialist for the Bengals. But as the years go by, and the excuses continue, he's now considered just a "solid veteran". With all of the trouble we've had on the defensive line since Marvin has been here, this guy continues to keep his job as a 4-3 Defensive end that cannot get pressure (and he's not very good against the run either).

Not once since he's been on this team have I ever heard a word about him being cut. He continues to be considered a valuable part of this time, despite doing almost nothing on Sundays. Maybe he's amazing at getting coffee during the week or something and coaches just don't want to train someone else to do that!
Well, when you don't bother with ridiculous activities like "scouting," I think there may be a preference for "proven" commodities, even if they've only really proven that they aren't very good.
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Old 11-03-2012, 09:19 PM    (permalink
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Manny Lawson. One or two 49ers fans here still defend his average to terrible play. Sure he was okay in defending the run. He was okay in coverage. But the guy wasn't drafted in the first round as an OLB for his coverage and run stopping abilities. He was brought in here to get sacks. And I don't care how many documented "hurries" he had on quarterbacks. The guy never was a finisher and just all around terrible at rushing the passer. Now he's with the Bengals and from what I remember still not making a huge impact.

When Aldon Smith came on board, it was like a light turned on. He's the guy that Lawson was supposed to be six years ago.
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Old 11-03-2012, 10:52 PM    (permalink
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I have a choice that doesn't exactly fit, but it's the closest I can come up with and is interesting in itself. A lot of the guys being mentioned never did or possibly never will get past their rookie contracts with one team. Chris Kelsay, while not usually the "weakest link", has never been anything more than average. And yet, only Dwight Freeney has played more games with one team among active DEs. Kelsay has signed three separate contracts of at least four years with Buffalo, the two extensions averaging right around 6 million per. And how many sacks does he have to his credit in his ten seasons? 32 and a half. Add in that he is, undoubtedly, one of the worst open field tacklers I have seen, and it gets you scratching your head. He's a "good locker room guy" with a great work ethic (high motor Chris Kelsay) and you know what you're getting with him, but you have to think that there aren't too many teams out there where he'd have this kind of security/paychecks.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:02 PM    (permalink
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I immediately thought of Robert Geathers for the Bengals. This guy has played 8 seasons, started 95 games, and he has 31.5 sacks. The worst part is that early in his career he had a 10 sack season -- the kicker here is: in no other season has he gotten more than 3.5 sacks. It's not like this guy is just a run-stopper either. After his 10 sack season, a lot of beat writers around here hyped him as the next sack specialist for the Bengals. But as the years go by, and the excuses continue, he's now considered just a "solid veteran". With all of the trouble we've had on the defensive line since Marvin has been here, this guy continues to keep his job as a 4-3 Defensive end that cannot get pressure (and he's not very good against the run either).

Not once since he's been on this team have I ever heard a word about him being cut. He continues to be considered a valuable part of this time, despite doing almost nothing on Sundays. Maybe he's amazing at getting coffee during the week or something and coaches just don't want to train someone else to do that!
After that 10 sack season he got a 6 year/$33 million contract. He is the 4th highest paid Bengal, and the 17th highest paid DE in the league.
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Old 11-03-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I have a choice that doesn't exactly fit, but it's the closest I can come up with and is interesting in itself. A lot of the guys being mentioned never did or possibly never will get past their rookie contracts with one team. Chris Kelsay, while not usually the "weakest link", has never been anything more than average. And yet, only Dwight Freeney has played more games with one team among active DEs. Kelsay has signed three separate contracts of at least four years with Buffalo, the two extensions averaging right around 6 million per. And how many sacks does he have to his credit in his ten seasons? 32 and a half. Add in that he is, undoubtedly, one of the worst open field tacklers I have seen, and it gets you scratching your head. He's a "good locker room guy" with a great work ethic (high motor Chris Kelsay) and you know what you're getting with him, but you have to think that there aren't too many teams out there where he'd have this kind of security/paychecks.
I feel that the Bills did at least attempt to upgrade him a few times though. If guys like Aaron Maybin and Alex Carrington had worked out, or if Mario Williams and Mark Anderson stayed healthy, would he still be on the team and getting playing time?

