The Official Training Camp thread.

[BeerBaron]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...coming-friday/

Cardinals expected to make their starting QB pick on Friday.

Morgan thinks that Kevin Kolb has the edge; the fact that it’s even close underscores the mistake that the Cardinals made by trading for and then paying Kolb.

Kevin Kolb has the edge.

Kevin Kolb has the edge.

Kevin Kolb has the edge.

Have fun getting fired after this season everyone on the Cardinals staff.

[Giantsfan1080]

Whisenhunt should be fired on the spot if he picks Kolb to start.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Whisenhunt should be fired on the spot if he picks Kolb to start.

They just will not admit how badly they got raped on that trade. They were bent over the negotiating table and ass ****** by the Eagles with how much they gave up in trade and then paid Kolb.

[Giantsfan1080]

It's a sunken cost. Yea they got butt-raped but still dildoing yourself in the butt to make it seem better is asinine.

[niel89]

Seriously Kolb is just bad man. Go with Skelton and see if he can be a guy moving forward. It's not like they are going to complete with Kolb ever.

[A Perfect Score]

We all know Ryan Lindley is the answer in Arizona. He'll be starting before the season is out.

[Ness]

Kolb might get the starting job out of the gate, but I wouldn't be surprised if he's benched after two games and they just go with Skelton. I wonder how the reps distribution has been going in the practices.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by A Perfect Score

We all know Ryan Lindley is the answer in Arizona. He'll be starting before the season is out.

At least Joshy gets the franchise.

[nobodyinparticular]

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Whisenhunt should be fired on the spot if he picks Kolb to start.

It's not like they have Russell Wilson on the bench right now. John Skelton and Ryan Lindley are just as bad if not worse. At least Kolb has the tools to get it done if he could just get his head out of his butt for a few drives.

The Cards might as well try to see if they can jump start Kolb some way somehow before tossing him to the trash. The opportunity cost is minuscule.

Then again, Kolb is just scared spitless on the field....

[Hines]

I just wrote this in the Steelers main board. The first four picks of our draft class will be making little, if any at all, impact this season. The best rookies will be a 5th round scat back and an undrafted punter.



Well, it looks like our 2012 draft class won't be making an immediate impact like we all would have hoped.


1) David DeCastro- Hurt in the third preseason game and will not likely be back until around Thanksgiving. Should finish up the year strong and back next year even stronger.

2) Mike Adams- Loved the pick in this spot and believe he will be a great LT, but learned he needs more time. His second year should prove to be a lot better.

3) Sean Spence- Was REALLY coming on and showed why the coaches loved him. That freak accident might derail his career for good. Sucks because I was really looking forward to him after being down on him during the time we selected him,

4) Alameda Ta'Amu- Very raw and needs a lot of work. Good thing Steve McClendon is looking as good as he is. Needs another year.

5) Chris Rainey- Stud in every sense of the word. He'll be a dynamic player for us offensively and on special teams. Can't wait to see him when the games matter.

7) Toney Clemons- Was the favorite to win the 5th WR job, but was very inconsistent and will probably either be heading to our PS or someone else's. I hope our's because I like his potential a lot.

7) David Paulson- Looks to make the team while Saunders is cut. Could be a nice little find for us in the later rounds. I like his receiving ability.

7) Terrance Frederick- Hasn't stood out or gotten beat too much. Could be the fifth CB, but I could see the Steelers upgrading him.

7) Kelvin Beachum- PS bound.


UDFAs Drew Butler, Robert Golden, and Adrian Robinson could all make splashes and the team this year, but Golden got hurt last night and might be headed to the PS and Robinson is still very raw. Long term, this draft and free agent crop can be VERY good, but the immediate return isn't as good as I expected it to be.

Ryan Lee is a sleeper to watch out for next training camp. I believe he gets his name on the depth chart. He's a nasty SOB.

[BeerBaron]

Losing your first three picks to injury isn't good at all. And honestly, unless more injuries strike or the o-line is hellishly awful, I'd keep DeCastro on the sideline to ensure that he's 100% next year. No need to rush a guy back from a knee injury.

Also, Rainey has been quite the pickup and will be something the Steelers haven't had since Willie Parker's heydayL a truly dynamic running back. I liked him as a 3rd rounder ala Dexter McCluster so getting him in the 5th was nice.

[Hines]

Adams isn't hurt anymore. He's just not ready to be a LT in the NFL right now. Needs to get more technique work done and get stronger. I believe next year his coming out party will happen. Seems that will have to be the case for the whole class.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by Hines

Adams isn't hurt anymore. He's just not ready to be a LT in the NFL right now. Needs to get more technique work done and get stronger. I believe next year his coming out party will happen. Seems that will have to be the case for the whole class.

