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Old 12-07-2012, 11:58 AM    (permalink
Poz51
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Originally Posted by indyfan1985 View Post
Bad pick for the Colts. Give them the higher rated pass rusher LB Dion Jordan. He would give them a versatile pass rusher with great length that we do not have.
I actually have Barr rated higher, and although it will be interesting to see how they both truely measure out, is +2 inches and -5-10 pounds that much of a difference? I have Barr as a much more tenacious passrusher, who has fewer concerns IMO against the run and I think has a better feel for the game, Jordan is better in pass pro IMO, but if rushing the passer is the difference maker, I will take Barr at this point, although this is just my initial thoughts, a long way to go. The difference in current length is irrelevant IMO, unless they being looked at for the NBA draft.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by vidae View Post
I love that KC draft.
I'd love it even more if it were Buffalo's draft... At least Wilson in the first that is....

Last edited by Poz51 : 12-07-2012 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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I'd be fine with that...
You better be...
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:01 PM    (permalink
Poz51
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Originally Posted by Cigaro View Post
There's really no need for the Panthers to trade up. Lotulelei and Hankins have similar grades, and Joeckel is a legitimate option as well. We pissed away two second round picks to draft a player who may have been available at five, and even if not wasn't that much better than the other options. We have too many needs to hitch ourselves to a single player in that manner.
I would disagree in that I dont have Lotulelei and Hankins with similar grades at all. Star still produced constantly with double and triple teams all season, being the only guy worth blocking on Utahs D-line, and Hankins while drawing double teams had much more talent around him, and I think under-performed and actually am expecting him to drop once people start focusing on the tape. Maybe its because I just watched him against Wisconsin, in which he was physically dominated by one blocker most of the game. When he choses to be, he can be dominate, but then again, thats when he choses to be. Star IMO always choses to be. I think Hankins skill set is phenominal, but I worry about him when he starts collecting that check, and the season roles into November and fatigue starts taking over. If they sit pat, IMO the Raiders take Starr, and the Iggles take Joeckel. So IMO the trade is much better than the other options, but that is my opinion (I like talent and production more than talent and potential).
As for having too many other needs; that is something I can sink my teeth into. Makes alot of sense, my question to you is what are your top needs for the Panthers?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by ArkyRamsFan View Post
GO RAMS!!
Dear ArkyRamsFan;3203276,

I appreciate the response, and while I have no more time right now to respond I will soon, and look forward to it. Please check back, I look forward to our impending conversation...

Sincerely,
Poz51
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:38 PM    (permalink
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FANTASTIC KC draft!!
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Poz51 View Post
Dear ArkyRamsFan;3203276,

I appreciate the response, and while I have no more time right now to respond I will soon, and look forward to it. Please check back, I look forward to our impending conversation...

Sincerely,
Poz51
Poz51,

Good to hear from you. I anxiously await your reply to my post.

BTW have you ever considered the similarities between the Rams and the Bills. Seems both teams have a lot of same pro's and con's.

P.S. Where did you get the numbers 3203276 from?
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:06 PM    (permalink
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I'm not as high on Nassib as other but wouldnt complain about landing Manti
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Old 12-07-2012, 06:23 PM    (permalink
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Te'o falling to Buffalo and Syracuse's QB becoming our QB of the future......

Why do I feel like you must live in my area? :p

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Old 12-07-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Poz51 View Post
I would disagree in that I dont have Lotulelei and Hankins with similar grades at all. Star still produced constantly with double and triple teams all season, being the only guy worth blocking on Utahs D-line, and Hankins while drawing double teams had much more talent around him, and I think under-performed and actually am expecting him to drop once people start focusing on the tape. Maybe its because I just watched him against Wisconsin, in which he was physically dominated by one blocker most of the game. When he choses to be, he can be dominate, but then again, thats when he choses to be. Star IMO always choses to be. I think Hankins skill set is phenominal, but I worry about him when he starts collecting that check, and the season roles into November and fatigue starts taking over. If they sit pat, IMO the Raiders take Starr, and the Iggles take Joeckel. So IMO the trade is much better than the other options, but that is my opinion (I like talent and production more than talent and potential).
As for having too many other needs; that is something I can sink my teeth into. Makes alot of sense, my question to you is what are your top needs for the Panthers?
Where do I begin?

Essentials:

DT - D. and R. Edwards have done a solid job this year, but they're bandages on a gaping wound. They're also both 30+. Hardy, Johnson and the surprising Alexander all need help from the interior of the D-line to increase their effectiveness.

