Russell Wilson vs Colin Kaepernick? Who is going to be/is the better player?

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Actually, he already has. Against New England, he was 16-27, 293 yards, 3 TDs, and no INTs.

Playing against New England doesn't count, it's clear Belichick is trolling the rest of the league by letting mediocre QBs look like they may become stars. I mean that's the only explanation for Mark Sanchez averaging about 300 yards per game against NE. No team could unintentionally be that bad

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

quit defending your fellow homer...

So now you're trolling me and not just Ness. Thanks. Glad I deserve it.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by phlysac

This is a new contributor to the site, and by the looks of his name could be questionable.

Aside from this post, here are the other contributions from 49ers fans in this thread...


He's obviously being sarcastic based on the recent posts the past two weeks.

and...


Whom openly admits to feeling Tim Tebow is a great QB.


Please don't use this as another reason to lump 49ers = homers into this.

Other than yourself i find Niner fans almost getting unbearable.

[phlysac]

Originally Posted by Babylon

Other than yourself i find Niner fans almost getting unbearable.

Is this opinion just from here? Because, truth-be-told, I avoid the major 49ers forums as well. However, I think that a good majority of all fans are over-dramatic and hyper-reactive.

I find that several 49ers' fans on here are pretty rational observers.

I think it's a combination of winning with the fact that the participation amongst 49ers fans on this site, is pretty high.

As it relates to this topic... I'm not a fan of the thread, to begin with. And I've never been a fan of people joining a site, or changing SNs, just to start a topic of conversation. Let's hope BaalkeBalls can be a rational fan and contributer.

[WCH]

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

< oh by the way is letting of his Tebow love at Qb. And admits he won't do crap in the NFL any more its sad but its the truth.

Admitting that you were wrong about a prospect is the first step to recovery.

[Babylon]

Originally Posted by phlysac

Is this opinion just from here? Because, truth-be-told, I avoid the major 49ers forums as well. However, I think that a good majority of all fans are over-dramatic and hyper-reactive.

I find that several 49ers' fans on here are pretty rational observers.

I think it's a combination of winning with the fact that the participation amongst 49ers fans on this site, is pretty high.

As it relates to this topic... I'm not a fan of the thread, to begin with. And I've never been a fan of people joining a site, or changing SNs, just to start a topic of conversation. Let's hope BaalkeBalls can be a rational fan and contributer.

I guess what's annoyed me more than anyting has been the throwing of Alex Smith under the bus by Jim Harbaugh and the ho-hum attitude that some Niner fans have about it. It's the biggest hatchet job i've seen in several decades of following the NFL. Individually most of your fan base has been pretty easy to get along with.

On an unrelated topic i find Patriot and Vikings fans the fairest and most reasonable on this site. (Don't ask me why)

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

< oh by the way is letting of his Tebow love at Qb. And admits he won't do crap in the NFL any more its sad but its the truth.

Originally Posted by WCH

Admitting that you were wrong about a prospect is the first step to recovery.

Unfortunately that prospect is Tim Tebow so you will be spending eternity in hell. But, some things are worth being right over

[njx9]

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

I make no bones about the fact that they try to minimize his impact on the game. He's set to have the fewest attempts for any 16 game starter.

Wilson is playing well and infinitely better in the same role than Mark Sanchez ever has for the Jets. I know Sanchez sucks ass, but this Seahawk team is not miles and miles better than the Jets team that went to the AFCCG in 2009 and 2010.

If he stays at this level and fails to progress (which is ENTIRELY possible) then yeah. There's a lot to build on with him, though. When/if he understands his protections and where throwing lanes will open up, I think you'll see the intermediate passing game open up more (and I have faith that it'll happen, because it happened for him at NC State and Wisconsin - he knows how to overcome his height deficiency by throwing from different/awkward release platforms, so once he understands his protections, I think his height almost becomes a non-issue). The intermediate game is the one thing they don't really ask him to do, justifiably.

i think there's a lot more projection in your assessment than in mine, which is fine, given that he's a rookie. but it seems like he's gotten too much love for just not playing poorly. which, if you're in the sanchez-manage-some-games-and-don't-screw-your-team role, is probably fine and well beyond 'good enough'. but i just haven't seen a 'moment' yet, if that makes any sense. you saw it with roethlisberger, when he was in the 'manage the game and let the run game and defense win' role. he'd make plays when they had to be made. he'd make throws that an nfl qb should be making. and while i understand completely the differences between the two (and admit that i just used ben because he's an easy example), i haven't seen any of that from wilson.

no debate that he could certainly figure it out. he doesn't strike me as an idiot, or someone who can't learn and play better. i just don't think he's very good today.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

he's not pretty good, short or not. he's entirely mediocre. he's in the bottom 5 qbs in the league that i think could win the game in the final few minutes. he's in the bottom 5 qbs in the league that i think are capable of leading a td drive. if he didn't have lynch to hand off to, that offense would be a joke. if he didn't have the defense to lean on, the seahawks would be dead last in the west. i'm not sure there's a single thing that nfl-russell wilson does particularly well.

edit: i should note, in spite of the above, that i don't think he's horrible. i just don't think he's very good right now.

