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Old 12-04-2012, 11:52 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56 View Post
Another thing I want to point out is the fact that the NFL is so pass heavy now that this to me isnt all that impressive, taking in account the team he plays on throws the ball 80% of the time... That being said he is having a great year but when looking at how records that have stood for 20 years(Marino's Yards and TD's, Rice's Yards and TD's) when you look at when those records were set in the time of workhorse backs and power football is what made those impressive.

But if you are throwing the ball 80% of the time no wonder how these records are falling.
I don't care what anyone says, a WR approaching 2000 receiving yards is highly impressive. Some of you are getting carried away with the whole "well the game has changed so that isn't impressive anymore" logic. Yes it's obvious passing numbers are trending upward big time but it takes an incredible player to top 20 TD's, 1900 receiving yards, or 140 receptions. I don't care what era it's in.


I guess to each his own.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:00 AM    (permalink
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They should make a distinction with these records. Kinda like baseball does with the deadball era or steroids era. It's hard for me to appreciate any kind or record post 04. When the league first started this anti defense, anti running game agenda.

It's the same with these sack numbers.. yearly we have guys on the verge of breaking the record. This year Smith should break it, with Watts and Miller tight behind him. It's just hard for me to appreciate these records. Be it with Manning in '04, Brady in '07 and on.. Brees, Rodgers. I recognise they are fantastic players in this league. But the numbers they putting up should have an asterisk next to them. Because the league is not the same from when I was a kid, in the late 80's and into the 90's. The differece in the rules is so significant.. Sometimes I watch these games, and I think it's easier to sling it the NFL than it is in college. There for sure is no more rookie learning curve. These guys come in now and are a threat to throw for 4000 and 25td's yearly.

Same goes for WR.. They are fantastic in this league. But I think its unfair to look at these numbers Nd compare them to guys from history. Because it's really a different game now.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:26 AM    (permalink
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IMO the skill position players are more skilled than ever before.

In the '80s and '90s, HS and college QBs and WRs didn't attend 7 on 7, or QB camps during the summer.
QBs and WRs have taken infinitely more reps at their position and are receiving far better coaching.

It's not the rules that are making Brees/Rodgers/Brady/Peyton so prolific.

As for WR numbers, they're about what they were 15-20 years ago. THey haven't suddenly exploded off the charts.

There was no Calvin Johnson in the 1980s. Or ever. And if there were he would have single handedly destroyed every NFL secondary he played against.
I don't care how much hand checking DBs used to be able to do, unless you tackled Megatron before the ball arrived, no DB is capable of matching up with him one on one for an entire game.

Yes the game has changed, but it hasn't changed enough to invalidate what CJ is on the verge of accomplishing.
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:36 AM    (permalink
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IMO the skill position players are more skilled than ever before.

In the '80s and '90s, HS and college QBs and WRs didn't attend 7 on 7, or QB camps during the summer.
QBs and WRs have taken infinitely more reps at their position and are receiving far better coaching.

It's not the rules that are making Brees/Rodgers/Brady/Peyton so prolific.

As for WR numbers, they're about what they were 15-20 years ago. THey haven't suddenly exploded off the charts.

There was no Calvin Johnson in the 1980s. Or ever. And if there were he would have single handedly destroyed every NFL secondary he played against.
I don't care how much hand checking DBs used to be able to do, unless you tackled Megatron before the ball arrived, no DB is capable of matching up with him one on one for an entire game.

Yes the game has changed, but it hasn't changed enough to invalidate what CJ is on the verge of accomplishing.
Good post. People massively overrate the changes that have been made to make offenses more prolific.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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IMO the skill position players are more skilled than ever before.

In the '80s and '90s, HS and college QBs and WRs didn't attend 7 on 7, or QB camps during the summer.
QBs and WRs have taken infinitely more reps at their position and are receiving far better coaching.

It's not the rules that are making Brees/Rodgers/Brady/Peyton so prolific.

As for WR numbers, they're about what they were 15-20 years ago. THey haven't suddenly exploded off the charts.

There was no Calvin Johnson in the 1980s. Or ever. And if there were he would have single handedly destroyed every NFL secondary he played against.
I don't care how much hand checking DBs used to be able to do, unless you tackled Megatron before the ball arrived, no DB is capable of matching up with him one on one for an entire game.

