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Old 12-07-2012, 08:51 PM    (permalink
Ness
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
CC is a HOFer. There's no serious argument for him not to be enshrined.
Pretty much this. There has also been rumors of media folk being rubbed the wrong way by Carter while he was playing. Maybe he wasn't the easiest guy to be around as a reporter or something. And perhaps this is why it's taking him so long for him to get in. On the other side you have Curtis Martin who is one of the nicest guys around, and gets in on the first try I think, which I was honestly surprised he got in so quickly.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:59 PM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin made it in his second season. The first year, 2011, Marshall Faulk made it. If Faulk wasn't in the same class its a good chance Martin would have been a first ballot.

A challenge for CC is Andre Reed and Tim Brown have similar stats and different voters would push for their preferred choice. I doubt CC makes it this year as its a tough year.

My geuss is Odgen, Allen, Strahan, Parcells and Haley.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Yes, hopefully Charles Haley finally gets over the hump.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:18 AM    (permalink
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Curtis Martin made it in his second season. The first year, 2011, Marshall Faulk made it. If Faulk wasn't in the same class its a good chance Martin would have been a first ballot.

A challenge for CC is Andre Reed and Tim Brown have similar stats and different voters would push for their preferred choice. I doubt CC makes it this year as its a tough year.

My geuss is Odgen, Allen, Strahan, Parcells and Haley.
CCis 4th alltime in reception TDs (only Rice, Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are ahead of him), and 4th alltime in receptions.

If either Reed or Tim Brown had both those numbers, they'd be in the HOF already.

BTW if you think CC is getting shafted, wait until T.O. is eligible.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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CCis 4th alltime in reception TDs (only Rice, Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are ahead of him), and 4th alltime in receptions.

If either Reed or Tim Brown had both those numbers, they'd be in the HOF already.

BTW if you think CC is getting shafted, wait until T.O. is eligible.
This is the only real problem I have with the HoF voters. Everyone can see this coming from a mile away. T.O. will probably be shafted by the voters and they'll shroud their reasons with "dropped passes" and "lack of Superbowl rings" when in reality if he misses out on first ballot it will almost certainly be because he's an unlikable diva and it will have nothing to do with his play on the field.
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Old 12-08-2012, 02:42 AM    (permalink
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Unfortunately that is how the Hall of Fame voting process probably works. The Hall of Fame has actually gone to great lengths I've heard to really pound it in the voters heads to leave any bias good or bad out of the decision making process. Of course I'm sure there are voters out there that maybe want their revenge or something.

Owens does deserve the Hall of Fame if you look at his on the field accomplishments, but I doubt he ever gets in because of his demeanor and some of the drama he was involved in during his career.

I have a feeling Moss gets in fairly easily though for some reason.
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Oh, my bad. Didn't realize SWDC was the pinnacle of class and grace.

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Old 12-08-2012, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
CCis 4th alltime in reception TDs (only Rice, Randy Moss and Terrell Owens are ahead of him), and 4th alltime in receptions.

If either Reed or Tim Brown had both those numbers, they'd be in the HOF already.

BTW if you think CC is getting shafted, wait until T.O. is eligible.
Tim Brown has 7 less receptions than Carter, so that category is a virtual tie. And he has over 1,000 more yards than CC. The only category that CC has a big advantage over him in is TD's. And I will give you that CC was money in the redzone. I think Chris Berman used to say, "All he does is catch touchdown passes."

Both Brown and Carter have significantly better numbers than Reed. To me they are a tier above him. Isaac Bruce also has better numbers than Reed, and similar numbers to Brown.

The one area where I see Brown having an advantage regarding stats is in the return game, with over 4,500 return yards and 4 TD's.

Another receiver that will be eligible next season is Marvin Harrison, whose numbers almost mirror Carter's.
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Old 12-08-2012, 06:27 AM    (permalink
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This is the only real problem I have with the HoF voters. Everyone can see this coming from a mile away. T.O. will probably be shafted by the voters and they'll shroud their reasons with "dropped passes" and "lack of Superbowl rings" when in reality if he misses out on first ballot it will almost certainly be because he's an unlikable diva and it will have nothing to do with his play on the field.
No, it'll be because they claim he's an unlikable "diiiiivaaaaaaa," not because he actually is.

Also, his play on the field is sickeningly overrated by jackasses on the internet who wish to hype up his play beyond belief for the sole purpose of trying to lend credence to their misguided notion that he must be suuuuuch a giant jerk team cancer selfish diva narcissistic asshole douchebag megalomaniacal Hitler reincarnate for all 32 teams in the NFL not to be beating down his door at all hours of the day, begging for him to play for them.

