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View Poll Results: Who will be the better the player in your opinion
Von Miller 78 69.64%
Aldon Smith 16 14.29%
Too close for comfort 18 16.07%
Voters: 112. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-26-2012, 10:07 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbuc View Post
And elvis dumervil is just some hack of a player.
This is probably the funniest thing about this thread to me.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:44 AM    (permalink
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This is probably the funniest thing about this thread to me.
If you look at the post right above it you'll see why I said it.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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1. JJ Watt
2. Von Miller
3. Aldon Smith
4. Jason Pierre-Paul
5. Ndamakong Suh
Yeah, this. I thought this was a pretty easy five to rank...
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:56 PM    (permalink
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The 49ers have a ton of talent, but realistically if everyone was as good as certain fans thought they were they'd be a juggernaut instead of just a really good team.
I don't know why but a majority of Pats fans on this board are some most condescending haters I've seen in a long while. Alot of you have this 'holier than thou' shtick that just comes across as straight douchebag. Sorry to those of you that are not.

If you don't think Aldon or VD are one of the best players in the league, at their respective position, every time they step on the field than I don't know what to tell you. I guess you win. Game. Set. Match.
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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soybean had this in the nfl gifs thread:

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Old 11-28-2012, 04:17 AM    (permalink
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I don't know why but a majority of Pats fans on this board are some most condescending haters I've seen in a long while. Alot of you have this 'holier than thou' shtick that just comes across as straight douchebag. Sorry to those of you that are not.

If you don't think Aldon or VD are one of the best players in the league, at their respective position, every time they step on the field than I don't know what to tell you. I guess you win. Game. Set. Match.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:03 AM    (permalink
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soybean had this in the nfl gifs thread
you do realize that he pulled him down mere seconds after that, right?
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:14 AM    (permalink
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you do realize that he pulled him down mere seconds after that, right?
It's okay. I fixed it. No out of context issues here, I promise.

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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 11-28-2012, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I don't know why but a majority of Pats fans on this board are some most condescending haters I've seen in a long while. Alot of you have this 'holier than thou' shtick that just comes across as straight douchebag. Sorry to those of you that are not.

If you don't think Aldon or VD are one of the best players in the league, at their respective position, every time they step on the field than I don't know what to tell you. I guess you win. Game. Set. Match.
Condescending? Certainly. Haters? Well only when weve reached an unbearable level of ridiculous homer statements by one fan base, and by fan base I mean like three posters.

And ive said several times, all joking aside, that the 49ers have ridiculous depth and talent at every position. It just doesn't mean that every player at every position is number one, and thats ok because theyre still damn good. Nothing wrong with ranking VD as the 3rd best TE in the entire league, or saying Miller is better than Smith.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I don't know why but a majority of Pats fans on this board are some most condescending haters I've seen in a long while. Alot of you have this 'holier than thou' shtick that just comes across as straight douchebag. Sorry to those of you that are not.

If you don't think Aldon or VD are one of the best players in the league, at their respective position, every time they step on the field than I don't know what to tell you. I guess you win. Game. Set. Match.
Stop it. When the rest of us have to deal with nonsense like Alex Smith being a top 10 qb in the league only to watch his own HC bench him during the season, we're going to point out how some 49er players are a little overrated.

They're not being haters. You guys need to get that nonsense out of your heads, just because we don't think a 49er player is top 3 at his respective position doesn't mean we're haters. This is getting ridiculous now.
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Old 11-28-2012, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by VAfy-ya View Post
I don't know why but a majority of Pats fans on this board are some most condescending haters I've seen in a long while. Alot of you have this 'holier than thou' shtick that just comes across as straight douchebag. Sorry to those of you that are not.

If you don't think Aldon or VD are one of the best players in the league, at their respective position, every time they step on the field than I don't know what to tell you. I guess you win. Game. Set. Match.
I obviously can't speak for all Pats fans, and am not sure of who exactly you are referencing with the above statement, but that can be said of pretty much any fanbase on this board. You won't like what some Pats fans say, likewise you won't like what some Bears fans say, or Packers fans, or Giants fans etc. The same thing can be said for a few 49ers posters on this board. I clearly don't feel as strongly as you do in regards to anyone on this board, however there will always be people who say stuff where you go WTF???

I also would like to see where anyone has stated that Aldon Smith and Vernon Davis aren't some of the best players at their respective positions. If you are getting annoyed because some people don't think they are the best then just get over it, people disagree all the time
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:19 AM    (permalink
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There is a difference between the context of the last three posts...

Summation: 49ers are such homers that they get upset when we say Davis is the #3 TE and Von Miller is better than Aldon Smith...

with the context that Ness and VAfy-ya are arguing against...

Summation: Gronkowski is night-and-day better than Davis, it's not even close. You can't even argue Smith is better than Miller. Smith got lucky facing the Bears. It isn't even close.



There is a WIDE gap in the reasoning for 49ers' fans to defend players that doesn't involve blatant homerism as you suggest.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:43 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
There is a difference between the context of the last three posts...