Yes the game has changed, but it hasn't changed enough to invalidate what CJ is on the verge of accomplishing.
I don't care how much bigger or more athletic you are, you are still playing against conditioned pro athletes. The fact that he could continue to be pressed and jammed up and down the field would of made a difference. On top of all that, there was no such thing as a defenseless receiver. You go over the middle, you are getting laid out. Ronnie Lott or even cheap shot artists like the chuck cecils of the world would have no fear of hitting a guy like Megatron. You going to tell me, that wouldn't be in the back of his mind? Things like that are little things that guys now don't even have to worry about. Nobody is scared about going over the middle anymore. Not like they used to be.

Your point on the QB's above s ridiculous, they all showed enourmous improvments in their numbers at that point. Take a look at drew brees for instances. That guy was already in the league 3 years, he was a bust, and they had drafted Phillips Rivers because he was such a bust.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

2004 happens, suddenly his QB rating shoots up by almost 40%, he shows improvments in every aspect of Qbing statistically, TD/INT ratio magically drop, he's more accurate, he's passing for ypp. Are you really going to try and tell me that was just because Brees suddenly became amazing? I mean people are writting off Sam Bradford in another thread, saying you know by 3 years. That was Drew Brees, prior to the rule changes.

Peyton Manning showed significant improvments as well. His INT% dropped significantly post 03.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...m?mobile=false

Manning was always amazing. But his numbers are visably better. He passed for 30 TD's once prior to 04. 04 happens suddenly he throws for 20 more td's than the year before. All the while his INT% drops by 2%..


Here us Culpepper for good measure..
http://www.pro-football-reference.co...C/CulpDa00.htm


You see the trend? Maybe I am missing something, and between 03 and 04 it wasn't the rule changes or enforment, maybe all these guys came into the league who were playing 7 on 7 drills in high school, and that is what changed everything.. maybe.. maybe you are right.

Here is an article on this exact matter. From 2008, but it still applies, and if anything things are even easier now for offenses.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...ing-game/6778/
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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On the other hand, should we now put asterisks on past defensive records because some of them will become impossible to beat with the new rules and all?

Sports change all the time. Should we put some asterisks on Gretzky's records in the NHL because there are now some capable goaltenders with bigger equipment?
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:50 PM    (permalink
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It's just incredible that if you include the end of last season, Johnson has 122 catches, 2199 yards in his last 16 games.

He's not only tied Studsill's record with 5 straight games of 125+ yds, CJ is also the first ever with 4 straight games of 140+. Move over Chris Johnson, we may have a new CJ2K.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Not a total believer in calling Jerry Rice, the greatest ever, 2 HOF QB's and longevity helped a lot in setting his records, however, I will add that Jerry played in a far tougher era as far as rules are concerned although the invention of the WCO by Bill Walsh, something other NFL defenses didn't have a clue initially how to stop, certainly also played a part in Rice's records.

Judging any modern player as far as records are concerned, is a complete waste of time. It is a totally different game played today, hardly even resembling the pre 2000 era.
Well, I don't think there is any denying he has the greatest resume for a receiver at least. Yes he was helped out by two Hall of Fame quarterbacks. And yes he played the game for a long time and was durable. I don't see how that should be held against him though. If anything, that should strengthen the argument for him as the GOAT.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:45 PM    (permalink
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Elway = GOAT, look at the pro bowl teams from 1999 to 2004.
The great QBs are just great, it's not a sudden rule change that made them that way.
Yes Brees simply improved his game. So did Peyton. It wasn't a change in rules that made the game easier for them.

In 1998, Cunningham threw for 3704/34 TDs/10 INTs. Steve Young; 4179/36 TDs/12 INTs. Testaverde had 3200+yds passing/29 TDs/7 INTs.

In 1999, Kurt Warner, Steve Beuerlein, Brad Johnson and Peyton Manning all threw for over 4K.
There's slowly been a de-emphasis in the run game in the NFL because of the priority on scoring because of the growth in the passing game.

If a passing team puts you in a 21-3 hole before the start of the 2nd quarter, running the football 25 times isn't going to get you back in the game.

DBs were still called for PI before the rules changes. I just think there are better QBs in the league than ever before, and more mediocre to poor man corners in the NFL nowadays.