It's so transparent, and it's unbearable,

Here's the reality: He only did two things well as a receiver - the deep ball, and running after the catch. After 2003, he wasn't even the same player after the catch.

The hands part doesn't really bother me too much - Jerry Rice had some of the worst hands known to man and it didn't hold him back. Rice dropped 2+ passes nearly every game, and it was met with, "and there's something you won't see again, Jerry Rice dropping a ball" on just about every occasion. Somehow, through the media deifying him, fans were actually led to believe that Rice went from having the worst hands ever seen in a season (his rookie year) to the greatest hands of all-time. It boggles the mind. And it defies all DVDs from his time in the NFL.

But I digress.

As a route runner, Owens has always been limited. He couldn't separate off cuts. He either beat you with pure speed, or he didn't beat you.

He was also a piss-poor blocker and not courageous in traffic. And, despite his size, he was never physical. He was simply the most sculpted finesse receiver you'll ever see. The physique pretty much went to waste.

The funny thing is, the idiots in the media made the average idiot think Owens was a "complete receiver," while Randy Moss was the "deep ball niche" guy, when it was exactly the other way around. Moss has always been a terrific blocker and tough in traffic, in addition to being lethal down the field. The only issue he had was quitting altogether - during which times, he had no strengths at all. He would just go through the motions, as he did in Oakland and in 2010.

Owens, on the other hand, was the niche receiver. It was either a go, a deep post, a quick hitch, or a drag...or he's not the guy you want running that route. Countless interceptions were thrown Owens's way because he either shied away from contact or failed to separate on a hard angle cut.

Internet fans are just obsessed with statistics. What they don't seem to realize is offensive numbers have been getting more and more inflated to where they really don't mean anything anymore. I knew from the moment I saw Owens play in the preseason of 1996 that the 49ers had a future Pro Bowl receiver on their hands. Not once did I think I was watching the second or third greatest receiver of all-time, and I still don't think that's what I saw.

Meanwhile, there are like 30 receivers in the NFL right now on track to top 1,000 yards this year. There are going to be guys swarming near and past Owens on the leader boards in droves over the next 5-10 years.

Forget the numbers, evaluate the play on the field. He was great in San Francisco for a few years, and very good in Philadelphia and Dallas for a few more. He's a Hall of Famer, but a borderline one.
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Old 12-08-2012, 07:02 AM    (permalink
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You can't evaluate modern day WRs without looking at their numbers?
You think when the sports writers get together to make a case for or against a player, they don't look at the numbers???

WHat separates guys like T.O. from your average NFL wide receiver who has a career year is the ability for guys like Owens to duplicate that production year after year.
It's not about being great for a season. It's about greatness over time.

All I know is for the majority of his career, Owens IMO was a top 3 to top 5 WR in the league. Spin that however you want.

And unlike you I don't like using the word 'idiot' when people I don't even know IRL have opinions different from mine, but for you to characterize Jerry Rice as having 'some of the worst hands known to man', IMO practically invalidates any argument you might make in this discussion.

Since I know you can't document that statement with the slightest modicum of evidence, it's all your 'educated' opinion that Rice had trouble catching the football.lol

Besides if you're targeted 15 times a game, catch 10, drop 2 and the others were off target, does it even really matter??? Assuming your argument is correct, which I don't.

Also, if you know of another WR who ran more 9 routes than Randy Moss, please tell us. His forte was his deep threat and that's how he was used for the majority of his career. You never really saw Moss primarily working the intermediate routes like a Michael Irvin did.

The guy was always out wide trying to run past a cornerback.

None of the WRs playing today are going to be eligible or eclipsing Owens career numbers by the time T.O. becomes eligible for the HOF.

BTW, who playing today is even on track to overtake Owens??
Maybe Fitz. Maybe Calvin Johnson.
Andre Johnson may come close to T.O's total reception yardage and catches numbers, but he'll never come close to his TDs.

So because there might be 3 HOF WRs in the game right now,(can't include Julio or AJ just yet), that alone should keep Owens from HOF consideration??

That's crazy.
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER View Post
You can't evaluate modern day WRs without looking at their numbers?
You think when the sports writers get together to make a case for or against a player, they don't look at the numbers???

WHat separates guys like T.O. from your average NFL wide receiver who has a career year is the ability for guys like Owens to duplicate that production year after year.
It's not about being great for a season. It's about greatness over time.

