Report: Jets teammates vote against Tebow

[bigbluedefense]

It can't be any worse than Sanchez. I watch Sanchez every week. This guy has no business being anything more than a backup qb in this league. He's awful.

And they dumb down the offense for Sanchez too. It's not like they have a full playbook with Sanchez under center. They don't. Bc Sanchez is a moron too.

My problem is we act like Sanchez is so much better than Tebow. He's not. He's actually worse. I honestly rather build an offense around Tebow than Sanchez. At least I know my run game will improve with Tebow under center.

Sanchez is just awful.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

And they dumb down the offense for Sanchez too. It's not like they have a full playbook with Sanchez under center. They don't. Bc Sanchez is a moron too.

it's not a dumbed down offense for tebow. it's a completely different offense that doesn't at all resemble anything they run with sanchez under center. if they don't already have that built, putting tebow in makes them substantially worse. if they do, then they only risk winning an extra game and being unable to draft a new qb without first signing peyton manning.

My problem is we act like Sanchez is so much better than Tebow. He's not. He's actually worse. I honestly rather build an offense around Tebow than Sanchez. At least I know my run game will improve with Tebow under center.

Sanchez is just awful.

you have a weird bias for tebow. it's the only thing i can think of to explain why you think he's not one of the worst three qbs in the entire league. want to run some spread option? fire away. but a passing game should never be part of that offense. because he's easily the worst throwing qb in the league.

edit: and i say that fully agreeing that sanchez is awful. but awful is still better than anything tebow would bring to the table.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

it's not a dumbed down offense for tebow. it's a completely different offense that doesn't at all resemble anything they run with sanchez under center. if they don't already have that built, putting tebow in makes them substantially worse. if they do, then they only risk winning an extra game and being unable to draft a new qb without first signing peyton manning.



you have a weird bias for tebow. it's the only thing i can think of to explain why you think he's not one of the worst three qbs in the entire league. want to run some spread option? fire away. but a passing game should never be part of that offense. because he's easily the worst throwing qb in the league.

edit: and i say that fully agreeing that sanchez is awful. but awful is still better than anything tebow would bring to the table.

I just want to see it fail first. We blow off the offense without giving it a chance.

We all say the wildcat is dead. It was just a gimmick right? Wrong. The wildcat evolved. The vision that Bill Parcells had when he drafted Pat White, it's come to fruition now, with Cam Newton and RGIII.

The concepts are very much alive in the NFL. It just takes the right talent to execute it. The wildcat made way to the offenses that Carolina and Washington run.

The offense that Tebow runs can work, if the right talent is there to execute it. Now I'm not saying that Tebow is necessarily the guy to run it, but I think this offense has a place in the NFL. And I want to see it.

Think about it. A spread offense with Percy Harvin, RGIII, LeSean McCoy, and some big vertical WRS on the edges can't work? I think it can.

Why do you think Chip Kelly is getting consideration in the NFL? The game is changing. NFL teams are more open to college schemes than ever before.

It can work. We just have to be open to change. I'd love to see Tebow run his offense with the proper pieces around it. Just to see it. Let's give it a chance.

It's not a gimmick. It's a system that can work, as long as you have the right players.

[SolidGold]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Eh, people always assume that being a RB means you get the ball and simply run to the hole. Greene's biggest issue is he is a straightline runner with below par vision, with less than ideal speed and very little wiggle. Nothing I have seen from Tebow tells me he would be any different

Tebow is about 250 right now and anytime he is in the wildcat teams are expecting the run. Put him back there as an every down back and I think he can avg 4 ypc. It takes someone to actually think out of the box to use him in this manner.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by SolidGold

Tebow is about 250 right now and anytime he is in the wildcat teams are expecting the run. Put him back there as an every down back and I think he can avg 4 ypc. It takes someone to actually think out of the box to use him in this manner.

The Jets have Lex Hilliard who can do that as well but won't cause a QB controversy. Tebow won't be an upgrade over Greene at RB because he simply isn't a RB. We don't know how he will handle the mesh point when he's on the other end, how is his pass protection? Can he catch out of the backfield?

Tebow can't change just to fit in. He is a running QB who can run power lead or QB draws. It's a different story taking a handoff at full speed, having the vision to see where the hole or cutback is and hitting it without hesitation.

Really, the Jets made a monumental fuckup when acquiring Tebow. Asking him to be anything but the backup QB now is simply putting a square peg in a round hole

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I just want to see it fail first. We blow off the offense without giving it a chance.

We all say the wildcat is dead. It was just a gimmick right? Wrong. The wildcat evolved. The vision that Bill Parcells had when he drafted Pat White, it's come to fruition now, with Cam Newton and RGIII.