He's driven the Seahawks down the field and scored touchdowns several times in the fourth quarter when we needed to score. The Lions and Miami both drove down and scored in the final two minutes of the fourth quarter; those losses aren't the result of Wilson failing to score, they were failure by our defense to stop other teams' passing attacks, which is supposed to be their speciality. Also, particularly at the beginning of the season, Pete Carroll was extremely conservative with the plays they called for him. So he doesn't account for as much as our offense as other quarterbacks do for theirs, but he's been very efficient and he's more clutch than you're giving him credit for. In fact, I'd say it's one of his strong suits. Your assessment is exaggerated. It's definitely a run-heavy team, but that's not a reason to call Wilson a bottom-5 QB. He's better than that. "Pretty good" is a perfectly reasonable designation. He's been making plays all year.

I could take him over Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Henne/Gabbert, Locker/Hasselbeck, (Person who lines up behind the Chiefs center), Carson Palmer, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, Skelton/Kolb, Sam Bradford without second-guessing myself. Wilson isn't going to the Pro Bowl this year, but he's certainly not "bottom-five," either.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

He's driven the Seahawks down the field and scored touchdowns several times in the fourth quarter when we needed to score. The Lions and Miami both drove down and scored in the final two minutes of the fourth quarter; those losses aren't the result of Wilson failing to score, they were failure by our defense to stop other teams' passing attacks, which is supposed to be their speciality. Also, particularly at the beginning of the season, Pete Carroll was extremely conservative with the plays they called for him. So he doesn't account for as much as our offense as other quarterbacks do for theirs, but he's been very efficient and he's more clutch than you're giving him credit for. In fact, I'd say it's one of his strong suits. Your assessment is exaggerated. It's definitely a run-heavy team, but that's not a reason to call Wilson a bottom-5 QB. He's better than that. "Pretty good" is a perfectly reasonable designation. He's been making plays all year.

I could take him over Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Henne/Gabbert, Locker/Hasselbeck, (Person who lines up behind the Chiefs center), Carson Palmer, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, Skelton/Kolb, Sam Bradford without second-guessing myself. Wilson isn't going to the Pro Bowl this year, but he's certainly not "bottom-five," either.

i wouldn't (and didn't) call him a bottom 5 overall qb, either. and while i didn't see last week's game, i haven't been at all impressed that he could take over a drive and get the team down the field when he needs to. i trust him about as much as i ever trusted tebow, in that regard.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

He's driven the Seahawks down the field and scored touchdowns several times in the fourth quarter when we needed to score. The Lions and Miami both drove down and scored in the final two minutes of the fourth quarter; those losses aren't the result of Wilson failing to score, they were failure by our defense to stop other teams' passing attacks, which is supposed to be their speciality. Also, particularly at the beginning of the season, Pete Carroll was extremely conservative with the plays they called for him. So he doesn't account for as much as our offense as other quarterbacks do for theirs, but he's been very efficient and he's more clutch than you're giving him credit for. In fact, I'd say it's one of his strong suits. Your assessment is exaggerated. It's definitely a run-heavy team, but that's not a reason to call Wilson a bottom-5 QB. He's better than that. "Pretty good" is a perfectly reasonable designation. He's been making plays all year.

I could take him over Fitzpatrick, Sanchez, Joe Flacco, Brandon Weeden, Henne/Gabbert, Locker/Hasselbeck, (Person who lines up behind the Chiefs center), Carson Palmer, Christian Ponder, Josh Freeman, Skelton/Kolb, Sam Bradford without second-guessing myself. Wilson isn't going to the Pro Bowl this year, but he's certainly not "bottom-five," either.

I don't think he's bottom 5 either, but what late 4th quarter drives are you talking about? He threw an interception against Green Bay at the end of the game that inexplicably got ruled as a catch, and he threw a decent post route to Sydney Rice on a play where the safety inexplicably didn't use the right technique against the Patriots. Any QB in the league would have made that read/throw and completed it.

There isn't really anything positive to take from either of those late drives.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by jrdrylie

Actually, he already has. Against New England, he was 16-27, 293 yards, 3 TDs, and no INTs.

That doesn't count, it was against New England. I'm pretty sure I could throw for 200+ against them and I'm 6' 205 and have never played QB in my life.

[FUNBUNCHER]

IMO Russell Wilson is right there with Luck and RG3 as performing at an unexpectedly high level for a rookie QB.

He's thrown for more TDs than Griffin,(17 to 16) and less INTs than Luck.
I've been impresses with Wilson the few times I've seen him play. I thought Matt FLynn would have supplanted Wilson by now as the Seahawks starter.

Hasn't happened and doesn't look like it will anytime soon.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by phlysac

So now you're trolling me and not just Ness. Thanks. Glad I deserve it.

I'm not trolling you, I just find it hilarious how some of you 9ers fans think you're being unfairly persecuted on this board.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

I'm not trolling you, I just find it hilarious how some of you 9ers fans think you're being unfairly persecuted on this board.