It's a complete spit in the face to dismiss what guys are accomplishing now on offense as being completely a result of DBs being unable to clutch and grab downfield, which they still do anyway IMO.
They just can't be seen grabbing a WR when he's attempting to make a play with the football in the air.

Megatron would have dominated in any era because guys just wouldn't have been able to keep up with, or outmuscle him.

He's a physical mismatch now, but in a previous era where the average corner was 5'10, 180# and loathe to tackle, Megatron at 6'5, 240# would have put DBs on IR by himself.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:48 PM    (permalink
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Did Rice benefit from 2 HOF QBs? Most certainly. But what is striking is that during his 49ers career Rice played 24 games without Montana or Young as the starter. Grbac (9), Kemp (6), Bono (6), Moroski (2) and Cavanugh (1) made up the 24.

In exactly a year and a half's worth of games, Rice caught 134 passes for 2,177 yards and 23 TDs, and ran for one score as well. That's an average season of 89 catches, 1,451 yards and 16 touchdowns. Eighteen of those 24 games that he played without Montana or Young came during Rice's first or second season, or when he was 33 or 34-years old. In '95 and '96, playing at an age when most receivers start slowing down, catching passes from Elvis Grbac for 9 starts, and with Derek Loville and Terry Kirby at RB, Rice put up huge numbers of 122-1,848-15 and 108-1,254-8. A 40-year-old Rice in 2002 was still good enough for 92-1,211-7.

If we cut Rice's career in half and separated them into odd and even years, each one would still be a HOF career. In even-years alone Rice had 833 receptions for 11,934 yds and 94 TDs - all of which are more than Michael Irvin's career numbers in all 3 categories. Even-year Rice also had 8 1,000 yd seasons, 8 Pro Bowls, 6 1st team All-Pros, 3 times led the league in receiving yardage, won 2 Super Bowl rings and a Super Bowl MVP.

He's the GOAT, no doubt about it. Moss was more physically gifted but Rice's talent, consistency and work ethic took him to a whole different level. I think Megatron ends his career in the Top 3 ever.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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Another thing I want to point out is the fact that the NFL is so pass heavy now that this to me isnt all that impressive, taking in account the team he plays on throws the ball 80% of the time... That being said he is having a great year but when looking at how records that have stood for 20 years(Marino's Yards and TD's, Rice's Yards and TD's) when you look at when those records were set in the time of workhorse backs and power football is what made those impressive.

But if you are throwing the ball 80% of the time no wonder how these records are falling.
I would say that increase in passes thrown has been offset by the increased number of WR's playing (more 3,4 and 5 wide sets) and the increased number of routes TE's and RB's are running.

A lot of teams in the 80's and 90's threw the ball to two wide recievers and occasionally a tight end or running back. The 3rd WR or Slot WR hardly existed. You also didn't have nearly the amount of situational players that we have now.

What's incredible about Johnson is that he could easily finish the season with 20% more productivity than any other WR in the league. That's close to a Jerry Rice prime season.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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Elway = GOAT, look at the pro bowl teams from 1999 to 2004.
The great QBs are just great, it's not a sudden rule change that made them that way.
Yes Brees simply improved his game. So did Peyton. It wasn't a change in rules that made the game easier for them.

In 1998, Cunningham threw for 3704/34 TDs/10 INTs. Steve Young; 4179/36 TDs/12 INTs. Testaverde had 3200+yds passing/29 TDs/7 INTs.

In 1999, Kurt Warner, Steve Beuerlein, Brad Johnson and Peyton Manning all threw for over 4K.
There's slowly been a de-emphasis in the run game in the NFL because of the priority on scoring because of the growth in the passing game.

If a passing team puts you in a 21-3 hole before the start of the 2nd quarter, running the football 25 times isn't going to get you back in the game.

DBs were still called for PI before the rules changes. I just think there are better QBs in the league than ever before, and more mediocre to poor man corners in the NFL nowadays.

It's a complete spit in the face to dismiss what guys are accomplishing now on offense as being completely a result of DBs being unable to clutch and grab downfield, which they still do anyway IMO.
They just can't be seen grabbing a WR when he's attempting to make a play with the football in the air.

Megatron would have dominated in any era because guys just wouldn't have been able to keep up with, or outmuscle him.

