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Old 11-20-2012, 05:27 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
I don't think I've ever seen a QB who wasn't jumped all over prior to the draft, not one, so I guess you could say every QB in the NFL who is really, really good. Hating QB's prior to the draft seems to be the norm as far back as I can remember, even after a year or 2, many are still lambasted although people have short memories. Eli, Alex, etc. etc.
The Tony Pike hype was hilarious.
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:29 PM    (permalink
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The Tony Pike hype was hilarious.
Some prospects get love that clearly shouldn't and others get too little. It always seems to be the wrong ones too.

I was definitely on the wrong side of the Clausen vs Bradford debate :/
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Old 11-20-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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seems like a real crapshoot this year - much like in 2005 with Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, and Andrew Walter - except those guys all had great senior/junior years. Barkley, Smith, Wilson, Glennon, etc. are all disappointing this year compared to expectations. Not what I want in a QB my team drafts with a high pick.
Rodgers' film was that of a top-tier QB prospect. Most draftniks thought so at the time. The reasons he fell were probably:

1) Most importantly, his personality. You can tell when he speaks in an interview - he just doesn't strike you in terms of demeanor/troop-rally/intensity as someone you'd risk your job behind and invest millions in. At the time he was also younger so he probably failed to portray that intangible 'leadership' quality which is more of a sense you get from someone than anything you can truly measure. He probably received a ringing endorsement from Tedford which may have been met with some skepticism considering Tedford's past.

Reservations like that can sometimes help in the interview process in terms of judging a guy. If he can't get fired up to interview and show you his personality and make YOU believe, why would you trust him to lead an entire football team of skeptical veterans and huge egos?

Problem is, Rodgers is clearly a fine leader - he's just a laid back California kid. A little quirky, a little funny, a little sarcastic. Personnel guys must have had reservations about him after his interviews. There is no other way to explain the drop down the draft board because his film was 1st-pick worthy.

2) Another contributing factor was probably Tedford's track record with poor NFL QBs coming from him.

3) And finally his lack of ideal height and bulk.

I think when powerful decision-makers looked at those three things, they soured on the guy with the best film and the best tools.

I think GMs and coaches need to be STRUCK by a truck by a big-time personality who can talk a big game about his work ethic and intensity and leadership skills (whether that means squat when they go to the NFL remains on a case-to-case basis). And I think Rodgers DID NOT deliver that. I think he seemed, to them (Bucs, Browns, etc.) a little TOO laid back. A little weird. Maybe immature. Not someone I want to invest MILLIONS and risk my JOB on.

Boy were they all wrong.

But all that is the only way I can rationalize Rodgers' drop. Because like I said, the majority of draftniks and draft pundits agreed that Rodgers was a first-tier, top10-pick in-pretty-much-any-year QB prospect. His performance against USC - insane defense USC (22-of-24 I think) was ridiculous.

------------

Sorry for the tangent but my point is that there is no Aaron Rodgers-level prospect in this class.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:58 PM    (permalink
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Ryan Nassib is the guy I like. Easily the fastest release of all these QB's.....with a strong arm. Comfortable throwing into tight coverage, and has a knack for leading his team to come-from-behind wins.

Nice size and athletic ability with tons of starting experience and has gotten better every year.
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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There's only 10-15 QBs in the NFL that are widely viewed as desirable starters. Knowing this, why would anyone expect any QB class to be 10 deep with sure fire franchise QBs? Instead of proclaiming every QB class is weak, perhaps having realistic expectations is a better option.
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Old 11-21-2012, 05:23 AM    (permalink
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It's uncertain at the top but potentially pretty deep with interesting prospects. I think it's fairly similar to 2011 but it all depends on what your opinion is on the particular players.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by gpngc View Post
Rodgers' film was that of a top-tier QB prospect. Most draftniks thought so at the time. The reasons he fell were probably:

1) Most importantly, his personality. You can tell when he speaks in an interview - he just doesn't strike you in terms of demeanor/troop-rally/intensity as someone you'd risk your job behind and invest millions in. At the time he was also younger so he probably failed to portray that intangible 'leadership' quality which is more of a sense you get from someone than anything you can truly measure. He probably received a ringing endorsement from Tedford which may have been met with some skepticism considering Tedford's past.

Reservations like that can sometimes help in the interview process in terms of judging a guy. If he can't get fired up to interview and show you his personality and make YOU believe, why would you trust him to lead an entire football team of skeptical veterans and huge egos?

Problem is, Rodgers is clearly a fine leader - he's just a laid back California kid. A little quirky, a little funny, a little sarcastic. Personnel guys must have had reservations about him after his interviews. There is no other way to explain the drop down the draft board because his film was 1st-pick worthy.

2) Another contributing factor was probably Tedford's track record with poor NFL QBs coming from him.

3) And finally his lack of ideal height and bulk.

I think when powerful decision-makers looked at those three things, they soured on the guy with the best film and the best tools.

I think GMs and coaches need to be STRUCK by a truck by a big-time personality who can talk a big game about his work ethic and intensity and leadership skills (whether that means squat when they go to the NFL remains on a case-to-case basis). And I think Rodgers DID NOT deliver that. I think he seemed, to them (Bucs, Browns, etc.) a little TOO laid back. A little weird. Maybe immature. Not someone I want to invest MILLIONS and risk my JOB on.