Come on BBD, even in the way you worded this analogy, it's laughable to try and make any correlation between Pat White to Cam & RGIII. We are talking about two elite QB prospects who have arm strength and accuracy that rivals the best of them in the NFL, they just were fast along with it. Pat White was a gimmick player, little, and couldn't throw. He was barely 185lbs. Those situations are hardly the same. The guys you are comparing him to are full time QB's who throw the ball a majority of the time, and throw it well.

The concepts are very much alive in the NFL. It just takes the right talent to execute it. The wildcat made way to the offenses that Carolina and Washington run.

I know you truly don't believe this. Just because you have a running QB doesn't mean you can say it's the Wildcat.

The offense that Tebow runs can work, if the right talent is there to execute it. Now I'm not saying that Tebow is necessarily the guy to run it, but I think this offense has a place in the NFL. And I want to see it.

Well then, I'm not sure what the point is then. I kinda thought the whole point was people trying to explain how bad Tebow sucks, and that he can't throw, thus you can't run an offense through him. How long do you think it'll last with your QB trucking people, throwing passes like punts, and scrambling around in the backfield aimlessly until the play breaks down so you can sandlot chunk a football downfield?

Think about it. A spread offense with Percy Harvin, RGIII, LeSean McCoy, and some big vertical WRS on the edges can't work? I think it can.

LOL. Yea, because RGII is actually a real QB, and a good one. That's what you seem to be missing.

Why do you think Chip Kelly is getting consideration in the NFL? The game is changing. NFL teams are more open to college schemes than ever before.

It can work. We just have to be open to change. I'd love to see Tebow run his offense with the proper pieces around it. Just to see it. Let's give it a chance.

It's not a gimmick. It's a system that can work, as long as you have the right players.

Which Tebow isn't....



See how long Chip Kelly last as a Head Coach in the NFL without a real QB. I don't care what offense he runs, let's see how they fare with Pat White or Tim Tebow as their longterm QB.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Come on BBD, even in the way you worded this analogy, it's laughable to try and make any correlation between Pat White to Cam & RGIII. We are talking about two elite QB prospects who have arm strength and accuracy that rivals the best of them in the NFL, they just were fast along with it. Pat White was a gimmick player, little, and couldn't throw. He was barely 185lbs. Those situations are hardly the same. The guys you are comparing him to are full time QB's who throw the ball a majority of the time, and throw it well.






I know you truly don't believe this. Just because you have a running QB doesn't mean you can say it's the Wildcat.






Well then, I'm not sure what the point is then. I kinda thought the whole point was people trying to explain how bad Tebow sucks, and that he can't throw, thus you can't run an offense through him. How long do you think it'll last with your QB trucking people, throwing passes like punts, and scrambling around in the backfield aimlessly until the play breaks down so you can sandlot chunk a football downfield?





LOL. Yea, because RGII is actually a real QB, and a good one. That's what you seem to be missing.





Which Tebow isn't....



See how long Chip Kelly last as a Head Coach in the NFL without a real QB. I don't care what offense he runs, let's see how they fare with Pat White or Tim Tebow as their longterm QB.

Pat White clearly isn't RGIII or Cam Newton. I'm not saying he is. But when Parcells drafted him, he did with the intention of hoping that White would become that type of player. He said himself that for the WildCat to take the next step, it needed a qb who can run and throw out of that offense, which he thought Pat White could be. He obviously wasn't that. But Cam and RGIII are those guys. That's what he envisioned when he drafted White. It just didn't work out.

And as far as scheme is concerned, what Cam runs in Carolina, and a lot of the concepts that RGIII runs in Washington are similar to what Tebow ran in Denver. They just made it work better because they could actually throw.

You'll see what I'm talking about when you guys play the Redskins this year. Watch RGIII and what he runs. It's the same **** that Tebow runs. He just makes it work because he can actually throw and thus take guys out of the box with his threat of actually throwing the ball.

Even Madden said that RGIII is a Tim Tebow who can throw. The concepts are the same. The execution isn't.

But with Tebow, hell, let's just see it fail before we kill it. Maybe he improved his passing, who knows. Let's just see it in action.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I just want to see it fail first. We blow off the offense without giving it a chance.

We all say the wildcat is dead. It was just a gimmick right? Wrong. The wildcat evolved. The vision that Bill Parcells had when he drafted Pat White, it's come to fruition now, with Cam Newton and RGIII.

The concepts are very much alive in the NFL. It just takes the right talent to execute it. The wildcat made way to the offenses that Carolina and Washington run.

The offense that Tebow runs can work, if the right talent is there to execute it. Now I'm not saying that Tebow is necessarily the guy to run it, but I think this offense has a place in the NFL. And I want to see it.

Think about it. A spread offense with Percy Harvin, RGIII, LeSean McCoy, and some big vertical WRS on the edges can't work? I think it can.