The frustrating ones that a lot of people have mentioned are guys who get to stick around with no real competition ever brought in. They're just handed their job to be mediocre (or worse) and never have to worry about losing it.
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Old 11-04-2012, 12:00 AM    (permalink
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I feel that the Bills did at least attempt to upgrade him a few times though. If guys like Aaron Maybin and Alex Carrington had worked out, or if Mario Williams and Mark Anderson stayed healthy, would he still be on the team and getting playing time?

The frustrating ones that a lot of people have mentioned are guys who get to stick around with no real competition ever brought in. They're just handed their job to be mediocre (or worse) and never have to worry about losing it.
Chris Kelsay will always be on the team. He did not have a starting job before Anderson's injury, that is true. I am still yet to adapt to the offseason spending, especially with how much time Chris has ended up playing.

Carrington was never likely to play the same role as Kelsay, if you ask me. Carrington is seeing a good amount of time as a #3 DT, currently.
Schobel's retirement, along with Maybin's own rawness/awfulness, made it so Kelsay's job was never in jeopardy, even when he was out place at OLB.

I said as much that this situation was different. The guys being mentioned that "never have any competition brought in" have been playing for 2-3 years, tops. Those things happen. I just think Kelsay's situation over the past decade has been something of note, in itself.
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Old 11-04-2012, 05:59 AM    (permalink
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Robert Griffin looks like Andre 3000.
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Old 11-04-2012, 06:46 AM    (permalink
abaddon41_80
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Manny Lawson. One or two 49ers fans here still defend his average to terrible play. Sure he was okay in defending the run. He was okay in coverage. But the guy wasn't drafted in the first round as an OLB for his coverage and run stopping abilities. He was brought in here to get sacks. And I don't care how many documented "hurries" he had on quarterbacks. The guy never was a finisher and just all around terrible at rushing the passer. Now he's with the Bengals and from what I remember still not making a huge impact.

When Aldon Smith came on board, it was like a light turned on. He's the guy that Lawson was supposed to be six years ago.
Lawson was drafted 22nd overall, Aldon Smith was 7th. Calling Lawson terrible is disgustingly inaccurate, Ness. At his worst he was average. I don't know why you hate him so much but he was way better than "okay" in coverage and against the run. He was just "okay" at rushing the passer.
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Old 11-04-2012, 07:16 AM    (permalink
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Lawson was drafted 22nd overall, Aldon Smith was 7th. Calling Lawson terrible is disgustingly inaccurate, Ness. At his worst he was average. I don't know why you hate him so much but he was way better than "okay" in coverage and against the run. He was just "okay" at rushing the passer.
And folks considered Aldon Smith a reach, not Lawson. Bottom line is that they were both first rounders. One is a bust, and the other isn't.

Lawson wasn't drafted that high to be average though. Like I said he was brought in here to get sacks, and failed miserably at doing so. And he's not making an impact in Cincinnati either. He was clearly expendable and the 49ers certainly don't miss him. For what he ended up being, he should have been taken in the 5th or 6th round. That's the kind of the player the 49ers got for their first that season. I chuckled when folks thought he would get back on track when he went to a 4-3 defense. Clearly not. And he wasn't just "okay" at rushing the passer. That's ridiculous. He had zero explosion and just constantly struggled at the point of attack. The few Lawson apologists want to cite how many "hurries" he had in such and such years, but he never ever finished, as in never got the quarterback on the ground...and never made any gamebreaking plays. 17 sacks in nearly 7 years is pretty bad. What is that less than 3 sacks a year? San Francisco definitely didn't get it's money worth is what I'm saying. I still remember him trying to lobby for a mega deal from the 49ers. Absurd.

By the way he's terrible against the run this year with the Bengals apparently.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 11-04-2012, 08:55 AM    (permalink
H.O.O.D
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Robert Griffin looks like Andre 3000.
So should we begin referring to him as RGMMM ?
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