Boy were they all wrong.

But all that is the only way I can rationalize Rodgers' drop. Because like I said, the majority of draftniks and draft pundits agreed that Rodgers was a first-tier, top10-pick in-pretty-much-any-year QB prospect. His performance against USC - insane defense USC (22-of-24 I think) was ridiculous.

------------

Sorry for the tangent but my point is that there is no Aaron Rodgers-level prospect in this class.
Rodgers was killed by the Tedford association, pro scouts put a lot into the track record of HC's at producing certain positions, far more than people realize, no GM wants to be know as the idiot that took another flop from the same college HC. Spurrier WR's get dropped way down by pro scouts is just another example.

Rodgers is a very interesting study, after he was drafted, Green Bay changed his throwing motion quite a bit with great results. If he had been forced to start right away using the throwing motion Tedford taught him, he might never have become the QB he is today. The fact that he got to learn for 2 years really made his career.

I'd say Geo Smith has that type of potential. He seems to want to go through his progressions thoroughly before releasing the ball, something he doesn't always have the time for. I think it is an easily correctable thing and he could be a real standout at the next level. The reason I think it is correctable is because I see no panic in him when he is in the pocket, none at all, something all the great QB's possess.
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Old 11-21-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Geodude has that type of potential too. Provided he can grow legs.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:28 PM    (permalink
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seems like a real crapshoot this year - much like in 2005 with Alex Smith, Aaron Rodgers, Jason Campbell, Charlie Frye, and Andrew Walter - except those guys all had great senior/junior years. Barkley, Smith, Wilson, Glennon, etc. are all disappointing this year compared to expectations. Not what I want in a QB my team drafts with a high pick.
That may be a good thing.

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Old 11-21-2012, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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I'd say Geodude has that type of potential too. Provided he can grow legs.
Geodude with legs = Tim Tebow.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:33 PM    (permalink
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Barkley, Smith, Wilson, Glennon, etc. are all disappointing this year compared to expectations.
Glennon isn't disappointing at all. I don't know anyone who (sanely) had high expectations for Glennon. He's playing above expectations.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:21 AM    (permalink
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Another reason for Rodger's big slide is very few teams felt they had a real need for a QB.

This year Arizona and Kansas City have to get one. Unless Henne plays consistently well Jacksonville likely will. A new GM of the Eagles probably won't want to bet the future on a 3rd round QB he didn't draft. The Raiders should be looking for one. Not sure what the Jets or Bills will do.

I think Barkley, Smith and Wilson are strong prospects. Not elite like Luck or RG3, yet still worth a top 15 pick.
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Old 11-22-2012, 06:40 AM    (permalink
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Barkley, Smith and Wilson are easily the top 3 and the only 1st round prospects. I still have no idea which order I'd rank them though. They're all pretty even.

As for underclassmen, we'll have a pretty good idea where Murray stands after the next few weeks. If he can get it done against Alabama, then he's a 1st round prospect. If not, you'd expect he'll go back to school and give it another crack next year. I'm guessing Bray and Boyd are returning too?
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:44 PM    (permalink
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Barkley, Smith and Wilson are easily the top 3 and the only 1st round prospects. I still have no idea which order I'd rank them though. They're all pretty even.

As for underclassmen, we'll have a pretty good idea where Murray stands after the next few weeks. If he can get it done against Alabama, then he's a 1st round prospect. If not, you'd expect he'll go back to school and give it another crack next year. I'm guessing Bray and Boyd are returning too?
Yeah, this is narrative scouting.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 11-23-2012, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is gonna make A LOT of people feel silly for doubting him
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Old 11-23-2012, 04:08 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is gonna make A LOT of people feel silly for doubting him
Probably not.

Most people around here seem to forget that they hated a guy if he ends up being awesome in the NFL. DOOOOOOD, I LOVED HIM IN THE 2013 DRAFTZZZZ.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is gonna make A LOT of people feel silly for doubting him
DOOOOOOD, I LOVED HIM IN THE 2013 DRAFTZZZZ!!!
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:08 PM    (permalink
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Tyler Wilson is gonna make A LOT of people feel silly for doubting him
DOOOOOOD, HE SUCKZZZZzzzzZZZ!!!!1111!!!11111111

Seriously though, no QB should be taken with the top overall pick. These guys are all projects.

