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Old 11-17-2012, 08:34 AM    (permalink
rawdawg
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post
Flucker can still get drafted very late in round 1. He'll play RT in the pros or possibly OG. He is not a LT prospect. the Texas A&M OT's are both far better prospects and can both play LT. Joeckel is a top 5 prospect while Matthews is a top 10 prospect.
Chance Warmack is the star of the Alabama OL and probably will go top 10. Jones is next in line, a top 20 as an OC/OG.
I think Barrett Jones will wind up in the Jonathan Martin, Stefan Wisnewski range in the mid-2nd round. He's solid, but nothing more. Guys like Joeckel, Matthews, Warmack, and maybe even Fluker will get drafted ahead of Jones because he's not a special player. The team that drafts him will probably get 8-10 years of above average interior OL play from him, but the guys I mentioned all have probowl potential. And guys with that type of potential (realized or not yet) tend to go higher.

If the aTm boys, Fluker, and Lewan all come out, Barrett Jones may 8th or 9th OL off the board (also behind Warmack, Cooper, Thomas, and Fisher).
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Old 11-17-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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I think Barrett Jones will wind up in the Jonathan Martin, Stefan Wisnewski range in the mid-2nd round. He's solid, but nothing more. Guys like Joeckel, Matthews, Warmack, and maybe even Fluker will get drafted ahead of Jones because he's not a special player. The team that drafts him will probably get 8-10 years of above average interior OL play from him, but the guys I mentioned all have probowl potential. And guys with that type of potential (realized or not yet) tend to go higher.

If the aTm boys, Fluker, and Lewan all come out, Barrett Jones may 8th or 9th OL off the board (also behind Warmack, Cooper, Thomas, and Fisher).
I think the thing with this year's draft though is it's very strong in trenches. You could see up to 5 OTs and 3/4 interior o linemen go in the first. Likewise you could have as many as 7/8 DEs and 5 DTs go in the first. This draft isn't very strong at the top with QBs and skill positions.

Realistically you could have only 3 QBs, 2 WRs, 0 RBs, 3 CBs, 0 safeties, 1 TE and 3 LBs in the first too. Each draft is relative to itself, so if the talent isn't there at other positions then guys playing at positions like OG and OC will inevitbaly get pushed up.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:23 AM    (permalink
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After watching more of Barrett Jones, I'm 99% sure he's going to fall alot father than people expect.

He struggled with the speed A&M gave him. It lead to TFL, holding penalties, and interior of the pocket was basically collapsed on numerous plays.

NFL evaluators are going to continue wondering if he has the athleticism to play in the NFL.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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There's a reason he's played every position on the line. If he was actually good he'd have stuck at one of the tackle spots
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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There's a reason he's played every position on the line. If he was actually good he'd have stuck at one of the tackle spots
So he's really a guard by trade but he should have stuck at tackle, that makes no sense to me.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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So he's really a guard by trade but he should have stuck at tackle, that makes no sense to me.
Exactly, especially considering you have such a big, mauling guy like Fluker at the right tackle position and maybe the best of 'Bama's linemen Kouandjio at left tackle. I'm not sure I love Jones as a OC in the NFL but I think he can be a very good OG who can play spot duty at any positon if needed. That sort of versatility on the interior is a much desired trait
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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Does Fluker have a little Cordy Glenn in him?

Last year everyone was saying that Glenn was too big, too slow and not athletic anough to play LT.

He has been very good at LT for the Bills this season.

Are we alll going to be saying the same thing about Fluker at this time next year.
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Old 11-30-2012, 07:38 PM    (permalink
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Does Fluker have a little Cordy Glenn in him?

Last year everyone was saying that Glenn was too big, too slow and not athletic anough to play LT.

He has been very good at LT for the Bills this season.

Are we alll going to be saying the same thing about Fluker at this time next year.
I literally HATED Glenn before the Senior Bowl last year. He really showed me a lot at LT then. Fluker won't be in the Senior Bowl, but if he comes out, he'll get to show his athleticism at the combine. Whether that's enough for teams to give him a shot at LT? I don't know. I do think Glenn did show to teams he could play LT during SB week.

But at this point, I'd take Fluker late 1st and let his ability and the depth chart dictate where he'll play. I could see him at any of LT, RT, or LG starting and playing well as a rookie. If you're a team like the Bears, you could use him at any of those positions (especially if Carimi takes to RG well the next 5-9 games).
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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Has he really been that bad in pass protection he looked fine against Michigan with the exception of one inside move.

People bash him for no feet but I see them and they are not that bad.

And like Glenn there is 0 chance that he gets bull rushed.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:58 AM    (permalink
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Has he really been that bad in pass protection he looked fine against Michigan with the exception of one inside move.

People bash him for no feet but I see them and they are not that bad.