Summation: 49ers are such homers that they get upset when we say Davis is the #3 TE and Von Miller is better than Aldon Smith...

with the context that Ness and VAfy-ya are arguing against...

Summation: Gronkowski is night-and-day better than Davis, it's not even close. You can't even argue Smith is better than Miller. Smith got lucky facing the Bears. It isn't even close.



There is a WIDE gap in the reasoning for 49ers' fans to defend players that doesn't involve blatant homerism as you suggest.
First of all people who say Gronk is night and day better than Davis have every right to say that and be confident in their opinion. That's not a shot at Davis but it's an opinion, one held by many people, not just Pats fans.

There is certainly an argument that Smith is better than Miller, however in my own opinion it is invalid. Miller is nearly as good a pass rusher as Smith but a far superior run defender and coverage player.

I once again can't speak for other Pats fan, however I brought up the fact that Smith feasted on Carimi and Webb, though I did not once use the word lucky. He destroyed them. My point was, why only after Smith absolutely kills the worst, or 2nd worst, pair of starting OTs is this discussion brought up? It would hold more ground if this thread were made two weeks ago before Smith went off.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:49 AM    (permalink
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Comparing Gronk to Davis is like comparing Jordan to Wilkins. Yeah, they were similar, but the difference was night and day.

I don't get why 49er fans are so offended by that. Gronk and Jimmy Graham are by far and away the 2 best TEs in the game. Davis is the 3rd best, but there is a significant gap btw him and the top 2.

Get over it. Enough is enough with this already.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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Condescending? Certainly. Haters? Well only when weve reached an unbearable level of ridiculous homer statements by one fan base, and by fan base I mean like three posters.

And ive said several times, all joking aside, that the 49ers have ridiculous depth and talent at every position. It just doesn't mean that every player at every position is number one, and thats ok because theyre still damn good. Nothing wrong with ranking VD as the 3rd best TE in the entire league, or saying Miller is better than Smith.
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Stop it. When the rest of us have to deal with nonsense like Alex Smith being a top 10 qb in the league only to watch his own HC bench him during the season, we're going to point out how some 49er players are a little overrated.

They're not being haters. You guys need to get that nonsense out of your heads, just because we don't think a 49er player is top 3 at his respective position doesn't mean we're haters. This is getting ridiculous now.
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I obviously can't speak for all Pats fans, and am not sure of who exactly you are referencing with the above statement, but that can be said of pretty much any fanbase on this board. You won't like what some Pats fans say, likewise you won't like what some Bears fans say, or Packers fans, or Giants fans etc. The same thing can be said for a few 49ers posters on this board. I clearly don't feel as strongly as you do in regards to anyone on this board, however there will always be people who say stuff where you go WTF???

I also would like to see where anyone has stated that Aldon Smith and Vernon Davis aren't some of the best players at their respective positions. If you are getting annoyed because some people don't think they are the best then just get over it, people disagree all the time
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Originally Posted by phlysac View Post
There is a difference between the context of the last three posts...

Summation: 49ers are such homers that they get upset when we say Davis is the #3 TE and Von Miller is better than Aldon Smith...

with the context that Ness and VAfy-ya are arguing against...

Summation: Gronkowski is night-and-day better than Davis, it's not even close. You can't even argue Smith is better than Miller. Smith got lucky facing the Bears. It isn't even close.



There is a WIDE gap in the reasoning for 49ers' fans to defend players that doesn't involve blatant homerism as you suggest.
We're all homers at heart. I don't deny that I overrate some players on the Pats like Vollmer and Spikes, and I don't think that any association with a particular team would make somebody have a "holier than thou" attitude. I get on everyone's case when they're homers just ask AntoinCD and Razor how many times I've argued with them about Hightower and McCourty.

I just think things tend to get a bit out of hand when a team rises to elite status quickly, and haven't seen enough ups and down with that team to gain enough perspective. Look at the Packers last year as prime examples. We were having the same kind of arguments about Tramon Williams, BJ Raji, Nick Collins, and Greg Jennings. Now we're on the 49ers, and have had the top of the position argument with both Smiths, Bowman, Willis, and Davis in the past year. Now I think some of those guys have a legit claim, but realistically there is no way the 49ers have 5 guys who are the best at their position. We haven't even broached the subject on guys like Iupati, Staley, Brooks, Gore, or Goldson yet either, and I'm sure we'd have 1-2 of you guys make a case for one of them too.

Now I'm not saying I wouldn't do the same thing if I was in your position, and the Pats became elite again quickly after 5 years of sucking because I definitely would. It's our nature as fans, but don't get pissy and call people DB's because some guys are going to call you out on it.

Finally Gronk is a wide margin better than Davis. The only way I think I might get the point across to you is this way. Gronk, when positional value is taken out of the equation is the best player on the Patriots. His dominance is only rivaled by 2007 Randy Moss throughout the 11 years of Patriots success, and I literally have no idea how he could get any better. I do get testy when some 49ers fans think that a guy, while an excellent player in his own right, is on the same level as him because he just isn't.