RG - Hangartner started there this year. He was mediocre. Once Kalil went down he shifted to C and we've had a revolving door there. A good RG (or LG and switch Silatolu) would make a world of difference.

LT - It's sad to see, but Gross isn't the player he used to be. He's the wrong side of 30 and he's being paid like an elite player. Bell is doing a fine job at RT so there's no need to shift Gross their either.

FS - We don't have one. Nakamura is awful. After him it's STs players. Godfrey isn't the best SS either, but he's going to be tough to shift on the contract Hurney gave him.


Gravy picks (Positions I'd like to improve/if the player is BPA it's a no-brainer):

TE - I'd really like a complete TE to offset Olsen. Newton and the Panthers have been at their most effective when playing the 2 TE set. Someone that can block well and catch the ball would be nice. At the moment we only have Barnidge (who can catch) and Hartsock (who can't block).

CB - Gamble, Norman, Thomas are the top three. I can't see Munnerlyn staying (nor should he). We certainly need a 4th guy (or a 2nd guy and bump everyone down depending on talent), but it's something that the Panthers can wait and see on.

WR - There's no elite WR for Newton to throw to. Smith isn't the same guy he was 2 or 3 years ago. LaFell is stepping up, but his inconsistency makes him a #3 rather than a #2. Behind him is a host of guys that haven't done much.

OLB - Beason is going to have to shift to WLB if he wants to start, Kuechly is the better player. Davis is 30 and has had his knee re-constructed 3 times. Anderson is a JAG and should be a cap casualty. The Panthers have struggled to seal the edge against the run and also have had very little pass rush from the LBs. If there's a great OLB available I'd be tempted - NOT in the first though!

K - You don't tend to draft these guys, but the Panthers sorely need a reliable one.


So as you can see. In my opinion there are at least 7 positions that could do with an upgrade. We traded our 3rd round pick for Alexander last year (which has proven to be a bargain) so that limits our options here. Trading away a whole host of picks, both present and future, would hamstring the team.

I happen to think that Star is much better than Hankins, but he's not going to change the franchise on his own. At #5 the Panthers should wait and see. If Star and Joeckel are gone then you shop the pick to a team needing a QB (they always get over drafted) or you just go off your draft board. Hankins wouldn't be a deal breaker with the new rookie salary cap.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:53 AM    (permalink
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Seems a little high for Cordarrelle at the moment, but I love the guy and the rest of the draft is great, so what the heck!
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:22 PM    (permalink
Poz51
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Originally Posted by ArkyRamsFan View Post
Poz51,

Permit me to comment on your Rams draft with a simple word....NOOOOOOOO!!....and hell no. My reasoning is as follows:
I appreciate the reasoning

1.) I agree with you that this could be the year that Fish finally goes OL in the first round, but this is ONLY because he has multiple picks in the first round. If he didn't he would not draft an offensive lineman.
With as bad as the offensive line has performed from what I have seen so far, you still think he would refuse to make it a priority and address it in the first round? I have not seen all the Rams games and will watch intently tomorrow, as I think the Bills defensive line is finally starting to live up to their potential. At this point do you think guard or tackle is more likely? I get the history of Fisher and Oline in the draft, but dont you have to see the result on the field and say: "Maybe this is the time for change?"

2.) There is next to no way in Hades the Rams take TWO OL in the first round.
I am sure that it will not happen, but like many poor personnel choices before by numerous other teams, I think it is silly, and not addressing the oline early in the draft proves foolish in the long run and stunts young quarterbacks development IMO, which is what I have seen with the couple of Rams games I have seen, not that I am the all knowing Rams guru. But that is me... Now again, maybe they have addressed some of the issues and I am ignorant too it, and in that case, I usually defer to an well spoken fan such as yourself, or coordinatorO (in the case of the Ravens) as you'z guys make good points, clearly are intelligent, and watch more of your teams, while knowing your front offices more than myself.

3.) The Rams if anything are looking to trade DOWN with at least one if not both of their first round picks. So this trade up ain't gonna happen...
I am sure they are, seems like everyone is nowadays. This is just my opinion, but one elite olineman makes a significant improvement to the line, but two can tell you a ton about you skill guys and is a great evaluation method, which is the direction I was going in with the Rams first round in this mock. I relate it to the Jets, the oline with Mangold and Fergy, help out the guards, but show the true weakness of their RT, and with Holmes out and Keller at times as well, shows me the weakness at RB, and depth at WR, because outside of the RT breaking down, he usually has time, but outside of Kerley occasionally getting seperation, I have seen none. I am not a Sanchez guy, but IMO this season is by no means an 100% him issue, he does not have the tools around him.