All I know is for the majority of his career, Owens IMO was a top 3 to top 5 WR in the league. Spin that however you want.

And unlike you I don't like using the word 'idiot' when people I don't even know IRL have opinions different from mine, but for you to characterize Jerry Rice as having 'some of the worst hands known to man', IMO practically invalidates any argument you might make in this discussion.

Since I know you can't document that statement with the slightest modicum of evidence, it's all your 'educated' opinion that Rice had trouble catching the football.lol

Besides if you're targeted 15 times a game, catch 10, drop 2 and the others were off target, does it even really matter??? Assuming your argument is correct, which I don't.

Also, if you know of another WR who ran more 9 routes than Randy Moss, please tell us. His forte was his deep threat and that's how he was used for the majority of his career. You never really saw Moss primarily working the intermediate routes like a Michael Irvin did.

The guy was always out wide trying to run past a cornerback.

None of the WRs playing today are going to be eligible or eclipsing Owens career numbers by the time T.O. becomes eligible for the HOF.

BTW, who playing today is even on track to overtake Owens??
Maybe Fitz. Maybe Calvin Johnson.
Andre Johnson may come close to T.O's total reception yardage and catches numbers, but he'll never come close to his TDs.

So because there might be 3 HOF WRs in the game right now,(can't include Julio or AJ just yet), that alone should keep Owens from HOF consideration??

That's crazy.
Well said.

I think Owens is a better candidate for the Hall than Carter, Bruce or Reed. His numbers are better, and there was never any doubt once Rice left who the go-to guy was. He has some monster games, and was one of a few guys I can remember who could take over a game from the receiver position.

As far as players today reaching similar numbers to the guys we are talking about, many will surpass them on the receptions and yardage lists, simply because of the number of passes being thrown today. Marques Colston is a perfect example. A very good receiver, but not a star; he has never been to a Pro Bowl and I am confident he will never make the HOF as a player. Yet he is on pace to put up 1000/12000/100 if he plays another 6 years without significant injury. It is the touchdown numbers that will likely never be matched again, because offenses have put so much emphasis on spreading the ball around with multiple receiver sets and the increased use of tight ends as receiving weapons. That may be the thing that gets Carter in if he makes it; those 130 receiving TD's could look bigger and bigger down the road as we see today's stars retire without reaching 100 or more.
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:28 PM    (permalink
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You can't evaluate modern day WRs without looking at their numbers?
You think when the sports writers get together to make a case for or against a player, they don't look at the numbers???
Of course they do, but they also look at the numbers relative to that player's era.

Don Hutson's numbers don't look like much of anything these days...but they sure as hell did in the time in which he played.

Similarly, Owens's numbers came during an era in which a few other receivers were posting similar numbers. That'll be taken into consideration.

Quote:
WHat separates guys like T.O. from your average NFL wide receiver who has a career year is the ability for guys like Owens to duplicate that production year after year.
It's not about being great for a season. It's about greatness over time.
You're confusing the NFL Hall of Fame for the MLB Hall of Fame. In football, Gale Sayers is in the HOF. Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testaverde are not, and never will be.


Quote:
All I know is for the majority of his career, Owens IMO was a top 3 to top 5 WR in the league. Spin that however you want.
I agree. That doesn't make him first ballot.

Quote:
And unlike you I don't like using the word 'idiot' when people I don't even know IRL have opinions different from mine, but for you to characterize Jerry Rice as having 'some of the worst hands known to man', IMO practically invalidates any argument you might make in this discussion.
Believe me, I don't say this lightly. I say this as a guy who has the games and watched them, specifically evaluating all the players on the team from the 80s and 90s in recent years.

Rice would've been among the top 3 in drops every year in the 80s and 90s. As an aside, Roger Craig's hands may have been even worse. He literally dropped about 30 passes per season. These are things the modern fans/dementia suffering older fans have no clue about. And I support Craig for the HOF...but not because of his "pass catching ability."


Quote:
Since I know you can't document that statement with the slightest modicum of evidence, it's all your 'educated' opinion that Rice had trouble catching the football.lol
What would you consider evidence? I could create a video with countless Rice drops, but you'd just state something along the lines of the following:

Quote:
Besides if you're targeted 15 times a game, catch 10, drop 2 and the others were off target, does it even really matter??? Assuming your argument is correct, which I don't.
No, it really doesn't. That's why I said, "and it didn't hold him back." But Rice dropped 15 passes as a rookie (well, that's the number that's always floated around) and he only caught 49 passes that year. That's a nearly 1 in 4 drops ratio.