Why do you think Chip Kelly is getting consideration in the NFL? The game is changing. NFL teams are more open to college schemes than ever before.

It can work. We just have to be open to change. I'd love to see Tebow run his offense with the proper pieces around it. Just to see it. Let's give it a chance.

It's not a gimmick. It's a system that can work, as long as you have the right players.

i don't think you meant to quote me there... i haven't (and won't) argue that the offense itself can't work. i fully agree that it seems like the 'next thing', given the qbs coming out, and the skillsets players have. the issue is whether or not the jets have that offense installed. tebow can't run a 'traditional' offense. he just can't drop back and read a defense that way. so if the jets don't already have that kind of offense in place, as we saw in denver, it's a really, really difficult thing to do mid-stream. having 5 wildcat like plays doesn't really cut it, even if tebow really was only capable of running about 5 plays in denver's custom tailored offense.

as a sidenote: he didn't improve his passing. the hardest working player ever spent two years and actually, somehow, got WORSE at throwing and did nothing to improve his god awful delivery. the tim tebow throwing the football thing is dead. if you think you can get away with a true spread-running-option offense, he's probably a pretty good option for it. but woe is you if you get down and need to throw.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by njx9

i don't think you meant to quote me there... i haven't (and won't) argue that the offense itself can't work. i fully agree that it seems like the 'next thing', given the qbs coming out, and the skillsets players have. the issue is whether or not the jets have that offense installed. tebow can't run a 'traditional' offense. he just can't drop back and read a defense that way. so if the jets don't already have that kind of offense in place, as we saw in denver, it's a really, really difficult thing to do mid-stream. having 5 wildcat like plays doesn't really cut it, even if tebow really was only capable of running about 5 plays in denver's custom tailored offense.

They tried trading for Percy Harvin before the season started, had they done that, they would have had great potential for a spread option offense. Hill is from the spread option, Holmes can run block and stretch the field, Keller can get you on the seams, and they could have done a lot of misdirection with Harvin and Tebow.

But not having that Percy Harvin type of player and Holmes going down hurt the ability of it to be as effective as it could have been.

But regardless. Sanchez sucks. Let's just see Tebow. At least they'll sell more tickets if Tebow starts. And isn't that why Woody got him to begin with?

And trust me, this was ALL Woody Johnson. After the trade, Tannenbaum was on the radio having to explain the trade. He couldn't even do it. He kept fumbling his words. He was making no sense. It was so obvious Woody Johnson forced him to do it.

I have season tickets to the Giants. During the draft party, we went to the Jets shop. 90% of the merchandise in there was for Tebow. I **** you not. 90%.

I know I'm going off on tangents right now, but whatever.

[njx9]

no argument with the second part. the entire allure of tebow for an owner is the merchandising. which is, coincidentally, the best reason a GM should never trade for him, nor a coach start him. it either ends with you getting fired, or you pissing off all the tebow fans when you inevitably bench him or trade him. the only reason denver got through unscathed was because of peyton (and actually winning now).

either way, i think you're not seeing tebow accurately. campaigning for him to start is something like campaigning for jimmy clausen to start. sometimes a qb just sucks and you're better off sticking with the current crap, than you would be riling up tebow-nation.

[RCAChainGang]

I actually really don't enjoy this at all. Tebow sucks as a QB, but he doesn't deserve that. He works his tail off and is a phenomenal guy. He is on the bench and no one but the media was calling him for QB so just don't do that. I am sick of hearing about the Jets. Gut the franchise and start over with class.

[bigbluedefense]

I just want to see him play. He's just so damn entertaining!

You see him side arm a 15 yard out pattern and it knuckles 10 yards over the WR's head and laugh.

Then he does a spin move, evades 2 defenders, and throws a 5 yard pass into the dirt.

Then he unleashes a 50 yard bomb pass touchdown, the team recovers a fumble on defense, and he jump passes another touchdown pass somehow to his FB with 10 seconds left, and he's praying on the sidelines and we're all watching laughing hysterically.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I just want to see him play. He's just so damn entertaining!

You see him side arm a 15 yard out pattern and it knuckles 10 yards over the WR's head and laugh.

Then he does a spin move, evades 2 defenders, and throws a 5 yard pass into the dirt.

Then he unleashes a 50 yard bomb pass touchdown, the team recovers a fumble on defense, and he jump passes another touchdown pass somehow to his FB with 10 seconds left, and he's praying on the sidelines and we're all watching laughing hysterically.

This is why I'm rooting for it.

[TheFinisher]

The Jets' offense is un-watchable, I don't see how it could possibly hurt to put Tebow in there instead. At least the guy has the ability to improvise with his legs.