4.) Speaking of your trade it makes little to no sense on multiple levels.

A.) We give up way too much for a team with as many holes as we have.
That might be true, although that seems to be the company line with every fan base. Again I dont know enough about the Rams to make any sort of arguement that would not sound ignorant. What are their needs in you opinion? Top 5 lets say...

B.) According to your mock we could've just stayed at 15 and picked a LOT like Eric Fisher and saved all of our picks. Huh?!? Is Lewan really that much better than Fisher? And, if so, is he worth what is tantamount to a King's ransom to get him?
Lewan IMO is a franchise type impact player, and Fisher has that type of potential, but needs work. Lewan I can see coming in and starting day one, Fisher not so much. Maybe in time. Rep for using tantamount in a response :) I do think coming out of this draft with Lewan and Womack would be a significant improvement to the Rams offensive line, like a score 20+ points against the 9ers impact.

5.) If (and it is a big 'IF') we were to trade up for an OL it had better be for a guy named Luke Joeckel.
I have loved Joeckel since last year, and would love to make that happen for ya'll.

6.) Many do not know this but the Rams actually like Rodger Saffold as their LOT. The only issue with him has been health but since he has returned to the starting lineup he has played well.
This I did not know and look forward to seeing in person tomorrow.

Since the Rams are in Buffalo this Sunsday I suggest you watch Saffold a bit and see how he does. You may be surprised....
I will, and I may...

Finally, this game against the Bills is a MUST win for the Rams for reasons beyond the usual trite stuff like playoffs or a winning record, etc. You see my lovely wife is FROM Buffalo ( grew up in Cheektowaga - try saying that 5x's quickly) and it is absolutely imperative that we dunk the Bills in the Niagara River or is it Lake Erie? Well, no matter. For continued peace in our home it is necessary that I..er..the RAMS win convincingly so all will be in harmony in the universe. If not, though, all **** will break loose! Besides with a RAMS victory over the hapless Bills, I will then have the opportunity to show my lovely better half just what a good and commendable sport I can truly be.
I am from Rochester, and went to school and lived in Buffalo for 6 years including living in "Cheektovegas" for 2 of those years. One of our favorite pre-dehydration games was Cheektowaga tongue twister, similar to saying it 5x's. Lol, dunking them in either is really one in the same. By the way, if your wife's (who must be a strong woman to still be a Bills fan) last name is Pfender I will bug out. Good luck tomorrow, I know how the "better half" can be, mine is a Skins fan...

P.S. FWIW... My Buffalonian wife couldn't really care less about this epic battle as she seems to despise only the Miami Dolphins.
Although the Patriots are my current most despised team, Miami has taken the cake for years, including a interesting parking lot altercation at the Ralph, and I understand her distain for the Phins as I still celebrate every victory, and get ill with every loss more than any other team.

Heh...whatever.

GO RAMS!!
I have noticed that their are similarities between our two beloved teams, fortunately yours has been on the winning side of the Superbowl, and I can only dream that one day the Bills will do the same, and yours again as well.
As for that weird number, I dont know, when I backspaced your post, it must have been part of your quote from the reply and I thought at that exact second for some reason that it was part of your name... Always in a rush... My apologies if any offense outside of general confusion resulted...
Having said that, good luck to the Rams tomorrow, I appreciate your insight, as well as all future correspondence!! Once again, I am out of time and hope harmony in your home is the result of the game regardless,

Poz51

I Billieve...
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:51 PM    (permalink
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The Eagles don't need an OT... Next year we have Peters, Mathis, Kelce, Watkins, Herremans. That's fine.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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I like the Banks pick to the Bucs but I would like Milliner better and would bet that we would draft him over Banks if given the choice.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Smash28Dash34 View Post
What Cigaro said. Star is not an elite enough prospect to trade 2 2nds for. We have way to many needs to be hitching our wagon on one player in this draft. Remember we don't have a 3rd in this draft either. We would have Star and nothing else until the 4th round.
Far enough, no more trade up for the Panthers. I do still contend that Hankins in the top 5 is a mistake.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by CashmoneyDrew View Post
There's basically a 0% chance the Titans take a WR in the 1st.
Who would you take at this spot in this mock?
Do you worry about Britt's off the field behavior, and/or potential actions?
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:42 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Miaoww View Post
The new Carolina GM would be fired on the spot.