Blame it on rookie nerves all you'd like, or whatever - someone doesn't go from being so horrendous in an area to being the best of all-time in it. The very notion is just absurd.

And Rice didn't. My extensive DVD viewing makes this crystal clear. Rice always had major issues with dropping passes. He just made so many plays that it made up for it.


Also, people overreact to dropped passes so much it's not even funny. Dropped passes used to be a regular occurrence. Nowadays, with the glove technology, catching the ball has never been easier. The game has smoothed out enormously. In prior decades, drops and fumbles were a lot more common than they are today.



Quote:
Also, if you know of another WR who ran more 9 routes than Randy Moss, please tell us. His forte was his deep threat and that's how he was used for the majority of his career. You never really saw Moss primarily working the intermediate routes like a Michael Irvin did.
That's funny, because Michael Irvin had a higher career yards/catch average than Randy Moss. How do you think he managed that?

Yes, Moss was an all-time great deep threat. He was also a complete receiver.

750 of Moss's 973 career catches went for under 20 yards. That's a lot of non-deep ball receptions. In fact, take away every 20+ yard catch Moss ever recorded, and he'd still be tied for 33rd in NFL history in career receptions...with Michael Irvin and Charlie Joiner.

Who ran more 9 routes than Randy Moss? Hmmm, how about Bob Hayes? How about Wesley Walker? How about James Lofton?

NFL history didn't start in 1995, you know. There was a time when the value of a split end was almost entirely based on how fast/big of a deep threat he was.



Quote:
None of the WRs playing today are going to be eligible or eclipsing Owens career numbers by the time T.O. becomes eligible for the HOF.
Reggie Wayne is closing in on Owens's career receiving yardage total. So is Randy Moss, albeit at a snail speed to where he may be permanently out of football before he gets the chance.

But Wayne is about 3 seasons away. Andre Johnson and Larry Fitzgerald will likely be knocking on the door.

The influx of receivers at or near the top of the all-time list over the past 20 years is exactly why Cris Carter and Tim Brown have been kept out. The effect of the rule changes/development of better passing offensive systems hasn't been lost on the HOF voters.

Quote:
BTW, who playing today is even on track to overtake Owens??
Maybe Fitz. Maybe Calvin Johnson.
Andre Johnson may come close to T.O's total reception yardage and catches numbers, but he'll never come close to his TDs.

So because there might be 3 HOF WRs in the game right now,(can't include Julio or AJ just yet), that alone should keep Owens from HOF consideration??

That's crazy.
The general trend of receivers to put up similar numbers to Owens should be a cause for hesitation. You shouldn't just induct a receiver because of his numbers when they will be duplicated/surpassed in a short amount of time.

How many receivers do you want in the HOF? Does Marvin Harrison go in? Randy Moss and Terrell Owens? Reggie Wayne? How about Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt? I'm sure Hines Ward will get the Steelers treatment. That's an awful lot of guys from one era.

Again, when you narrow it down, I take Owens, but even as a huge fan of his, I don't think he's one of those players who gets in with flying colors. The only guys from this era I would put in are Moss and Owens.

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Old 12-08-2012, 05:15 PM    (permalink
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You're confusing the NFL Hall of Fame for the MLB Hall of Fame. In football, Gale Sayers is in the HOF. Drew Bledsoe and Vinny Testaverde are not, and never will be.
Are you comparing Owens' top level production at WR year after year to the average/above average careers of QBs Bledsoe and Testaverde?
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Are you comparing Owens' top level production at WR year after year to the average/above average careers of QBs Bledsoe and Testaverde?
I think his point was that Bledsoe and Testaverde put up some really nice numbers in their careers, but numbers alone won't get you in.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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I think his point was that Bledsoe and Testaverde put up some really nice numbers in their careers, but numbers alone won't get you in.
I don't think it's as easy as that and depends on the player and situation. Curtis Martin doesn't really have any signature games or moments that people really talk about. He was never a champion. I can't remember one year where he was unquestionably the best runningback in the NFL. He did put up consistently good numbers every year though and makes the Hall of Fame in his second try.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:37 PM    (permalink
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Ask any 49ers fan older than 30 and they know the Jerry Rice story.
The guy was very inconsistent his first couple of years and then suddenly the light came on for him.
Having a rocky rookie season should not call into question his hands throughout his career.
I've seen too many 49ers SBs, specifically the Bengals/SF SB where on the final game winning drive Rice caught every single pass thrown in his vicinity. Clutch play after clutch play.

