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Old 11-20-2012, 01:14 AM    (permalink
dan77733
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Why not? You compared a PPG average through 9 games for Smith against 1 game for Kaepernick. The fact that Smith has attempted more passes actually makes it MORE difficult to have a higher average. But nice attempt at an argument.

Seriously. Anyone rooting for one guy over the other really pisses me off. I'm happy BOTH 49ers QBs can win games. Whichever player lines up behind center I'm rooting 100% for.

This "controversy" is NOT going to help the team. But feel free to keep perpetuating it.

I'm happy as hell with how Kaep played... but knee-jerk reactions don't make a knee out of you.
Fine. Fair enough.

Both QB's can win games but which one do you think can win us a Super Bowl? Which one is actually the future at QB? It's not Smith. And its not that im cheering for Kaepernick over Smith. It's that with Kaepernick, the consertative crap appears to be gone. He's Harbaugh's guy period and will eventually be the starter either way. It's just a matter of time.

With Smith, it feels like Harbaugh will NEVER EVER take the chains off of him where as with Kaepernick, the chains were never ever put on to begin with.

Its amazing. For six years, all I ever heard or read was Smith sucks and needs to go. We finally have a QB who can be the guy that makes Smith go and yet, everyone here still wants Smith.

I dont get it. Its like you guys are so used to this team being sucky for the last decade that you just accept it. I'm sorry. I dont want to see close wins or ties. I want to see my beloved 49ers CRUSH the opposing team EVERY DAMN TIME!!! Granted, im probably the only one who feels that way but what can I say, im a sore loser and especially hate losing in crappy consertative ways. At least if we're aggressive and lose, its like okay but at least we went after the win instead of just expecting it to come to us.

Anyone who can say that they prefer close games with could go either way over tonight's thrashing of the Bears isnt a fan because as a fan, you want your team to win every game and if you want your team to win every game, you have to go with the players who give you the best damn chance of winning every game. Right now, I think that's Kaepernick. His arm strength alone is a huge positive and weapon that Smith cant give us even in our dreams. But like a said several times already, we'll just have to wait and see what happens.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:16 AM    (permalink
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As for what Harbaugh said, I dont think that even he knows right now who'll start Sunday in NO against the offensive powered Saints. I do agree that whoever starts should just start. I hate flip flopping unless the QB gets injured then I can understand it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:21 AM    (permalink
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Its amazing. For six years, all I ever heard or read was Smith sucks and needs to go. We finally have a QB who can be the guy that makes Smith go and yet, everyone here still wants Smith.

I dont get it. Its like you guys are so used to this team being sucky for the last decade that you just accept it. I'm sorry.
What I don't get is why you still think about the 49ers when they sucked? Smith has played pretty damn well the last 2 seasons. I'm looking at THAT player, not the one from 6 seasons ago.

I don't care who the QB is as long as the team is winning. What I won't do is actively politic for one to start over the other.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:23 AM    (permalink
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As for what Harbaugh said, I dont think that even he knows right now who'll start Sunday in NO against the offensive powered Saints. I do agree that whoever starts should just start. I hate flip flopping unless the QB gets injured then I can understand it.
And the media is running with the "I go with the hot hand. Colin has the hot hand." comment.

Sadly they're forgetting to mention that Harbaugh said "Alex also has the hot hand."
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:48 AM    (permalink
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Obviously Kaepernick played great but this is going to be a long week. People seem to want to just forget Smith's recent play and ignore that Kaepernick started playing worse as the game went along. Even with Kaepernick's performance last night, Smith has still been better the last two weeks. There is no reason for Kaepernick to be the starter right now.

I also love the reaction of the non-49ers fans here. When Smith played well he is a system QB, bus driver, etc. Kaepernick plays well and he is a HoFer. It is going to be a long week, though I suppose a QB controversy like this is better than what the Jets and Jaguars have.

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Old 11-20-2012, 07:41 AM    (permalink
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And the media is running with the "I go with the hot hand. Colin has the hot hand." comment.

Sadly they're forgetting to mention that Harbaugh said "Alex also has the hot hand."
they've got papers to sell
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:26 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
It is going to be a long week, though I suppose a QB controversy like this is better than what the Jets and Jaguars have.
Chad Henne just lit up the great Texans defense. Henne is clearly the future.


