Aldon Smith or Von Miller?

[bigbluedefense]

One of my pet peeves on this forum is, when we compare 2 players, often times we feel the need to talk down on one guy in an attempt to talk up the other.

Both these guys are studs. I'm gonna take Von bc Von is the better all around player right now.

But part of me thinks Aldon will have the better long term career bc of his length. But it's so close to call. Both of these guys are complete studs in the making.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by njx9

and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.

Yea but if we are honest with ourselves, isn't there just as much overreaction the other way? Like I've also noticed just as many people going "geez everybody is trying to put Kaepernick in the HOF" and "here everybody goes with the omggzzz kapernickzzz" post litered all over the place, when 98% of the post I've seen discussing Kaep was just honest feedback about how he looked yesterday. I'd probably say more people were overreacting the other way.


Same for Aldon Smith, I think(or at least I thought) people were recognizing him as one of the best young pass rushers in the NFL for awhile now, not just because he destroyed Webb and Carimi. While what your saying does typically happen with how overreactionary everything is, and ESPN going nuts over the next new thing, neither one of those threads were started in a trolling fashion or had a bunch of trolling post about either player being so awesome.


But just like nfldc overreacts to that type of stuff, there is still the large group who acts like any discussion that takes place is a huge overreaction. I think talking about how Kaep looked, or this argument here, is completely different then watching Peyton throw a million first half picks and watching everyone talk about how he's finished.

[njx9]

*shrug* the tenor of most of the conversation was normal discussion. but just like everything else, you had the folks who were suggesting kaepernick should start over alex smith immediately (or would be traded for a 1st round pick, immediately) and the folks who were making fun of them for it.

but just like last year with the packers, the loud extreme posters get the attention. and the thread isn't about him being a really good player. it's asking if he's better than von miller. but it wasn't posted last week, it was only posted after he abused the worst excuse for a pop warner offensive line i've ever seen.

[phlysac]

I can't argue against Miller. My only question is the assertion that this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion "before last night." Why not? Why shouldn't it have been?

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by phlysac

I can't argue against Miller. My only question is the assertion that this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion "before last night." Why not? Why shouldn't it have been?

For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.

How so? Not being biased at all. Miller CAN do things in space that Smith can't, but as far as production from the role they're asked to play, how is one significantly ahead of the other? I know statistical analysis isn't a good telling but most would assume that Miller is a superior threat to get tackles in the running game, yet when you look at them side-by-side, they are achieving virtually identical results. I support Miller at this point, but to be dismissive of it being in the realm of possibility seems disrespectful to just how well Smith has played.

Simple... explain "clearly superior."

[scottyboy]

Von Miller wears cool glasses.

Aldon Smith was stabbed.

Clearly in these things, Von Miller wins, so the answer is Von Miller

[MidwestJimmy]

I say Von Miller because he plays so many positions -- "normal" OLB on the second level, edge linebacker in 4-3 under formations, and DE in nickel. But there's nothing wrong with just being a great 3-4 OLB like Aldon Smith, especially if/when he becomes very reliable in run defense too.

[VernonLawson89]

Neither, they both suck.

[y.f.s.]

Which one is better and more productive?

(Welcome to NFLDC, where he have the same arguments for 7 straight years and just change the players' names.)

[njx9]

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

Which one is better and more productive?

who's playing DE for the giants these days?

edit: lest packers and 49ers fans think i'm picking on them, every winning fanbase and cowboys fans have done this on here.

[scottyboy]

Originally Posted by njx9

who's playing DE for the giants these days?

Jason Pierre Paul is a better and more productive DE than...

oh wait, that's not as funny. Because it's kinda true.

Osi's still better than peppers, right? RIGHT?

[bucfan12]

Both are phenomenal. But They're both in different defense schemes. I'd like to see Von miller as a 3-4 olb. I think that's his more natural position instead of te 4-3.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.

I don't think that's fair. I always thought they were very close. As pass rushers, it's damn near a tie. You can make an argument that Aldon is the better pass rusher. But Von is more refined, but who's to say that Aldon won't develop those skills moving forward?

I don't see why this wouldn't have been a conversation before this week. Especially since Aldon was a DROY candidate as well. It's not like he sucked before this week. He's been a beast ever since he stepped on the field.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by njx9

and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.

From what I have seen, Niners fans aren't starting the threads.

[vidae]

Originally Posted by Brent

From what I have seen, Niners fans aren't starting the threads.

Does it matter who started them? A few 49er fans in particular have been the most vocal in these.

They want to keep playing it off as they're being persecuted for no reason but that isn't even close to being accurate.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I don't think that's fair. I always thought they were very close. As pass rushers, it's damn near a tie. You can make an argument that Aldon is the better pass rusher. But Von is more refined, but who's to say that Aldon won't develop those skills moving forward?

I don't see why this wouldn't have been a conversation before this week. Especially since Aldon was a DROY candidate as well. It's not like he sucked before this week. He's been a beast ever since he stepped on the field.

That's the thing though, pass rushing is the only place where this even gets close. Aldon's not even close to as disrupt of a run defender or as strong in coverage. It's like the Ware-Merriman debates before Merriman's body broke down, they're close as pass rushers, but one does everything else at a higher level. And frankly, I think Miller's the better pass rusher to, Doom helps but that DL is terrible otherwise, the LBs are mediocre at best and the secondary can get picked on, so there's a lot more responsibility on Miller to make plays than there is on Smith. This is kinda like AJ Green v Julio for me, both are awesome, but one is clearly more awesome and even though the other could one day match or surpass him, until that starts to happen I'm going to pick the guy that's been better so far in a worse environment.

