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View Poll Results: Who will be the better the player in your opinion
Von Miller 78 69.64%
Aldon Smith 16 14.29%
Too close for comfort 18 16.07%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-20-2012, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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I can't argue against Miller. My only question is the assertion that this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion "before last night." Why not? Why shouldn't it have been?
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:20 PM    (permalink
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I can't argue against Miller. My only question is the assertion that this wouldn't even be in the realm of discussion "before last night." Why not? Why shouldn't it have been?
For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:45 PM    (permalink
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For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.
How so? Not being biased at all. Miller CAN do things in space that Smith can't, but as far as production from the role they're asked to play, how is one significantly ahead of the other? I know statistical analysis isn't a good telling but most would assume that Miller is a superior threat to get tackles in the running game, yet when you look at them side-by-side, they are achieving virtually identical results. I support Miller at this point, but to be dismissive of it being in the realm of possibility seems disrespectful to just how well Smith has played.

Simple... explain "clearly superior."
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Von Miller wears cool glasses.

Aldon Smith was stabbed.

Clearly in these things, Von Miller wins, so the answer is Von Miller
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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I say Von Miller because he plays so many positions -- "normal" OLB on the second level, edge linebacker in 4-3 under formations, and DE in nickel. But there's nothing wrong with just being a great 3-4 OLB like Aldon Smith, especially if/when he becomes very reliable in run defense too.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Neither, they both suck.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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Which one is better and more productive?

(Welcome to NFLDC, where he have the same arguments for 7 straight years and just change the players' names.)
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:16 PM    (permalink
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who's playing DE for the giants these days?
Jason Pierre Paul is a better and more productive DE than...

oh wait, that's not as funny. Because it's kinda true.

Osi's still better than peppers, right? RIGHT?
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Both are phenomenal. But They're both in different defense schemes. I'd like to see Von miller as a 3-4 olb. I think that's his more natural position instead of te 4-3.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:38 PM    (permalink
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For the same reason it's not even really in the realm of discussion now? Von Miller has just been clearly superior so far in their careers. Both have great physical tools, Aldon more strong and long, Von more explosive and quick, but Miller's doing more with them with less help from his team-mates.
I don't think that's fair. I always thought they were very close. As pass rushers, it's damn near a tie. You can make an argument that Aldon is the better pass rusher. But Von is more refined, but who's to say that Aldon won't develop those skills moving forward?

I don't see why this wouldn't have been a conversation before this week. Especially since Aldon was a DROY candidate as well. It's not like he sucked before this week. He's been a beast ever since he stepped on the field.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.
From what I have seen, Niners fans aren't starting the threads.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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From what I have seen, Niners fans aren't starting the threads.
Does it matter who started them? A few 49er fans in particular have been the most vocal in these.

They want to keep playing it off as they're being persecuted for no reason but that isn't even close to being accurate.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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I don't think that's fair. I always thought they were very close. As pass rushers, it's damn near a tie. You can make an argument that Aldon is the better pass rusher. But Von is more refined, but who's to say that Aldon won't develop those skills moving forward?

I don't see why this wouldn't have been a conversation before this week. Especially since Aldon was a DROY candidate as well. It's not like he sucked before this week. He's been a beast ever since he stepped on the field.
That's the thing though, pass rushing is the only place where this even gets close. Aldon's not even close to as disrupt of a run defender or as strong in coverage. It's like the Ware-Merriman debates before Merriman's body broke down, they're close as pass rushers, but one does everything else at a higher level. And frankly, I think Miller's the better pass rusher to, Doom helps but that DL is terrible otherwise, the LBs are mediocre at best and the secondary can get picked on, so there's a lot more responsibility on Miller to make plays than there is on Smith. This is kinda like AJ Green v Julio for me, both are awesome, but one is clearly more awesome and even though the other could one day match or surpass him, until that starts to happen I'm going to pick the guy that's been better so far in a worse environment.

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Which one is better and more productive?

(Welcome to NFLDC, where he have the same arguments for 7 straight years and just change the players' names.)
*sigh* at least Number 10 new his **** when it came to Linebackers. Unfortunately there's that whole everything else he'd talk about in the NFL forum, problem.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Both players are rising up the league sack sheet at record pace. Coming into the league Von was and still does get most of the hype. In your NFLDC expert poster opinion who ultimately is and/or will become the best player between the two and why?
Well, then . . .

Von is. Aldon will become.

Smith put up gaudy numbers as a specialist last year and through camp this year all the talk was working him into an every down linebacker. Good lord does he look like that now. To hell with the "all around" nonsense. Give me the guy that can take over a game like Aldon did last night.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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That's the thing though, pass rushing is the only place where this even gets close. Aldon's not even close to as disrupt of a run defender or as strong in coverage. It's like the Ware-Merriman debates before Merriman's body broke down, they're close as pass rushers, but one does everything else at a higher level. And frankly, I think Miller's the better pass rusher to, Doom helps but that DL is terrible otherwise, the LBs are mediocre at best and the secondary can get picked on, so there's a lot more responsibility on Miller to make plays than there is on Smith. This is kinda like AJ Green v Julio for me, both are awesome, but one is clearly more awesome and even though the other could one day match or surpass him, until that starts to happen I'm going to pick the guy that's been better so far in a worse environment.