I pray for Kaepernick to be a stud, but small sample sizes are super scary.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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Some numbers that confirm my believe that Kaepernick played worse as the game went along.

First three drives:
9/11, 158 yards, 1 TD

Rest of game:
7/12, 85 yards (44 YAC on the great run by Crabtree and great catch by Manningham), 1 TD

I am just not ready to anoint him when his play declined so drastically. The Bears prepared for Smith all week. Their gameplan was designed to stop the 49ers if Smith was playing.
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Old 11-20-2012, 11:32 AM    (permalink
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The thing is, these ppl clamoring for CK never saw him throw a NFL pass until last night. The haven't seen him struggled mightily with his accuracy. One game does not a career make nor break.

Look at the game. Most of his early throws, he was going to his first read. His first throw to MM, he missed Crabs come open in the middle of field. It's a process that's he is still learning. We don't have time for him to work through the growing pains of becoming a NFL starter. We're trying to win a Super Bowl here. Bears defense played excatly they way they expected. CK said it himself, they did pretty much what we saw on film. So what happens when the defense switches it up? He never saw multiple coverages. He never saw multiple fronts. A defense like the Cards or the Hawks will be a much different game for CK, and likely a very different degree of success. CK showed great progress in his development last night. But I still feel he isn't there yet. It would be different if saw something before last night as far as his passing that I thought he just needed some meaningful reps. But he looked SOOOOOOO much better as pocket passer last night than what we've previously seen, its hard for me to trust what I saw and think that he's finally turned the corner after one outing. Going on the road, in a hostile environment, is a different animal. I don't know if I trust CK to do that yet. There's no rush with this kid....and why ppl act like there is one is beyond me.

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:10 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
Some numbers that confirm my believe that Kaepernick played worse as the game went along.

First three drives:
9/11, 158 yards, 1 TD

Rest of game:
7/12, 85 yards (44 YAC on the great run by Crabtree and great catch by Manningham), 1 TD

I am just not ready to anoint him when his play declined so drastically. The Bears prepared for Smith all week. Their gameplan was designed to stop the 49ers if Smith was playing.
7/12 for 85 yards with 44 YAC isn't even a bad game against the #1 pass defense. Keep in mind that includes 2 throwaway's due to pressure. Those are likely sacks with Alex, based on how he's played this year. Regardless, before the game you posted this

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Originally Posted by abaddon41_80 View Post
So quarterbacks against the Bears this year have a completion percentage of 58.8%, 215 YPG, 0.9 TD/game, 2.1 INT/game, and a 59.3 QB rating. That is not encouraging. I have a feeling that this is going to be a week filled with a lot of "bench Alex Smith" talk, even if he beats those averages and we win.
I find it hilarious you were preparing excuses for a bad QB performance before the game even begins, then have our backup QB blow these numbers out of the water and STILL then try to discredit a really good performance after you basically said our starter wasn't good enough to achieve that.

And Kaep had 44 YAC with Manningham and Crabs...Alex had over 60 YAC against the Seahawks in what was frankly a below average performance, and over 100 YAC against the Cardinals in a phenomenal performance. I didn't see you criticize him them.

I'm not going to get into a pointless Kaep/Alex debate, and part of the reason is because the point of this isn't me saying Kaep should start (Alex should when he gets healthy), this is me saying I feel you are really, really biased...

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
The thing is, these ppl clamoring for CK never saw him throw a NFL pass until last night. The haven't seen him struggled mightily with his accuracy. One game does not a career make nor break.

Look at the game. Most of his early throws, he was going to his first read. His first throw to MM, he missed Crabs come open in the middle of field. It's a process that's he is still learning. We don't have time for him to work through the growing pains of becoming a NFL starter. We're trying to win a Super Bowl here. Bears defense played excatly they way they expected. CK said it himself, they did pretty much what we saw on film. So what happens when the defense switches it up? He never saw multiple coverages. He never saw multiple fronts. A defense like the Cards or the Hawks will be a much different game for CK, and likely a very different degree of success. CK showed great progress in his development last night. But I still feel he isn't there yet. It would be different if saw something before last night as far as his passing that I thought he just needed some meaningful reps. But he looked SOOOOOOO much better as pocket passer last night than what we've previously seen, its hard for me to trust what I saw and think that he's finally turned the corner after one outing. Going on the road, in a hostile environment, is a different animal. I don't know if I trust CK to do that yet. There's no rush with this kid....and why ppl act like there is one is beyond me.
I would also go with Alex over Kaep because i feel he's more consistent. He was on a hot streak himself, only missing 2 passes the last few weeks (should have had some throwaways instead of the numerous sacks he took, but w/e). Kaep had the highs last night, but he's a young QB and as DC's get more film on him, his lows will show up sooner or later. Can we as a SB team withstand a young QB's lows? Maybe, maybe not, but when we have a consistent veteran presence who's doing well himself, we shouldn't have to find out.