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

Which one is better and more productive?

(Welcome to NFLDC, where he have the same arguments for 7 straight years and just change the players' names.)

*sigh* at least Number 10 new his **** when it came to Linebackers. Unfortunately there's that whole everything else he'd talk about in the NFL forum, problem.

[FlyingElvis]

Originally Posted by Punisher

Both players are rising up the league sack sheet at record pace. Coming into the league Von was and still does get most of the hype. In your NFLDC expert poster opinion who ultimately is and/or will become the best player between the two and why?

Well, then . . .

Von is. Aldon will become.

Smith put up gaudy numbers as a specialist last year and through camp this year all the talk was working him into an every down linebacker. Good lord does he look like that now. To hell with the "all around" nonsense. Give me the guy that can take over a game like Aldon did last night.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

That's the thing though, pass rushing is the only place where this even gets close. Aldon's not even close to as disrupt of a run defender or as strong in coverage. It's like the Ware-Merriman debates before Merriman's body broke down, they're close as pass rushers, but one does everything else at a higher level. And frankly, I think Miller's the better pass rusher to, Doom helps but that DL is terrible otherwise, the LBs are mediocre at best and the secondary can get picked on, so there's a lot more responsibility on Miller to make plays than there is on Smith. This is kinda like AJ Green v Julio for me, both are awesome, but one is clearly more awesome and even though the other could one day match or surpass him, until that starts to happen I'm going to pick the guy that's been better so far in a worse environment.



*sigh* at least Number 10 new his **** when it came to Linebackers. Unfortunately there's that whole everything else he'd talk about in the NFL forum, problem.

I don't disagree. I just got the impression that you felt it wasn't even close, and I disagree with that rational.

While Aldon isn't the run stuffer or coverage player that Von is, I think when it comes to pass rushers, those 2 areas don't hold nearly as much weight as other positions. Your job is to rush the passer. Typically the guy who rushes better is the viewed as the better player.

Like, I could care less how well Aldon Smith drops into coverage quite frankly. If he shores up his run stuffing ability, which I have no doubt he will (he's already greatly improved in this area), I think it's neck and neck.

[Rosebud]

Eh, I really do think Von Miller is the better pass rusher, not by as wide a margin as he everything else he does, but I give him the edge there as well. Plus Von's just a monster at blowing up the run, so it does go into effect, if Smith was awful and Miller was just solid against the run, I'd agree that it doesn't matter, but Miller's an impact run defender, so it is a significant plus for him.

I'm also not going to argue that I might be biased, I loved Miller coming out, wanted us to trade our whole draft for him, and just love watching him play all over the place for Denver.

[bigbluedefense]

I wanted to trade the farm for Miller too. So that makes 2 of us.

I just think it's closer than you make it out to be.

And this is coming from a guy who thinks Miller should be #2 on everyone's DPOY list.

[Rosebud]

That may well just be my bias for Miller showing its influence. But just cause it's close doesn't mean one's not clearly ahead of the other, a la Julio/AJGreen or Ware/Pre-collapse-Merriman

...or Gronk/VD

[Cudders]

That’s a tough question. I love both Miller and Smith so much. I think we’re looking at a pair of defensive superstars for the next decade.

For Smith, I think he’s being a little underrated. His worth as a pass rusher isn’t just tied to one spectacular performance against an overwhelmed bookend of tackles. He’s got a track record of producing and splashing in the backfield. He notched 14 sacks as a rookie and has a legitimate chance at breaking the 20 sack barrier in his sophomore campaign. Plus, he’s got the tools to get even better. He’s got such a rare combination of burst, length, and power. Add some of the most violent hands I’ve seen and a developing repertoire of moves, and I think Smith has a higher upside as a pure pass rusher.

But Miller is a multi-dimensional defensive weapon. It’s rare for a prolific pass rusher to have his range. He’s a beast coming forward and a demon dropping back. We’ve seen a general trend toward amoeba defenses to deter offenses from using certain personnel groupings to isolate a specific mismatch. In those shapeless schemes, versatile defenders like Miller are a must. He’s special. Outside of Miller, I’d put Ware and Matthews as the other premier pass rushers that are capable of replicating what he does elsewhere.

So it’s close to a near toss-up for me. It would depend on the individual scheme. If I had to choose, I’d give an edge to Miller. Both are just studs though.

[VAfy-ya]

I just don't understand why one has to be better than the other. Why can't they just be two young, dominant players at their position?

And I hate the argument that Aldon benefits from playing next to Cowboy.

Manny Lawson
Prays Haralson
Travis LaBoy
Tully Banta-Cain

All those guys played next to Justin Smith as well. They didn't produce at even a third of the rate Aldon has. Talent is talent. Stop making excuses for it and just acknowledge it.

Von Miller is better player. He's more of all-around LB that was blessed with natural pass-rushing ability. But he has also played LB a lot longer than Aldon, who was strictly a DE in college and before that, played only two years of HS football. Aldon still has a ton of room to grow and is still learning how to play in space. But you can't go wrong either, honestly.

[bigbuc]

Can I change my vote? I voted for Miller, but after thinking about it I would take Smith. I like him more at the POA.