He's a physical mismatch now, but in a previous era where the average corner was 5'10, 180# and loathe to tackle, Megatron at 6'5, 240# would have put DBs on IR by himself.
I am just curious, if anyone in the history of the league has had that much of a turn around in number, for someone who has started 10+ games the year before. Or the insane increase in numbers from 03 to 04.

As far as it the example of the team being up 21-3. And continuing to pass, of corset they will, why wouldn't they? Rules have been put into place, to make it easiser to throw the ball down the field. It's the exact point I am trying to make. Never in the history of football has it been more appropriate to throw the ball down the field, than to run the ball while being up with a sizeable lead. You have to, because its so much easiser to throw the ball around, that anyone can make a comeback fairly easily.

Who has Megatron put on the IR? There are still plenty of sub 6' cornerbacks in the league. All are shorter than him. He has not from a statistical stand point been the clear cut best WR in the leagu throughout his career. Yet, he has had that same size, and same physical advantage the entire time.

Your statement regarding the cornerbacks is ridiculous. So your telling me, that the rule changes have nothing to do with anything, its the QB's just better, WR just better. But some how the corners have devolved? That's ridiculous, they too are going to camps all year around, there are always defenses coming up with different schemes, studying film on guys looking at weeknesses. These rule changes happen we see an explosion of offense production particularly through the passing game, the exact part of the game that the rules that have beeb enforced or put into place would effect. Yet, its the QB's and WR that are just evolving faster than everyone else? How can you say that with a straight face.

What hasn't been mentioned either is the rules put into place that protect QB's, they don't play by the same rules as everyone else. I am not quite sure if I am getting trolled here or what, but I think to most people it is fairly obvious. I would also like to ask the question, if it wasnt a big deal, and the reals dont make a difference, why even enforce them? There must of been a reason why Bill Polian was so determined to get things changed, particularly with him running a heavily invested Offensively run organization. If it didn't make a difference why frantically try and change things at all?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:27 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Job Reborn View Post
On the other hand, should we now put asterisks on past defensive records because some of them will become impossible to beat with the new rules and all?

Sports change all the time. Should we put some asterisks on Gretzky's records in the NHL because there are now some capable goaltenders with bigger equipment?
Maybe? I did mention the deadball era in baseball, being distinguished from the steroids era. However, the 01 Ravens were playing under the same set of rules teams had played under for 30+ years. You wanna put an asterik next to that? Fine, but my point is simply that guys are putting up ridiculous numbers playing with rules that were clearly not in place by the players of the records they were breaking. I wouldn't be opposed at all to have things split up, just like chff had it split up in one of the links above.

My question is simple, how can can accurately compare players across generations that are playing a different game? The fundamentals foundation of the game is there, but after awhile, constants little tinkers start to make a very big difference and I think it is pretty damn obviouse particularly if you are a stat nerd as I am.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:39 AM    (permalink
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He should be having a ****** season for being on the cover of madden.
Finally, it can be put to rest. Whilst I guess a late injury that prevents him from breaking the yardage record or at least getting very high up on the list could be considered a bad luck occurrence, the season he's already had even if it ended tomorrow is a pretty lame 'curse'.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:00 AM    (permalink
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Just because rules are in place doesn't mean they're strictly enforced.
DBs still clutch and grab past 10 yards, they've just become more crafty in how they do it and are less blatant.

It's like holding by Olineman. There's holding by Olineman on every snap that technically could be called, but unless it's blatant, it rarely if ever is.

The point is Calvin Johnson is a dominant player now, he would have been a dominant player in 1983.
Some guys are those rare specimens who are blessed with God-given physical tools that aren't impeded by playing styles, different eras or changes in the rules.

It's ridiculous IMO to suggest Megatron would somehow be a lesser WR playing in the '80s and '90s.
Calvin Johnson is roughly 5# less than Mark Bavaro was in his prime, a TE who literally steamrolled secondaries and couldn't be tackled by a single DB, and CJ would have been faster than the majority of corners and ALL the safeties during that time.

Safeties would have had to play 40 yards off the LOS to contain him and it still wouldn't have worked.

The best equivalent I can think of for Calvin is Kellen Winslow when he played for the Bolts. Almost the same physical dimensions except CJ has elite speed. DBs didn't tee off on Kellen Winslow because it's just not that easy to do against a WR/TE who's that big that you're always running to catch up with, and he was too strong to try to clutch and grab without tackling him before the ball arrived.