[LonghornsLegend]

I wish I could find the gif where Tebow did a reverse spin move in the pocket when nobody was in front of him at all.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by njx9

you have a weird bias for tebow. it's the only thing i can think of to explain why you think he's not one of the worst three qbs in the entire league.

The problem is the other two are Sanchez and Cassel.

[descendency]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

I wish I could find the gif where Tebow did a reverse spin move in the pocket when nobody was in front of him at all.

It was against the Patriots if that helps.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by descendency

The problem is the other two are Sanchez and Cassel.

nope, clausen and quinn.

[The Great Jonathan Vilma]

Originally Posted by njx9

nope, clausen and quinn.

must be a Notre Dame thing.

[49erNation85]

Just give a shot and bring the jets back into the play offs where Tebow belongs.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by descendency

It was against the Patriots if that helps.

Best I could find, but still never fails with the lollzz:





Seriously? What the **** was he trying to do?

[Forenci]

Honestly, I don't see why they don't start him. Who cares? The Jets are going no where this season. If nothing else maybe it lets them suck more and get a better pick.

[PACKmanN]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I just want to see it fail first. We blow off the offense without giving it a chance.

We all say the wildcat is dead. It was just a gimmick right? Wrong. The wildcat evolved. The vision that Bill Parcells had when he drafted Pat White, it's come to fruition now, with Cam Newton and RGIII.

The concepts are very much alive in the NFL. It just takes the right talent to execute it. The wildcat made way to the offenses that Carolina and Washington run.

The offense that Tebow runs can work, if the right talent is there to execute it. Now I'm not saying that Tebow is necessarily the guy to run it, but I think this offense has a place in the NFL. And I want to see it.

Think about it. A spread offense with Percy Harvin, RGIII, LeSean McCoy, and some big vertical WRS on the edges can't work? I think it can.

Why do you think Chip Kelly is getting consideration in the NFL? The game is changing. NFL teams are more open to college schemes than ever before.

It can work. We just have to be open to change. I'd love to see Tebow run his offense with the proper pieces around it. Just to see it. Let's give it a chance.

It's not a gimmick. It's a system that can work, as long as you have the right players.

The difference is that newton and rg3 can attack those defenses in the air. That is something Tebow cannot do.

Tebow is a backup qb. For every system, it has it's starters and backups. Tebow is a backup to that system

[Miaoww]

Originally Posted by njx9

nope, clausen and quinn.

Clausen still taking flak despite not seeing the field for 18 months. Seems fair.

[Matthew Jones]

Originally Posted by Forenci

Honestly, I don't see why they don't start him. Who cares? The Jets are going no where this season. If nothing else maybe it lets them suck more and get a better pick.

They don't start him because other people's jobs depend on success. Not many members in New York's organization will (or at least should) be safe if the Jets finish fourth in the division. While pulling Sanchez for Tebow may lead to short-term excitement and some extra spending money for Woody Johnson, Jets fans will still be calling for changes if he is unsuccessful; we also recently learned how Jets players feel about Tebow.

Without truly believing that Tebow would represent an improvement over Mark Sanchez, such a move would be motivated by fan pressure, short-term financial gain, and possibly long-term organizational gains (in the form of higher draft choices) that the people in charge of the decision (Mike Tannenbaum, Rex Ryan, Tony Sparano) would not be around to reap the rewards of.

I'm a fan of Ryan, but I could very easily see him taking the fall for New York's diminishing returns over the past three seasons (13-6, 8-8, 3-6.) More significantly, Mike Tannenbaum should probably be fired. The Jets have enjoyed some moderate success during his tenure, but it has typically been sporadic, and the current team is a mess.

Tannenbaum is responsible for quite a bit of poor roster management, and is on his fifth head coach (Parcells, Groh, Edwards, Mangini, Ryan.) Regardless of whether or not Woody Johnson retains Rex Ryan beyond this season, he may still want to consider firing Tannenbaum for such mistakes as creating a mess in the locker room (permissive coaching, potential disruptions such as Santonio Holmes, Bart Scott, Antonio Cromartie), the financial apology given to Mark Sanchez which will cost the Jets at least $12.85 million next year and $4.8 million in 2014, introducing Tebow to a fragile locker room, and investing heavily in old players.

If Johnson does want to move on from Rex Ryan, firing Tannenbaum should be an even easier decision. Does Tannenbaum really deserve a sixth chance, or should the Jets look for another decision-maker to reform their locker room and provide structure to their organization? He has been a fairly successful decision-maker, but the team is not going in the right direction and it would be wise to consider finding another personnel man to reinvest the cap savings gained from cutting players like Jason Smith, Calvin Pace, Bart Scott, and Eric Smith this year (~$31 million) and possibly Mark Sanchez/Santonio Holmes in 2014 ($16.55.)