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Old 11-23-2012, 05:28 PM    (permalink
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I guess it's possible to argue for Wilson over the other quarterbacks in the class, but I can't remember being very impressed with him at any point this year. The Razorbacks lost to every quality opponent, often in embarrassing fashion, as Wilson led the 90th-ranked scoring offense. Obviously a few games were out of reach based on the defensive play (Texas A&M scoring 58 points), but there's still no excuse for the lack of scoring. Arkansas only scored 30+ against Jacksonville State, Louisiana-Monroe, and Kentucky. Can it really be said that he significantly elevated his team beyond their talent level? Maybe he could succeed in the NFL with a strong supporting cast, but I doubt he's going to resurrect anyone's offense by himself like a true franchise quarterback.
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Old 11-23-2012, 05:55 PM    (permalink
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I guess it's possible to argue for Wilson over the other quarterbacks in the class, but I can't remember being very impressed with him at any point this year. The Razorbacks lost to every quality opponent, often in embarrassing fashion, as Wilson led the 90th-ranked scoring offense. Obviously a few games were out of reach based on the defensive play (Texas A&M scoring 58 points), but there's still no excuse for the lack of scoring. Arkansas only scored 30+ against Jacksonville State, Louisiana-Monroe, and Kentucky. Can it really be said that he significantly elevated his team beyond their talent level? Maybe he could succeed in the NFL with a strong supporting cast, but I doubt he's going to resurrect anyone's offense by himself like a true franchise quarterback.


do you realize that we

1. have a head coach who kicked a field goal down 17 to 10 with 12 mintues left in the 4th quarter today.. on the 1 foot line... and we're 4 and 7 lol.

2. punted the ball on 4th and 4 with 6 minutes left to go wtih the game on the 40 yard line

3. all three of our starting fullbacks are out for season

4. our 2nd best WR is our backup QB

5. our Starting TE has missed 7 games, and is still our 2nd leading receiver

6. our starting corner back, safety, middle linebacker, both outside linebackers are all OUT FOR SEASON. we start 5 freshman, 3 on defense.

7. our head coach hasn ot used the same punt returner 2 games in a row the entire season.


good thing you aren't an NFL scout. there is not one scout in the country that looks at this cluterfuck of a team and blames it on Wilson. he owns 26 arkansas passing records. and he's only played for 2 years, and the QB that was starting before him is the Heir appurtenant in new England, and he just broke all his records, with 1/2 the offensive firepower available.
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Old 11-23-2012, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
I guess it's possible to argue for Wilson over the other quarterbacks in the class, but I can't remember being very impressed with him at any point this year. The Razorbacks lost to every quality opponent, often in embarrassing fashion, as Wilson led the 90th-ranked scoring offense. Obviously a few games were out of reach based on the defensive play (Texas A&M scoring 58 points), but there's still no excuse for the lack of scoring. Arkansas only scored 30+ against Jacksonville State, Louisiana-Monroe, and Kentucky. Can it really be said that he significantly elevated his team beyond their talent level? Maybe he could succeed in the NFL with a strong supporting cast, but I doubt he's going to resurrect anyone's offense by himself like a true franchise quarterback.
YOU MEAN WILSON HASNT BEEN ABLE TO BLOCK FOR TYLER WILSON AND PLAY DEFENSE?

he sucks.

He's the best QB in the class. His talent, intangibles, toughness, mentality, etc. Did you watch today? His WR's dropped like EVERYTHING. it was embarrassing
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 11-23-2012, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Look at recent QB classes and tell me this years crop isn't that good.

Yeah there's no generational talent, but there wasn't one in the classes from 2005-2011 either.

Look at the first 3 QB's taken off the board in 2010 and 2011.

2011-Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert

2010-Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen

I would take Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson and Matt Barkley over the top 3 in those classes anyday of the week and twice on Sunday's.
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Old 11-24-2012, 01:10 AM    (permalink
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Look at recent QB classes and tell me this years crop isn't that good.

Yeah there's no generational talent, but there wasn't one in the classes from 2005-2011 either.

Look at the first 3 QB's taken off the board in 2010 and 2011.

2011-Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert

2010-Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clausen

I would take Geno Smith, Tyler Wilson and Matt Barkley over the top 3 in those classes anyday of the week and twice on Sunday's.

I doubt it. For a second forget what they did in the NFL, and just remember them as prospects.
  1. Sam
  2. Cam
  3. Jimmy
  4. Jake

Now where we fitting in Wilson, Geno and Barkley in there? Barkley and Jimmy would be a push, for me. I'd put Geno below, Jake. Geno has some great mechanics, but doesn't have the arm. His far sideline throws float on him a bit, and he doesn't make too many deep throws and if he does, doesn't have the touch to get it in the right spot. Wilson I think is a better Jake, and does offer more tools, but I don't know if I can put him in front of Jimmy. I'll give him the benefit of doubt though, and let him in there as number 3.

I wasn't big on Cam or Sam, but they seemed to have it all, Cam with his tool and great potential. Sam with his high floor and ready to start from day 1.

I did love Jimmy and Jake. Jake I knew wouldn't be ready and would need work. Jimmy I didn't think he would blow this bad, but Charlie did a great job of hiding his flaws.
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Old 11-24-2012, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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There is a lot of depth in this class. There isn't one QB I really badly want but there are a ton of guys near the Ryan Tannehill/Blaine Gabbert level (obviously these two have had their careers go in much different directions)
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:26 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SchizophrenicBatman View Post
There is a lot of depth in this class. There isn't one QB I really badly want but there are a ton of guys near the Ryan Tannehill/Blaine Gabbert level (obviously these two have had their careers go in much different directions)
7 TDs and 12 INTs through 11 games, how is that much different than Gabbert?
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