THe rule changes may have impacted lesser WRs and TEs, but for the alltime greats it really doesn't matter.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:04 AM    (permalink
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BTW there are fewer great corners in the college ranks and the NFL.
I don't why that it is, but that's the case.

There aren't many guys who have the athleticism or skillset to shadow a WR and still turn in time and track the football.

It's a position that's been in decline for a while now. And it's not just the rules.
Deion wasn't a great corner because he held WRs. Nor was Rod Woodson.
Corners IMO just aren't as fundamentally sound in their coverage techniques as they have been in the past.
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Old 12-07-2012, 08:55 AM    (permalink
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Uh, and Calvin has been the clear cut best WR for the last two seasons.
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Old 12-07-2012, 09:04 AM    (permalink
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BTW there are fewer great corners in the college ranks and the NFL.
I don't why that it is, but that's the case.

There aren't many guys who have the athleticism or skillset to shadow a WR and still turn in time and track the football.

It's a position that's been in decline for a while now. And it's not just the rules.
Deion wasn't a great corner because he held WRs. Nor was Rod Woodson.
Corners IMO just aren't as fundamentally sound in their coverage techniques as they have been in the past.
One of the contributing factors is that coaches in high school and college are putting their best athletes on offense--and using more of them. So the developing players are all becoming wide receivers.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:31 PM    (permalink
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Deion wasn't a great corner because he held WRs. Nor was Rod Woodson.
But Darrelle Revis is.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Gotta go with Rice as far as touchdowns are concerned. Moss technically has the touchdown record, but Rice's 1987 season with 22 touchdowns in 12 games is a little more impressive to me.
I actually didnt even look into that and realize that Rice set that in 12 games, I agree actually then Rice still is the Golden Standard then.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:26 PM    (permalink
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I think something to consider that hasn't yet been brought up is that Rice played in the WCO during its earlier years when defenses still hadn't figured it out. There weren't that many teams running it until he was well into his career. Teams couldn't very well build to defend it because hardly anyone ran it.

While Rice's numbers definitely look unbreakable now, I think they will go down in the next couple of decades, although maybe not all by the same player. The touchdown and yardage records will be tougher to break than the receptions record.

After 6 seasons, Rice had 446 receptions for 7,866 yards and 79 TDs.

Still in his 6th season, Calvin Johnson has 452/7,300/54 and counting. Ahead of Rice's reception numbers, a little behind in yardage, but clearly behind in touchdowns.

After 6 seasons Fitzgerald had 523/7,067/59. While he was never on pace to catch Rice in the yardage or touchdowns categories, he had a strong lead in receptions, and still does, with 749 receptions in his 9th year to Rice's 708 after 9 seasons. Should Arizona find a way to start getting Fitzgerald the ball again, I could definitely see him catching Rice's reception mark. Another thing to consider is that Fitzgerald had just turned 21 when his rookie season started, while Rice turned 23 a month into his, thus essentially giving Fitzgerald a 2-year head start in the age department.

Johnson falls in between the two in the comparable-age department, turning 22 during his rookie year. He may have a better chance at breaking Rice's records due to the fact that he has continued to put up better numbers as his career has progressed and is now hitting his prime at only 27 years of age. Should he continue putting up the kind of numbers he is currently for, say, the next 6 years, he would be looking at something in the neighborhood of 1,100/ 16,000/110 at the age of 33. That would certainly put him within striking distance of the receptions mark and the yardage mark if he wanted to keep playing, assuming he still had the skills and desire.

While it is still very early to suggest that AJ Green is putting together a HOF type career, he does have the early start that would benefit him down the road when it comes to numbers. A lot of WR's don't start producing until they are 25-27 years old, and by then they have lost too much time to ever get up to elite status. Wes Welker is a perfect example. His last 6 seasons he has put together an incredible run with 646/7,169/35, but because he didn't put together good numbers in his first 3 seasons he will likely never work his way into the top 5 in any of the meaningful categories.

One thing, though, is for certain: Over the next decade or two, players from this era will fill most of the top 50 spots on the receiving charts. It is already happening. Steve Largent retired in 1989 as the all-time receptions leader with 819. He is now 21st on the list, with a half dozen guys approaching. I believe that in another 10 years 800 receptions will be typical career numbers for a starting WR rather than the exception.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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I have to disagree with projecting stats like you are... sure they are starting off great.