I actually liked the original plan I heard for him right after draft time: Make him the RT and flip Gilbert to the left side.

I wasn't a big fan of Adams as a LT before the draft because, like you said, he needs a LOT of polish to get there. Maybe getting banged up when he did will be beneficial so he can develop as a backup swing tackle for a year.

[Hines]

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

I actually liked the original plan I heard for him right after draft time: Make him the RT and flip Gilbert to the left side.

I wasn't a big fan of Adams as a LT before the draft because, like you said, he needs a LOT of polish to get there. Maybe getting banged up when he did will be beneficial so he can develop as a backup swing tackle for a year.

Agreed. I read that Adams has been playing some RT, so he could ultimately stay there with Gilbert at LT.

[LonghornsLegend]

Originally Posted by Hines

I just wrote this in the Steelers main board. The first four picks of our draft class will be making little, if any at all, impact this season.

Not that I know the trends as good as you do, but isn't this very typical for Steelers draft classes? Typically they take guys and groom them for larger roles in year 2 or 3 anyway.


Adams was largely seen as a raw player, tools to play LT but expecting it right away was asking a lot. I felt he would have made sense in Detroit, but none the less I like the pick for the longterm.


Rainey does look like a steal though, he's the type of gamebreaker that your happy to have who can do a bunch of things for a team. For what he'll provide that's tremendous value via a 5th.

[Hines]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Not that I know the trends as good as you do, but isn't this very typical for Steelers draft classes? Typically they take guys and groom them for larger roles in year 2 or 3 anyway.


Adams was largely seen as a raw player, tools to play LT but expecting it right away was asking a lot. I felt he would have made sense in Detroit, but none the less I like the pick for the longterm.


Rainey does look like a steal though, he's the type of gamebreaker that your happy to have who can do a bunch of things for a team. For what he'll provide that's tremendous value via a 5th.

Yes, that's what the drafts normally look like, but with 2 top OL picks, a nickle LB, and a NT people actually thought could start, it's rather disappointing. The long term potential is great, though. If anything, I expected DeCastro and Adams to make an impact and both will be on the sidelines much of 2012 due to rawness and injury. Oh well.

[BeerBaron]

Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend

Not that I know the trends as good as you do, but isn't this very typical for Steelers draft classes? Typically they take guys and groom them for larger roles in year 2 or 3 anyway.

That's typically true for their defensive players, as it takes that long just to get acclimated to LeBeau's scheme.

But we've seen quite a few of their offensive draft picks end up with playing time right away. Pouncey and Gilbert pretty much started right away (although Gilbert was a case of injuries iirc,) and DeCastro and Adams were slated to start this year before injuries.

[BeerBaron]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-ankle-sprain/

Michael Brockers will miss a month with a high ankle sprain.

[K Train]

i figure this is worth revisiting now...highlighted some of my favorite posts

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

The Colts getting a winning record? I very much doubt it. Luck is going to be a good quarterback, but taking the Colts from 2 wins to 9+ wins is too big of a step. Especially with their current roster.

Originally Posted by K Train

Im not gonna argue too much, but with the two TEs they have, and reggie wayne being the foundation of the offense i do think luck can put together a decent amount of wins. Their defense is very meh but they can generate a pass rush.

If you look at their schedule, jags and titans x2 could each be a sweep. I could see either team giving them fits but i also could see them being easy-ish wins (for anyone really)

Vikings
Browns
Dolphins
Bills
Jagsx2
Titansx2

all fall under what i would consider very winnable games. A QB can go a long way for a 2 win team. Curtis Painter is a guy that gets you 2 wins with the roster, Peyton Manning was a guy that would get you 12 wins with that roster, i dont see any reason why a rookie andrew luck couldnt be a guy in the middle of that and squeeze out 8-9

Originally Posted by TheRubberDuck45

This is blowing my mind. The colts are BAD. Unless andrew luck starts playing both ways, BC apparently he's that good, they are not going to win 9 games. Id say 6. MAX.

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Dude, can it. There were few people with as realistically high of expectations of Luck as me for the last two college seasons and through this draft season.

But he, like any rookie QB who has ever played the game, is far, far, far more likely to end up with a losing record this year. That Colts team didn't "earn" the right to draft him by being so awesome at every position but QB. The o-line is still shaky, I don't trust Donald Brown for ****, their pass catchers outside of Wayne are mostly rookies and they're going to be implementing a whole new defense.