Kind of like injuriezzzz with Packers fans, but 100x more frustrating and nowhere near as funny.

[y.f.s.]

The last time I have to read about how underrated AlexDavid GarrardSmith is will be so amazing.

Kaep4ever

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Kind of like injuriezzzz with Packers fans, but 100x more frustrating and nowhere near as funny.

That's just because no 49ers fan can make a poll quite like JMike88

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

i wouldn't (and didn't) call him a bottom 5 overall qb, either. and while i didn't see last week's game, i haven't been at all impressed that he could take over a drive and get the team down the field when he needs to. i trust him about as much as i ever trusted tebow, in that regard.

I misread you. You said "bottom 5 QBs who could lead a game-winning drive" and I took that to mean "among the 5 worst at leading game-winning drives." As far as taking over drives and leading the team down the field, vs Miami might be the best example of that all year, seeing as how Marshawn couldn't get anything going all game. We had two 80-yard touchdown drives, and they were all on him.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

I misread you. You said "bottom 5 QBs who could lead a game-winning drive" and I took that to mean "among the 5 worst at leading game-winning drives." As far as taking over drives and leading the team down the field, vs Miami might be the best example of that all year, seeing as how Marshawn couldn't get anything going all game. We had two 80-yard touchdown drives, and they were all on him.

i'll have to watch the game at some point, as that was the lone game i've completely missed this year (yes, i have friends who are actually seahawks fans, admit it publicly, and drag me to bars so they can watch the games... ugh).

[abaddon41_80]

Originally Posted by y.f.s.

The last time I have to read about how underrated AlexDavid GarrardSmith is will be so amazing.

Kaep4ever

Obviously I want Kaepernick to succeed and am rooting for him to do so but if he crashes and burns this year while bringing the 49ers down with him can you imagine this board's reaction?

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

i'll have to watch the game at some point, as that was the lone game i've completely missed this year (yes, i have friends who are actually seahawks fans, admit it publicly, and drag me to bars so they can watch the games... ugh).

Having seen all their other games, you do have to admit the playcalling in the passing game was maddeningly conservative through the first half of the season. They really weren't letting him do very much (as opposed to Luck, Griffin, Tannehill and Weeden), but in recent weeks they've been opening up the playbook and Sidney Rice and Golden Tate are both playing better. Especially with rookie quarterbacks, the second half of the season is more important to the evaluation than the first, and Wilson's only been improving.

[Brent]

Ryan Lindley

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Caulibflower

Having seen all their other games, you do have to admit the playcalling in the passing game was maddeningly conservative through the first half of the season. They really weren't letting him do very much (as opposed to Luck, Griffin, Tannehill and Weeden), but in recent weeks they've been opening up the playbook and Sidney Rice and Golden Tate are both playing better. Especially with rookie quarterbacks, the second half of the season is more important to the evaluation than the first, and Wilson's only been improving.

i dunno. i think the playcalling was partly to blame, but there were plays where wilson was automatically coming back to the checkdown (either he couldn't see the primary, didn't make the correct read, or just didn't make the throw for some reason). the worst part was, for a guy who's pretty mobile, he was refusing to run. there were plays he'd throw a 2 yard dump rather than take the wide open 15 yard run for a first. then later, he'd be unable to complete a pass more than 6 yards downfield and drives would stall as soon as he missed one receiver. i won't even get into the sheer number of deep 'jump' balls throw in golden tate's direction (not sure again if those were the plays that were called, or if wilson just dramatically overestimated tate's ability to play wr/have athleticism, so i've tried not to completely blame him for making the throws).

again, i totally get that he's a rookie, and a pretty raw one. there's certainly some degree of baby steps in getting him up to speed, given that he started out at a disadvantage in making reads downfield. and i do think he's improved from week 1. but, at least prior to the miami game, i had zero faith in his ability to get the ball into the end zone on a sustained drive. think back to the... shoot... arizona or st louis game, maybe? when he had 7 consecutive tries from inside the 5, and wasn't able to get the ball into the end zone. iirc, only one of those plays was a run, the rest were poorly thrown passes. that series seemed really indicative of what i expected out of wilson for the first half of the season. capable of moving the team, incapable of doing it when it mattered. *shrug*

i like him as a player, and i hope he keeps improving. but i've spent most of the season really glad that he wasn't on my team this year.

[papa burgundy]

Originally Posted by Caddy

Are the 9ers fans winning the most annoying fanbase award this season?

I think the Niners fan base has been one of the most annoying for a few years running now. They've just started to pop up more, because when a team starts to win their fans get that much more annoying. If you think it's really so bad here, you should check out the official 49ers message board. It's non-stop insecurity and paranoia about their own players there.

btw .. I'm a Niners fan.

[FUNBUNCHER]

LOL!!

Too bad no one has any recent memory of the SKins being relevant.
Wait and see what happens the next time Washington wins 10+ games in a season.

HTTR

Hard to be humble when you're hungry.