But a couple things are being assumed or overlooked.

1) QB Play...Stafford is not the most durable guy out there, and without him that is going to set the Lions back and will greatly impact production from CJ, Look at the difference in Fitzgerald with Warner and now today

2)Longevity... Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Johnson all have to play well into their 30's. Jerry Rice put up a 92 catch 1200 yard season in his 18th season...

I think with the unknown of QB play and the unlikely hood of a Steve Young type of situation(where the loss of a great QB is minimal because you have another HOFer as a backup) to have 18 years of GREAT production and injury free (Rice had one year, 1997) is so unlikely in today's game that i simply do not think rice's career numbers will be touched.


Sure single season records might go down but it is unlikely in today's game that players especially players at skill positions can play at a high lever for 20 years.


A couple perfect examples of this uncertainty is Barry Sanders, left the game out of nowhere, not do to injury or lack of performance. Terrell Davis' first 4 years were outstanding and if you were to have projected the production over lets say 10 years would have been #3 all time.

It is pure speculation and has no backing what so ever do to unknown variables

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Old 12-07-2012, 04:37 PM    (permalink
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If we're talking about just the numbers game, Calvin Johnson or any receiver would have to have a lot of things go their way just for a crack at some of the career totals Rice has accomplished. They'd have to essentially from day one, dominate and have circumstances beyond their control (organization, quarterback play, and durability) go their way for nearly twenty years. Even in this era. If the NFL goes to an 18 game schedule then maybe it makes it easier.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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I have to disagree with projecting stats like you are... sure they are starting off great.

But a couple things are being assumed or overlooked.

1) QB Play...Stafford is not the most durable guy out there, and without him that is going to set the Lions back and will greatly impact production from CJ, Look at the difference in Fitzgerald with Warner and now today

2)Longevity... Fitzgerald, AJ Green, Johnson all have to play well into their 30's. Jerry Rice put up a 92 catch 1200 yard season in his 18th season...

I think with the unknown of QB play and the unlikely hood of a Steve Young type of situation(where the loss of a great QB is minimal because you have another HOFer as a backup) to have 18 years of GREAT production and injury free (Rice had one year, 1997) is so unlikely in today's game that i simply do not think rice's career numbers will be touched.


Sure single season records might go down but it is unlikely in today's game that players especially players at skill positions can play at a high lever for 20 years.


A couple perfect examples of this uncertainty is Barry Sanders, left the game out of nowhere, not do to injury or lack of performance. Terrell Davis' first 4 years were outstanding and if you were to have projected the production over lets say 10 years would have been #3 all time.

It is pure speculation and has no backing what so ever do to unknown variables
I agree that it is speculation; I did not mean for it to come across sounding like it was a certainty or anything like that. And you are correct in your assertion that most players are retired by the time they are 35 or so, even if they are relatively injury free. That being said, my argument does have some merit.

I think the TD record is the safest of all of Rice's marks. With teams running more sets that use 3 and 4 wideouts, and TE's becoming used as passing game weapons more and more, it is harder for a guy to score 12-18 touchdowns than it used to be.

The yardage mark will also be a tough one, as it pretty much eliminates the player who is not a deep threat from consideration. 15 or 16 yards per reception would be necessary to break this mark, with at least 1500 receptions.

The receptions mark, though, I'm certain will go down. Just take a look at a guy like Marques Colston. Don't get me wrong, I like Colston. He is a solid receiver, he runs good routes, has a decent skill set, and is consistently productive. That being said, he has never made a Pro Bowl and will never be a HOFer, but he is on pace to put up 1000/12000/100 in his career by the age of 33 or 34, given that he plays that long and is relatively injury-free, which he has been thus far. If a guy like that can put up those numbers in today's game, then there is no doubt in my mind that a more talented guy can rival Rice's marks. While it is true that most guys are done by the time they reach 35, and most guys don't have an ace throwing them the rock for 20 years, you can't rule out the possibility, or even probability, that a guy, or even a few guys, could or will.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:06 AM    (permalink
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With 118 yards last night, still on pace for slightly over 1900. I don't think there is any way he doesn't get it, I think 2000 is honestly a realistic goal if he has 1 more huge game out of these last few.
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