I think they win about 4-6 games and are looked at as a team on the rise headed forward after this year. That is my prediction.

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

Yeah, this talk of the Colts earning a winning record is beyond moronic. They'll win 4-6 games while being a team clearly on the rise, much like the Panthers last year.

Originally Posted by K Train

beyond moronic??? lets take it easy there, turn arounds are much faster than they used to be i dont know when the panthers became the jumping off point for turning a team around.

Lions without stafford=****...with stafford they make the playoffs
Colts without manning=****...with manning they win 12 games a year
Falcons before ryan after vick=****...with him they go from 3rd overall to playoffs
saints before brees=****...with him they go from nothingness to superbowl contender
cards before warner=****...with him goes to the superbowl as the worst playoff team ever
vikings before favre=****...with him goes to the NFC championship
bengals with those ****** QBs post palmer=****, draft dalton with a low ceiling to play marginally well...playoffs
even bengals back with kitna=pure ****, with palmer they have a playoff team

good QB play can go a LONG way, even somewhat decent QB play can get you an 8-8 record, not sure thats a moronic theory

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

You're picking out exceptions when the overwhelming majority of rookie QBs end up with losing records.

Neither Stafford nor Peyton led their team to the playoffs as rookies. Hell, Peyton only won 3 games.

Brees and Favre are stretches, as both were veterans going to new teams. Brees had made a pro bowl and Favre is a GOAT candidate to many people. Extreme stretches to use them. Even Warner barely counts, as he was brought into backup Leinart and didn't make that Superbowl right away.

I don't know what it is about the internet in general, but exceptions seem to become the rule. If one guys does one thing while 99 others failed, suddenly anyone remote like the one guy who succeeded is compared to him.

I don't bet, because I know as well as anyone that anything can happen in the NFL, but I'll all but guarantee you the Colts do not approach a winning record this year. I doubt any of the teams starting rookie QBs headed into week 1 do.

Originally Posted by K Train

you guarantee the dont even APPROACH a winning record? jeez

with favre and brees my point was they went from AWFUL QB play to pretty good QB play, lets not act like either were a sure thing either, brees was coming off a serious shoulder injury and was not the master of the position he is today and favre was approaching 40 years old. And with the bengals, while palmer was hurt they were awful, then they got a high pick in green and dalton, but even with a good supporting cast and good defense dalton only had to play kinda well. All im saying is you are saying he cant and wont be an exception to this rule when really its all about the QB play and if he does come out and play well, pretty much as well as expected by the majority the colts can very well be a competitive team. Could they be like the panther last year? a bad win record but clearly on the rise....sure, but i did think the panthers were competitive last year and a few games could have gone either way. The NFL South is much tougher than the AFC south, i dont think the colts can just be counted out, they could easily be a second place team in a division like that

Originally Posted by K Train

btw i think caldwell was a terrible terrible head coach, a QB even if hes a rookie and a good coach can go such a long way to success. Remember the niners were bad just the year before they became NFC favorites all because of harbaugh? he didnt exactly clean house on what we saw as a less than stellar roster with painfully average QB play. Not saying pagano is that guy, but i definitely think hes going to be better than caldwell

I do think both luck and RG3 are going to find some success as rookies, theres been bad teams with good QB play and good coaches go 8-8 before i just dont get how the thought of them even approaching that is out of the realm of possibility or "beyond moronic"

Originally Posted by SuperPacker

No one is saying he can't do that. But saying he's going to carry possibly the worst team in the league to a winning record, sounds very stupid when you actually think about it.

Originally Posted by BeerBaron

No one has "eliminated the possibility." Common sense and precedent just say it's just ludicrously unlikely. And then the examples you cited, which were the vast minority of cases where a rookie/first year starting QB "turned a team around," usually had other mitigating factors beyond just the QB.

Originally Posted by scottyboy

that's the stupidest thing i've read in a while.

Do people realize that this colts defense was awful last year? Their Oline leaves PLENTY to be desired. They have a rookie head coach. Their secondary is brutal.

Even if Luck goes for 5,000 and 40, the defense will just give up 6,000 and 45 in the air. People need to realize that it's such a stretch for this team to go 8-8 because the team in itself, is not very good.

This was great banter a few months ago, its obvious that the NFL is changing dramatically and rookie QBs while they have their struggles are finding success whether its Luck and RG3 just showing unreal ability or Russell Wilson being consistent and safe and winning games

[BeerBaron]

Yes, yes, predictions gone awry. What of it?

[K Train]

haha well with all the andrew luck on tv right now i couldnt wait to multi quote the **** out of this thread