We're not one superstar player away from competing. We lack depth AND talent. Can't afford to trade away picks
I do see Star as an impact player, but I do get the lack of picks issue with Carolina. How would Keenan Allen sound at 5? I know people like Hankins there, but IMO they would be better off, as I dont see him as a top 5 guy.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by RochesterRox19 View Post
Te'o falling to Buffalo and Syracuse's QB becoming our QB of the future......

Why do I feel like you must live in my area? :p
I had a feeling more people would call me a homer, and I could see why. Although I do not live in Rochester anymore, I am from there...
I could see Te'o going anywhere in the top 15, Patrick Willis fell to 11, and I think athletically he is superior to Te'o, and just about even in all other aspects. Although as a Bills fan I was "bangning on the table" for him, even if they had to trade up, the front office at the time was not listening. Anyway, if he can fall to 11, IMO Te'o falling to 11 is not that much of a stretch.
I like Nassib alot, he is one of my sleepers, pro-style offense, 3 year starter, improved every year, a field general with a strong arm, who makes good decisions, my #2 QB right now, I think he is terribly under rated right now, with many in the national media picking him apart with their infinite tunnel vision wisdom.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:59 AM    (permalink
Poz51
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Where do I begin?

Essentials:

DT - D. and R. Edwards have done a solid job this year, but they're bandages on a gaping wound. They're also both 30+. Hardy, Johnson and the surprising Alexander all need help from the interior of the D-line to increase their effectiveness.

RG - Hangartner started there this year. He was mediocre. Once Kalil went down he shifted to C and we've had a revolving door there. A good RG (or LG and switch Silatolu) would make a world of difference.

LT - It's sad to see, but Gross isn't the player he used to be. He's the wrong side of 30 and he's being paid like an elite player. Bell is doing a fine job at RT so there's no need to shift Gross their either.

FS - We don't have one. Nakamura is awful. After him it's STs players. Godfrey isn't the best SS either, but he's going to be tough to shift on the contract Hurney gave him.


Gravy picks (Positions I'd like to improve/if the player is BPA it's a no-brainer):

TE - I'd really like a complete TE to offset Olsen. Newton and the Panthers have been at their most effective when playing the 2 TE set. Someone that can block well and catch the ball would be nice. At the moment we only have Barnidge (who can catch) and Hartsock (who can't block).

CB - Gamble, Norman, Thomas are the top three. I can't see Munnerlyn staying (nor should he). We certainly need a 4th guy (or a 2nd guy and bump everyone down depending on talent), but it's something that the Panthers can wait and see on.

WR - There's no elite WR for Newton to throw to. Smith isn't the same guy he was 2 or 3 years ago. LaFell is stepping up, but his inconsistency makes him a #3 rather than a #2. Behind him is a host of guys that haven't done much.

OLB - Beason is going to have to shift to WLB if he wants to start, Kuechly is the better player. Davis is 30 and has had his knee re-constructed 3 times. Anderson is a JAG and should be a cap casualty. The Panthers have struggled to seal the edge against the run and also have had very little pass rush from the LBs. If there's a great OLB available I'd be tempted - NOT in the first though!

K - You don't tend to draft these guys, but the Panthers sorely need a reliable one.


So as you can see. In my opinion there are at least 7 positions that could do with an upgrade. We traded our 3rd round pick for Alexander last year (which has proven to be a bargain) so that limits our options here. Trading away a whole host of picks, both present and future, would hamstring the team.

I happen to think that Star is much better than Hankins, but he's not going to change the franchise on his own. At #5 the Panthers should wait and see. If Star and Joeckel are gone then you shop the pick to a team needing a QB (they always get over drafted) or you just go off your draft board. Hankins wouldn't be a deal breaker with the new rookie salary cap.
Roger that... I appreciate the feedback :) Very well done.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:02 AM    (permalink
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Seems a little high for Cordarrelle at the moment, but I love the guy and the rest of the draft is great, so what the heck!
Cordarrelle is a guy I like a lot, and right now in terms of general draft stock is high, but I have him as the 2nd reciever in the draft, and I think has the highest ceiling. I liked the mock for Miaimi, and like how they have postioned themselves in this draft. Thanks for the feedback!!
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:32 PM    (permalink
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I do see Star as an impact player, but I do get the lack of picks issue with Carolina. How would Keenan Allen sound at 5? I know people like Hankins there, but IMO they would be better off, as I dont see him as a top 5 guy.
It's a tough pick to make.

I don't really like Hankins or Allen at #5, but obviously you have to mock someone to them!

I'm sure the Panthers are hoping for a trade down (if they don't finish lower than #5).
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