I also would have said start Alex based on the locker room, but after Vernon's comments last night, i think its even between the 2 QB's at worst. Here's what he had to say

Quote:
Davis' final catch, an 11-year reception in the fourth quarter, served as a strong endorsement of Kaepernick's skills.
"The ball he threw was one ball that Tom Brady throws," Davis said. "It was in the second window, right on the money. We've run that play many times and usually the tight end doesn't get the ball."
http://www.chicoer.com/49ers/ci_2203...ivalent-toward

Overall, under Harbaugh Kaep is going to dominate fools for a while...in the future. Make this decision in the offseason and be confident that we can trot out either QB and win a game, no matter how good the opponent is. Start Alex when he's healthy.

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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7/12 for 85 yards with 44 YAC isn't even a bad game against the #1 pass defense. Keep in mind that includes 2 throwaway's due to pressure. Those are likely sacks with Alex, based on how he's played this year. Regardless, before the game you posted this
I agree it isn't a bad game, but it isn't a good one either.

Quote:
I find it hilarious you were preparing excuses for a bad QB performance before the game even begins, then have our backup QB blow these numbers out of the water and STILL then try to discredit a really good performance after you basically said our starter wasn't good enough to achieve that.
How is that preparing excuses? I did not think Alex would be anywhere near as bad as those numbers if he had played. When I heard Alex wasn't going to play I didn't think CK would be nearly that bad either. I am not trying to discredit anything, just to point out that as the game went along Kaepernick did start to play worse. That isn't encouraging because the most logical explanation for that would be that the Bears somewhat figured him out, and that was after less than two quarters of play.

Quote:
And Kaep had 44 YAC with Manningham and Crabs...Alex had over 60 YAC against the Seahawks in what was frankly a below average performance, and over 100 YAC against the Cardinals in a phenomenal performance. I didn't see you criticize him them.
How many people actually gave credit to Alex for his performance against the Cardinals, though? All anyone talked about after that game was how much YAC the 49ers receivers got. They had 107 yards of YAC in that game, on 18 completions. Last night the 49ers receivers had 95 on 16 completions. That is 5.9 YAC/completion for both of them, and Alex Smith still had a higher YPA against the Cardinals, but no one has even mentioned the YAC from the receivers last night.

Quote:
I'm not going to get into a pointless Kaep/Alex debate, and part of the reason is because the point of this isn't me saying Kaep should start (Alex should when he gets healthy), this is me saying I feel you are really, really biased...
I don't feel that I am biased. Kaepernick played great at the beginning of the game but started playing worse as it went along, that is a fact. Alex Smith has played just as well or better than Kaepernick in recent weeks, also a fact. My point is that the people asking for Kaepernick are crazy and have no reason to do so.

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:22 PM    (permalink
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I agree it isn't a bad game, but it isn't a good one either.

I don't feel that I am biased. Kaepernick played great at the beginning of the game but started playing worse as it went along, that is a fact.
Better than that what you expected before the game....but not good enough after the game. 7/12 for 85, 1 TD 0 INT is nothing special overall (although again, 2 throwaways>2 sacks). But remember you expected much worse from Alex and were prepared well beforehand to crucify anyone who criticized Alex for a potential poor game last night.

https://twitter.com/Eric_Branch/stat...70157197844480

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Jim Harbaugh will address the media (and the QB situation) on a conference call at 4:30 p.m. #49ers
Hopefully we get a little more clarity on the QB situation.