*sigh* at least Number 10 new his **** when it came to Linebackers. Unfortunately there's that whole everything else he'd talk about in the NFL forum, problem.
I don't disagree. I just got the impression that you felt it wasn't even close, and I disagree with that rational.

While Aldon isn't the run stuffer or coverage player that Von is, I think when it comes to pass rushers, those 2 areas don't hold nearly as much weight as other positions. Your job is to rush the passer. Typically the guy who rushes better is the viewed as the better player.

Like, I could care less how well Aldon Smith drops into coverage quite frankly. If he shores up his run stuffing ability, which I have no doubt he will (he's already greatly improved in this area), I think it's neck and neck.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Eh, I really do think Von Miller is the better pass rusher, not by as wide a margin as he everything else he does, but I give him the edge there as well. Plus Von's just a monster at blowing up the run, so it does go into effect, if Smith was awful and Miller was just solid against the run, I'd agree that it doesn't matter, but Miller's an impact run defender, so it is a significant plus for him.

I'm also not going to argue that I might be biased, I loved Miller coming out, wanted us to trade our whole draft for him, and just love watching him play all over the place for Denver.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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I wanted to trade the farm for Miller too. So that makes 2 of us.

I just think it's closer than you make it out to be.

And this is coming from a guy who thinks Miller should be #2 on everyone's DPOY list.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
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That may well just be my bias for Miller showing its influence. But just cause it's close doesn't mean one's not clearly ahead of the other, a la Julio/AJGreen or Ware/Pre-collapse-Merriman

...or Gronk/VD
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Old 11-20-2012, 04:53 PM    (permalink
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Thats a tough question. I love both Miller and Smith so much. I think were looking at a pair of defensive superstars for the next decade.

For Smith, I think hes being a little underrated. His worth as a pass rusher isnt just tied to one spectacular performance against an overwhelmed bookend of tackles. Hes got a track record of producing and splashing in the backfield. He notched 14 sacks as a rookie and has a legitimate chance at breaking the 20 sack barrier in his sophomore campaign. Plus, hes got the tools to get even better. Hes got such a rare combination of burst, length, and power. Add some of the most violent hands Ive seen and a developing repertoire of moves, and I think Smith has a higher upside as a pure pass rusher.

But Miller is a multi-dimensional defensive weapon. Its rare for a prolific pass rusher to have his range. Hes a beast coming forward and a demon dropping back. Weve seen a general trend toward amoeba defenses to deter offenses from using certain personnel groupings to isolate a specific mismatch. In those shapeless schemes, versatile defenders like Miller are a must. Hes special. Outside of Miller, Id put Ware and Matthews as the other premier pass rushers that are capable of replicating what he does elsewhere.

So its close to a near toss-up for me. It would depend on the individual scheme. If I had to choose, Id give an edge to Miller. Both are just studs though.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I just don't understand why one has to be better than the other. Why can't they just be two young, dominant players at their position?

And I hate the argument that Aldon benefits from playing next to Cowboy.

Manny Lawson
Prays Haralson
Travis LaBoy
Tully Banta-Cain

All those guys played next to Justin Smith as well. They didn't produce at even a third of the rate Aldon has. Talent is talent. Stop making excuses for it and just acknowledge it.

Von Miller is better player. He's more of all-around LB that was blessed with natural pass-rushing ability. But he has also played LB a lot longer than Aldon, who was strictly a DE in college and before that, played only two years of HS football. Aldon still has a ton of room to grow and is still learning how to play in space. But you can't go wrong either, honestly.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Can I change my vote? I voted for Miller, but after thinking about it I would take Smith. I like him more at the POA.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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Only this issue is night and day.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:21 PM    (permalink
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and i mean, every time a player plays well, we get a thread about how he's the best in the nfl, or has an argument for it, no matter what. *shrug* standard nfldc pattern.
Well, in this case Von Miller might actually be the best defensive player in the NFL. Right now is a great time for fans who like defense. The seasons that Miller and Watt are having are truly special.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:02 PM    (permalink
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I just don't understand why one has to be better than the other. Why can't they just be two young, dominant players at their position?

And I hate the argument that Aldon benefits from playing next to Cowboy.

Manny Lawson
Prays Haralson
Travis LaBoy
Tully Banta-Cain

All those guys played next to Justin Smith as well. They didn't produce at even a third of the rate Aldon has. Talent is talent. Stop making excuses for it and just acknowledge it.

Von Miller is better player. He's more of all-around LB that was blessed with natural pass-rushing ability. But he has also played LB a lot longer than Aldon, who was strictly a DE in college and before that, played only two years of HS football. Aldon still has a ton of room to grow and is still learning how to play in space. But you can't go wrong either, honestly.
One only has to be better if one is better, and just because one is better doesn't mean the other is a talentless hack. Watt is probably better than JPP right now, but that doesn't mean JPP isn't also a monster.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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Does it matter who started them? A few 49er fans in particular have been the most vocal in these.
The threads are about 49ers players. Why wouldn't 49ers posters be vocal? It's become pretty funny. Now non-49ers fans create threads about 49ers players and the jist is still expressed as 49ers fans perpetuating homerism.
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