I also feel that Miller is the best defensive player with Revis out. I think it's a stretch to compare a guy who might be the 4th best player on his own defense to him.

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Old 11-28-2012, 10:29 AM    (permalink
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yeah but McCourty is ******* awesome.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:31 AM    (permalink
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McCourty blows actually which makes me has a sad.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:32 AM    (permalink
cmarq83
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yeah but McCourty is ******* awesome.
I'm beginning to come around to him as a safety. He just can't play well against the Ravens because he gets too distracted by Raymell's thighs.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
scottyboy
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McCourty blows actually which makes me has a sad.
Don't make me go all 2009 and have us fight again. THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU WANT NOW, IS IT?
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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I like McCourty
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:36 AM    (permalink
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I think that right now, Miller is the better player overall and while im not just saying this because im a 49ers fan, I rather have Smith because he's the better pass rusher and has such upside and potential that he can truly become a dominant one. Also, as a 49ers fan, Smith is the first true pass rusher that we've had in a decade since Andre Carter at DE in the 4-3 so yeah, I rather have Aldon. For those who say that Aldon also has Justin Smith next to him, for the second half of the Saints game and majority of the Bears game, he was on the opposite side of Smith.

As for best TE...Davis being 3rd best is still damn good but you have to wonder how Graham would do outside, no Brees and no offense? Subtract Brady and how would Gronkowski do?

The biggest difference is that if Davis had Brees or Brady as his QB, he would easily be the clear cut best TE in the league but considering how he's done the last few seasons with Alex Smith, I would say thats more impressive than what either Graham or Gronkowski have done because unlike them, Davis didnt/doesnt have a future HOF QB passing him the ball. HUGE difference.
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:40 AM    (permalink
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I think that right now, Miller is the better player overall and while im not just saying this because im a 49ers fan, I rather have Smith because he's the better pass rusher and has such upside and potential that he can truly become a dominant one. Also, as a 49ers fan, Smith is the first true pass rusher that we've had in a decade since Andre Carter at DE in the 4-3 so yeah, I rather have Aldon. For those who say that Aldon also has Justin Smith next to him, for the second half of the Saints game and majority of the Bears game, he was on the opposite side of Smith.

As for best TE...Davis being 3rd best is still damn good but you have to wonder how Graham would do outside, no Brees and no offense? Subtract Brady and how would Gronkowski do?

The biggest difference is that if Davis had Brees or Brady as his QB, he would easily be the clear cut best TE in the league but considering how he's done the last few seasons with Alex Smith, I would say thats more impressive than what either Graham or Gronkowski have done because unlike them, Davis didnt/doesnt have a future HOF QB passing him the ball. HUGE difference.
Hey, if Lebron James had no balls he would be playing in the WNBA

This is a silly hypothetical thing to say. There is just no way to measure this, however for the QB advantage the Saints and Pats have the 49ers have the advantage of playing against 8 or 9 man boxes the vast majority of the time
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:12 PM    (permalink
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Hey, if Lebron James had no balls he would be playing in the WNBA

This is a silly hypothetical thing to say. There is just no way to measure this, however for the QB advantage the Saints and Pats have the 49ers have the advantage of playing against 8 or 9 man boxes the vast majority of the time
Agreed. I'm not saying it's exactly even, but Vernon Davis benefits from being in his offense as well.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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"Miller is the most devastating pass rusher at any position in the NFL. There is no one on offense who can consistently match up to him; offensive linemen are not quick enough to counter his acceleration. The 49ers' brilliant outside 'backer, Aldon Smith, has 43 quarterback disruptions this year on 292 pass rushes. Miller has 61 on 297, 41 percent more on nearly the same number of attempts. Watt's base numbers are excellent too (49 quarterback disruptions from 402 rushes). They come a close second in productivity terms to the Bengals' Geno Atkins, who has 40 QB disruptions on 300 pass rush snaps"

From an SI article talking about the race for DPOY between Miller and Watt
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Old 11-28-2012, 03:35 PM    (permalink
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"Miller is the most devastating pass rusher at any position in the NFL. There is no one on offense who can consistently match up to him; offensive linemen are not quick enough to counter his acceleration. The 49ers' brilliant outside 'backer, Aldon Smith, has 43 quarterback disruptions this year on 292 pass rushes. Miller has 61 on 297, 41 percent more on nearly the same number of attempts. Watt's base numbers are excellent too (49 quarterback disruptions from 402 rushes). They come a close second in productivity terms to the Bengals' Geno Atkins, who has 40 QB disruptions on 300 pass rush snaps"

From an SI article talking about the race for DPOY between Miller and Watt
It is confirmed that Aldon Smith is actually just really lucky with his number of sacks and is bad and is basically just the same player as Mark Anderson was for the Bears.
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