Mid-Season Setting of the Standard - Page 5

Rosebud · 11-09-2012, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlysac

Synopsis.

Someone said Gronkowski was clearly better than Davis at everything other than wheel-routes. Ness argued the over-generalization. 49ers' fans ridiculed.

/synopsis

To be fair my original question was what VD did better than Gronk other than run that wheel route, a little hyperbole to point out that VD's only advantage lies in his explosiveness down the field, while Gronk is the better redzone target, has better hands, runs better routes, is plenty explosive himself, and VD's excellent blocking not withstanding, is a more overwhelming blocker as well. Gronk's the standard while VD and Graham are 2a and 2b over the old folks, Witten, Gonzo and Gates.

LonghornsLegend · 11-09-2012, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

To be fair my original question was what VD did better than Gronk other than run that wheel route, a little hyperbole to point out that VD's only advantage lies in his explosiveness down the field, while Gronk is the better redzone target, has better hands, runs better routes, is plenty explosive himself, and VD's excellent blocking not withstanding, is a more overwhelming blocker as well. Gronk's the standard while VD and Graham are 2a and 2b over the old folks, Witten, Gonzo and Gates.

Gronk might be better then VD in those categories but I also don't think there is a huge gap there. I also don't think Graham is a 2a, you could make a much stronger argument that Gronk is 1a and Graham is 1b. Both are young and getting better but Graham is still a much more raw player and I think he's got more room to grow before he maxes out his potential.

bigbluedefense · 11-09-2012, 11:21 AM

Why is it that every single one of these threads turns into a fight btw 49er fans and everyone else?

It's getting really annoying.

Jvig43 · 11-09-2012, 11:51 AM

Saints-Tigers · 11-09-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Why is it that every single one of these threads turns into a fight btw 49er fans and everyone else?

It's getting really annoying.

No, we're just all biased and crazy and jealous.

descendency · 11-09-2012, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jvig43

I think I should write a children's book titled, "If Brandon Weeden was 22."

Giantsfan1080 · 11-09-2012, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Why is it that every single one of these threads turns into a fight btw 49er fans and everyone else?

It's getting really annoying.

Apparentluy it's because us Giants fans have a thing for 49'ers fan. I know I want to date Borat at all but he's looking way too much into that.

Rosebud · 11-09-2012, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Apparentluy it's because us Giants fans have a thing for 49'ers fan. I know I want to date Borat at all but he's looking way too much into that.

You're gunna have to settle for Brent, cause me and Borat have chemistry.

Borat · 11-09-2012, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

You're gunna have to settle for Brent, cause me and Borat have chemistry.

But, but, ... every time I start talking about baseball, you make me sleep on the couch!

Borat · 11-09-2012, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Apparentluy it's because us Giants fans have a thing for 49'ers fan. I know I want to date Borat at all but he's looking way too much into that.

It's our eternal struggle over ownership of the name "Giants"

Ness · 11-09-2012, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

No, we're just all biased and crazy and jealous.

Well some of you Saints fans are straight up crazy. Remember this guy?

Saints-Tigers · 11-09-2012, 06:29 PM

We're not as crazy as you obviously. Our TE is better than Vernon Davis, and we still don't think he's better than Gronk.

Rosebud · 11-09-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat

But, but, ... every time I start talking about baseball, you make me sleep on the couch!

If you were a little more willing to make it up to me in other ways, I could tune it out n let you say baseball things at me, just for you.

Ness · 11-09-2012, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

We're not as crazy as you obviously. Our TE is better than Vernon Davis, and we still don't think he's better than Gronk.

My opinion stating that I don't believe the differences between Vernon Davis and Rob Gronkowski are as vast as night and day is crazy to you?

Well, very well then.

Rosebud · 11-09-2012, 06:46 PM

If one is clearly better than the other, doesn't that make it night n day?

Borat · 11-09-2012, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

We're not as crazy as you obviously. Our TE is better than Vernon Davis, and we still don't think he's better than Gronk.