And like Glenn there is 0 chance that he gets bull rushed.
He does have a few plays here and there where he gets beat by speed rushers. But those plays are getting fewer and further between. And his level of competition has been everything you can ask for. Did a great job vs. LSUs two pass rushers, has played against guys like Demontre Moore, Melvin Ingram, Jarvis Jones, Lemonier, Chris Smith, Jake Bequette, etc. I don't remember any of those guys dominating him or anything close to it.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:11 AM    (permalink
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I think the hardest thing to do when evaluating players in college is to look past how they "performed" in games. Often times guys will dominate others but it doesn't mean their skills will transfer to the NFL. Take the QB position as an example. Every year there are guys who put up video game numbers but simply aren't NFL caliber players. I'm not saying Fluker can be compared to that at OT but just because he hasn't been dominated doesn't mean he can turn that into success as a pro, particularly on the left side. I like his potential. You can't teach size and he has it in spades. However when you watch him play you see he has some flaws, flaws which experienced NFL linemen will take advantage of week in, week out. Glenn was such a big guy, however he had pretty light feet. Fluker is a plodder. I think he has a shot to be a very good RT in the right scheme, however I would only put him on the left hand side if injuries dictated it. Overall though I believe his highest upside is at RG
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:25 AM    (permalink
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Fluker is a freak. I agree that he isn't neccesarily "light on his feet", but he is going to frighten people in the pre-draft process. He has mammoth size but he carries his weight way better than people think. Absolutely freakish strength but is way more athletic than people give him credit for. He will not show up looking like Andre Smith, he may not strike a lot of people as a prototypical LT and I understand why but I honestly think he could play there. RT is his best fit without question though. He can pass block and has all of the tools to be succesful at it in the pros, but he will be a dominant run blocker no questions asked. He is a freak and is only going to get better.
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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I can name a ton of really good LTs in the NFL who were to big an plodding to play the position.

Andrew Whitworth
Max Starks
Cordy Glenn
Roger Saffold
Donald Penn

There has to be something said for being so much stronger than the guy you are playing against.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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I literally HATED Glenn before the Senior Bowl last year. He really showed me a lot at LT then. Fluker won't be in the Senior Bowl, but if he comes out, he'll get to show his athleticism at the combine. Whether that's enough for teams to give him a shot at LT? I don't know. I do think Glenn did show to teams he could play LT during SB week.

But at this point, I'd take Fluker late 1st and let his ability and the depth chart dictate where he'll play. I could see him at any of LT, RT, or LG starting and playing well as a rookie. If you're a team like the Bears, you could use him at any of those positions (especially if Carimi takes to RG well the next 5-9 games).
It makes little sense to me that there isn't a place for juniors and redshirt sophomores to showcase their skills against each other.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:32 PM    (permalink
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Is there really a big difference between LT and RT at this point? This is a passing league. Most teams have multiple pass rushing options. Even if they don't, the star rusher for every team flips sides. If Fluker has trouble with the speed rush at RT, teams will find out and put a speed rusher over him every play.

Fluker isn't light on his feet, but he positions himself pretty well, has very long arms, and like has been said is strong as an ox.
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Old 12-01-2012, 05:41 PM    (permalink
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Is there really a big difference between LT and RT at this point? This is a passing league. Most teams have multiple pass rushing options. Even if they don't, the star rusher for every team flips sides. If Fluker has trouble with the speed rush at RT, teams will find out and put a speed rusher over him every play.

Fluker isn't light on his feet, but he positions himself pretty well, has very long arms, and like has been said is strong as an ox.
I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think the value of the big, strong RT is that he affects how the QB feels frontside pressure and because of that you don't want that guy getting bullrushed easily. For that reason alone, Fluker might have more value on the rightside.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:14 PM    (permalink
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I agree with pretty much all of this. I do think the value of the big, strong RT is that he affects how the QB feels frontside pressure and because of that you don't want that guy getting bullrushed easily. For that reason alone, Fluker might have more value on the rightside.
Yeah, definitely value is as a RT. And like I've said, I think he can be a good OG. But I also think he can play LT if necessary.
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Old 12-01-2012, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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Side note - but Barrett Jones has not looked impressive at all. For a guy whose got all the size you could want from a Center, he's been getting no leverage, standing almost straight up that last play. There are times when you use angles and body position, and other times when you have to fire off low and use your hands. Looks like he's just trying to be a wall and not push anybody backwards.

Bama's line as a whole is straight bliss from a running back's perspective though.


Fluker has looked ok, but make no mistake... Bama is going left.. and they don't care who knows it. I'd grade Fluker mid-2nd round, but i doubt he lasts past the early 2nd. I think his footwork has been pretty good this game, but i haven't focused on him every play.

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Old 12-02-2012, 12:20 AM    (permalink
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I am a fan of his.

But he looked very OGish today. He just did not control the edge in the passing game today.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:13 PM    (permalink
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I thought Fluker played very well late in the season.

He dominated Stephon Tuitt in the National Championship game and many speak of him as a 1st round pick.

He is an ELITE athlete for a man at 6'6" 350lbs.

I think he can play RT.

But I think he could be a Carl Nicks type of OG. You cannot teach a man to be this big and nasty.
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Old 01-16-2013, 02:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by JohnCandy View Post
I thought Fluker played very well late in the season.

He dominated Stephon Tuitt in the National Championship game and many speak of him as a 1st round pick.

He is an ELITE athlete for a man at 6'6" 350lbs.

I think he can play RT.

But I think he could be a Carl Nicks type of OG. You cannot teach a man to be this big and nasty.
Definitely benefits from Matthews and Lewan staying in school but regardless i like him a lot. As you mentioned being big and nasty isn't a bad combination. My guess is he could get some interest from where teams like the Rams, Chargers and Bears are picking.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:36 PM    (permalink
JohnCandy
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I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 PM    (permalink
JohnCandy
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JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:37 PM    (permalink
JohnCandy
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JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.JohnCandy is kind of a big deal around here, people know him.
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I think the Bears will look at him at LG.

Trestman demands pass protection and a firm middle of the pocket.

Kromar has worked with huge OGs [Nicks and Evans]

Fluker reminds me of Nicks both in his power but his shocking athletic ability for a 350lbs. man.
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Old 01-16-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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So JohnCandy, do you think the Bears will look at him at LG?
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