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Old 11-20-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Better than that what you expected before the game....but not good enough after the game. If Alex had those numbers (7/12 for 85,1 TD 0 INT) , you were prepared to crucify anyone who criticized him, and stated so before the game.
What makes you think that is better than what I expected before the game? I expected Alex to complete around 64% of his passes and throw for like 225 with a couple of touchdowns and an interception and I expected the 49ers to win and I expected Smith to still be questioned. If Smith had completed under 60% of his passes with under 200 yards and the same amount of touchdowns as interceptions he certainly would have been questioned, though, and that was the point. No matter what Smith does he is questioned. He can vastly exceed expectations while playing much better than others have against a certain defense but people will still find ways to criticize him, like he did against the Cardinals. Even when those criticisms don't make sense
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:34 PM    (permalink
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If you didn't know any better, you would assume this team is 4-6 or 5-5 and the starting QB isn't 3rd in the league in QB rating from the way you guys are talking.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:37 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffSamardzijaIRISH View Post
If you didn't know any better, you would assume this team is 4-6 or 5-5 and the starting QB isn't 3rd in the league in QB rating from the way you guys are talking.
Exactly the point, lol. Smith has played great for the most part this year. Outside of the flukey game against the Giants he has 13 touchdowns with only two interceptions while completing almost 72% of his passes with with 8.2 Y/A and a 114 QB rating. Even with that game his numbers are great. He literally has twice as many touchdowns as incomplete passes in his last two games.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:46 PM    (permalink
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my hypotheses:

a) Niners are going to say something about the concussion as a reason to not start Alex, combined with the short week, and see how Kaep does against the Saints. If he does well, they roll with him the rest of the way.

b) Alex starts and, unless he struggles, open competition in the off-season.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:00 PM    (permalink
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To switch gears a bit, I went over to the Saints board. I swear, they're one of the more excuse-driven fanbases I've seen. And most have no doubt they'll beat us Sunday. It's like a 2011 time-warp over there...

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/49...79/index2.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brent View Post
my hypotheses:

a) Niners are going to say something about the concussion as a reason to not start Alex, combined with the short week, and see how Kaep does against the Saints. If he does well, they roll with him the rest of the way.

b) Alex starts and, unless he struggles, open competition in the off-season.
I see this happening too. Although Kaepernick played great last night I am still scared to see what happens when dc's get more film on him though.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
To switch gears a bit, I went over to the Saints board. I swear, they're one of the more excuse-driven fanbases I've seen. And most have no doubt they'll beat us Sunday. It's like a 2011 time-warp over there...

http://saintsreport.com/forums/f2/49...79/index2.html
It's a tough game no doubt. I had this as a loss before the year. Road dome game, playoff type environment, I'm sure they've had this game circled on their calendar, etc

Depends which team shows up. I think harbaugh has the team fired up.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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CK will start versus the Saints. Alex's health gives Harbaugh one more chance to evaluate CK. That allows CK to get all the first string reps this week and see how he responds on the road, in a hostile environment. The short-turnaround also allows for them to play it safe with Alex.
But I honestly feel Jimbaugh knows Alex is his starter....well at least I hope he feels that way. Switching QBs, this late into the year, with the aspirations we have will be disastrous. Mark my words....it will back-fire.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:22 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87 View Post
It's a tough game no doubt. I had this as a loss before the year. Road dome game, playoff type environment, I'm sure they've had this game circled on their calendar, etc

Depends which team shows up. I think harbaugh has the team fired up.
Oh I agree. But they really believe we don't have a chance. Like our guys aren't motivated as well, hearing their former DC talk about tearing guys ACLs and beating players 'heads in'. It will be a tough game but that defense is still horrible and their O-Like has a few starters missing. And they just got to .500 so its not like that offense has been particularly dominant like they were. I just expected a little bit more humility I guess.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:17 PM    (permalink
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Seriously guys, we should trust Harbaugh to put the QB out there that he feels gives us the best shot to win. I think he's earned that.

But **** yeah, we finally have a legit QB prospect. This makes me moist. I'm so amped on this team and the future looks so damn bright. I haz excite.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:00 PM    (permalink
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Colin Kaepernick is basically an incredibly smart version of Randall Cunningham in a GREAT system with great coaches....it's very exciting. I want to see him start one more game, just one to see if he can maintain this stuff.
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Old 11-20-2012, 08:58 PM    (permalink
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Harbaugh's presser cancelled. Now we wait till 12:00/3:00EST to hear him answer the questions.
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