Ness · 11-09-2012, 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

If one is clearly better than the other, doesn't that make it night n day?

Nope. It doesn't. For instance, I thought Jerry Rice was better than Cris Carter and Sterling Sharpe, but I wouldn't say the difference between them was night and day like it was compared to someone like JJ Stokes. As a matter of fact I thought Carter did some things better than Rice. As an all around receiver though, I believed Rice was better.

Saints-Tigers · 11-09-2012, 06:54 PM

I think it's crazy if you can't see the difference between a guy who is a pro bowler, and a guy who is dominant, and an all time great(at a super young age, no less).

Ness · 11-09-2012, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

I think it's crazy if you can't see the difference between a guy who is a pro bowler, and a guy who is dominant, and an all time great(at a super young age, no less).

I do see the differences. I just don't believe Gronkowski is head and shoulders above Vernon Davis in terms of what he can do as a player. Hey you believe I'm crazy for having my opinion regarding the matter and I believe you're crazy for having yours. Perhaps we should leave it at that then.

cmarq83 · 11-09-2012, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

I do see the differences. I just don't believe Gronkowski is head and shoulders above Vernon Davis in terms of what he can do as a player. Hey you believe I'm crazy for having my opinion regarding the matter and I believe you're crazy for having yours. Perhaps we should leave it at that then.

I'm fine with leaving it here too. Gronk seems to be rounding back into form. Perhaps we'll just give it another season. You'll eventually come around

Ness · 11-09-2012, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I'm fine with leaving it here too. Gronk seems to be rounding back into form. Perhaps we'll just give it another season. You'll eventually come around

Okie dokie :)

abaddon41_80 · 11-09-2012, 08:06 PM

I can't believe I missed this debate. Even more unbelievable is that I don't actually agree with me fellow 49ers fans. Gronk and Graham are both definitely better than Davis, imo, and I would put a healthy Witten ahead of his as well. Davis is an athletic freak, obviously, and an amazing blocker but his receiving skills, route-running and pass-catching, are nowhere as good as those guys. People forget that Davis had serious drop problems last year. He seems to have it under control this year but he still had a couple of big drops early in the season.

Don't get me wrong, I think Davis would put up similar numbers to Gronk and Graham in a similar offense but I don't think he is quite as good as a receiver as those two.

phlysac · 11-09-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Why is it that every single one of these threads turns into a fight btw 49er fans and everyone else?

It's getting really annoying.

Its not. This is the generalization that frustrates me. Ness argues a bit, and several people egg him because they know he doesn't have an off switch. The 49ers have several very active posters who join the discussion, and it becomes a back-and-forth. Sad.

Especially when people say things like this...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saints-Tigers

No, we're just all biased and crazy and jealous.

It's just an outright lie, and gets us as fans of the 49ers fired up. It's basically matches and gasoline at this point.

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...iving&rank=232

Ness · 11-09-2012, 11:07 PM

I was curious to ask another person's general opinion regarding the matter. I got in touch with Aaron Schatz from Football Outsiders, for which he is the president and founder. You may have seen him on NFL Network's Top Ten or ESPN every once in a while. I wanted to know his stance on both players and if he believed the difference was indeed as vast as night and day. His response:

Quote:

Ness,

First of all, I am always happy to answer a question from someone who says "assuming you have a moment to answer because I'm sure you are a busy guy." You would have no idea how many readers assume that I'm not a busy guy or that I have to answer their question immediately or that there are like 25 of us working here.

Anyway, you are right. I think Vernon Davis has not been as good as Gronk, but the difference is not huge. Both of them are excellent blockers as well as receivers. Obviously Davis does not play with a quarterback of the same quality and it hurts his numbers. I think also it's an issue that Davis took a couple years to develop and many people felt he had an attitude problem early, while Gronk was Gronk immediately upon his arrival in the NFL.

Clearly a 49ers homer.

Ness · 11-10-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

People forget that Davis had serious drop problems last year. He seems to have it under control this year but he still had a couple of big drops early in the season.

I believe Vernon Davis has been credited with one dropped ball this year.