Jerry Rice may have flaws as a football player,(I don't know what they are), but his hands aren't one of them.

Yes there are going to be, or there should be, several WRs from this era who end up in Canton.
Harrison/Owens/Holt/Bruce are all HOFers in my book. Is that a lot?? I don't think so.

More QBs from this era are going to end up in the HOF too. Is that too many? Of course not.
Greatness shouldn't be limited by a quota.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:43 PM    (permalink
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Jerry Rice had some pretty good hands. Personally I thought Carter had better hands. But Rice had some good ones. A lot better than average. His rookie year he dropped a ton of passes though.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:47 PM    (permalink
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I cab see Sapp getting left out because of the amount of lineman they're already going to put in. Gotta weed the field down somehow.

As to too many receivers or Quarterbacks, that's how the game is now. The most dominant players in the league should get in. And today's game is dominated more and more by QBs and their favorite receivers.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:16 AM    (permalink
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I think that somewhere along the line the voters got this idea in their head that receivers and running backs were the beneficiaries of the guys in the trenches who "actually did the work" and therefore it has become very difficult to get in, especially for receivers. They almost seem to have put a special emphasis on making sure that linemen get in every year.

Personally I think Owens and Moss are absolutely deserving. Carter and Harrison I'm on the fence with; if they get in, good for them, but I don't think it's a slam dunk. Bruce, Holt, Reed and Brown, to me, are on the outside looking in, and I would be surprised if the got the nod. I would be pretty upset if Hines Ward got in before any of the other players I just mentioned.

On the other end of the spectrum, a thought just occurred to me...what effect will the new brand of football have on running backs getting into the hall? Touches are at an all-time low right now, and backs are not climbing the charts very fast at all. Could it be that Adrian Peterson is the only back from this era with a legitimate shot?
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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A RB still has to put up some numbers or I think there are voters who would call Peterson one of those great NFL RBs who fell short on career production.

If AD stays healthy he's going to hit at least 12K rushing yards.
His reputation as the best RB of his generation should finish the deal for him.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:08 AM    (permalink
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I forgot about Ward. I think he'll get in sooner rather than later. I think it would be kind of disappointing if he makes it before Carter, Harrison, or Holt at least.

Someone else that hasn't been mentioned in this thread is Rod Smith. He was one of my favorite receivers, but alas I don't think he ever gets in.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:28 AM    (permalink
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Ask any 49ers fan older than 30 and they know the Jerry Rice story.
The guy was very inconsistent his first couple of years and then suddenly the light came on for him.
No. Not at all. His breakout game was MNF against the Rams his rookie year. He caught 86-1570-15 in his second year.

He still dropped a ton of passes that year, though. But nobody cared anymore because he was making plays.

The Jerry Rice "story" is just that - a story. It's not remotely accurate. The guy never stopped dropping passes, he just started making more plays. If you're curious, you should run a search in Google News Archives for "Jerry Rice dropped." Your eyes will open.

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Having a rocky rookie season should not call into question his hands throughout his career.
Sure it should. The worst drops ratio the league has ever seen for a WR should absolutely call them into question. More importantly, the truth should call it into question. The truth is on my 150 or so DVDs.

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I've seen too many 49ers SBs, specifically the Bengals/SF SB where on the final game winning drive Rice caught every single pass thrown in his vicinity. Clutch play after clutch play.
So you're basing this on one game (a game in which he DID have a drop, by the way)?

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Jerry Rice may have flaws as a football player,(I don't know what they are), but his hands aren't one of them.
His hands were his flaw.

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Yes there are going to be, or there should be, several WRs from this era who end up in Canton.
Harrison/Owens/Holt/Bruce are all HOFers in my book. Is that a lot?? I don't think so.
If Torry Holt makes the HOF, Canton should be burned to the ground.

No, paper wide receivers should not be selected for the Hall of Fame. Especially ones who were so unimportant to their team and such a product of a system that the year their team won the Super Bowl with the inaugural season of "The Greatest Show On Turf," he caught just 52 passes for 788 yards and 6 TDs, with 122 yards and 2 TDs coming in the season finale in a loss to the Eagles in which everyone was resting their starters. And who caught the game winning 73-yard TD against the Titans in the Super Bowl? The Rams' go-to WR, Isaac Bruce.

Bruce I could live with getting in. He was legitimate, having proved himself in 95-96. Holt was not. Holt fell off the face of the Earth once Martz was gone, for obvious reasons. He was the worst runner after the catch to ever play the position - he was thinking "dive to the ground" every time he caught the ball. When he caught the ball in open space, he was walked down quickly. He had no speed, couldn't get open deep without Martz's route combinations leading to blown coverages, and the only reason people think he was a "great route runner" is he played next to Isaac Bruce, who was one of the greatest route runners of all-time, and they looked similar in stature. People transferred Bruce's abilities onto Holt when Holt clearly did not possess them.

And who's next for HOF, Reggie Wayne? Wes Welker? Hines Ward? Donald Driver? Derrick Mason? You have to draw the line somewhere and just say, "this is a passing era...throw the numbers out the window. Who were the game changers?"

Randy Moss, unquestionably. And the next on that list would be Terrell Owens.

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More QBs from this era are going to end up in the HOF too. Is that too many? Of course not.
Greatness shouldn't be limited by a quota.
Too many quarterbacks do make the HOF. But that's the way it has always been because QB is considered the most important position in football. Wide receivers have never been more expendable.
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Old 12-09-2012, 03:34 AM    (permalink
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On the other end of the spectrum, a thought just occurred to me...what effect will the new brand of football have on running backs getting into the hall? Touches are at an all-time low right now, and backs are not climbing the charts very fast at all. Could it be that Adrian Peterson is the only back from this era with a legitimate shot?
Well what would you mean by this era? Post 2005 perhaps? 2000? 2010 and beyond? I consider Tomlinson practically in the same era as Peterson. Tomlinson was coming off his MVP season when Adrian Peterson was a rookie I believe. Arian Foster is certainly on the right track if he can keep up this kind of production (especially with his touchdowns) for a few more seasons and maybe win a Super Bowl in the process.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:37 AM    (permalink
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Here are my current predictions. Keep in mind that I accurately predicted all of the selections last year, and used to work at the HOF, so my opinion is worth much, much more than your opinion. :)

I think it's a safe bet that Strahan, Sapp, Ogden, and Allen will all make the HOF some day, but it's extremely rare to have more than 1 or 2 first-time selections in the same class (and more frequent to have none at all). It's really hard to make the call on this.

-In truth, I don't think Strahan is a first-ballot HOF as a DE. The last one to get the designation was Bruce Smith, and I'm just not convinced that Strahan is in that class. That said, this is a relatively weak class at the top, and I think Strahan gets the nod due to his tremendous media presence.

-I've long held that the exclusion of Cris Carter wasn't nearly the big deal that most people have made it out to be. In truth, his resume is the receiver equivalent of Curtis Martin (which makes the conflicting views all the more ironic). That said, I think this is the year for Carter. It takes a long time for receivers to get in, but I think Carter has waited long enough.

-Kevin Greene is another guy that has slipped between the cracks, but I think it's time for him as well. He was always a bit of a one-trick pony, but so was Derrick Thomas, who made the HOF years ago. With the 3-4 in vogue now, you can easily make the case that Greene was ahead of his time. With 160 sacks (3rd all-time, 1st for a linebacker), I think Greene is deserving of the call.

-I think, despite the prognostications that Sapp is hurt by being in the same class as Strahan, that he gets in as a first-ballot guy as well. Having a defensive MVP to your name carries a lot of cachet, and he's arguably the best pass-rushing DT in the history of the game. What could keep him out is his personality, but Michael Irvin didn't have to wait long, and neither will Sapp.

-Jerome Bettis. Bettis is a bit of a borderline candidate, but his tremendous media personality and iconic Superbowl will get him in eventually. The fact that he's clearly shoulders above Roger Craig and Terrell Davis will help him tremendously as well, as it seems like there is almost always a QB or a RB in every class.

So, that's it.
-Michael Strahan
-Cris Carter
-Kevin Greene
-Warren Sapp
-Jerome Bettis

This is a tough class to call, as it's deep, but not very obvious at the top. I could be very wrong, and I could make a strong case for Charles Haley, Ogden, and Larry Allen. We'll see.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:53 AM    (permalink
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<3

11 pro bowls, 7 all pros, 2 all decade teams, 1 super bowl ring. I really hope he gets in first ballot.

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Old 12-19-2012, 06:59 PM    (permalink
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Haterz, I forgive you.



Sapp won't be a 1st ballot HOFer. I don't think he's loved by the sportwriters.
Larry Allen should be 1st ballot. No Olineman wiped out DTs like Allen.
And the powers that be need to stop acting like Cris Carter didn't play in the NFL.
So much petty BS.
I would so eff the s out of her.
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