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Old 12-10-2012, 12:33 PM    (permalink
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Don't forget Tannehill is running the same offense he ran at A&M. His OC Mike Sherman was his HC in college. His biggest transition has been adjusting to NFL defensive coverages, not the offensive scheme run by Miami.
I think hiring Mike SHerman was a major part of the reason the Phins took Tannehill when they did.

By the way, IMO when a pro QB prospect described as 'pro ready', it's mainly a reference to their experience dropping back from center and simultaneously synch up routes while reading coverages in a backpedal.

It's a primary skillset needed for all NFL QBs, but not every college QB can handle the learning curve in the NFL. It's the big reason why previous spread QBs have bombed in the pros.

From a distance it seems like Indy is winning games in spite of Luck's mistakes, not because of his outstanding play. That's why it's hard for me to quantify or categorize his individual play as something exceptional.

There's a margin of error working in Luck's favor that I don't see for other rookie QBs.
When you really look at it, forget the rookie stuff, I don't think any modern NFL QB has had Luck's numbers playing for a team with average overall talent at best and a less than dominant defense and running game, and they were 9-4 after 13 games.

That's bizarre to me.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:06 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by crossroads View Post
His team is 9-4 after a 2-12 season last year. He is 7th in the league in passing yards, and first among rookies by a fairly large margin, and is second among rookie QBs in total touchdowns. He is leading an offense that is ranked 6th in the league despite having a running game that is ranked 22nd. And he currently has his team in the lead for the 5th seed in the AFC while having an absolutely porous defense and taking on more responsibilities than your typical rookie QB.
I agree with all the Luck supporters now.. Look at all the statistical categories Luck leads the league in. It's truely remarkable and I was so wrong about him.

He's first in INT's (he throws all of these with such amazing anticipation it's uncanny)

First in pick 6's thrown (I can't believe how efficient he's been here)

First in total turnovers (Not many guys can do this and still be 9-4 with absolutely nothing else around him.)

First in worst comp % for rookies (yes even the Enigma Brandon Weeden)

Second to only Brandon Weeden in worst QBR for rookies (What did you guys expect? Perfection? You can't beat Weeden all the time when it comes to these sorts of things)
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Man I really feel for all you suckers who actually watch games. Why waste your valuable time when you can just google "Andrew Luck NFL stats" to see exactly how much he sucks.

RG3 for MVP - of all QBs with 200+ throws he's 5th in completion percentage, 1st in ypa, 2nd in TD:INT ratio and 1st in QBR

RG3 >>>>>>> Brady, Manning and Rodgers because statzzzzz
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:28 PM    (permalink
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I agree with all the Luck supporters now.. Look at all the statistical categories Luck leads the league in. It's truely remarkable and I was so wrong about him.

He's first in INT's (he throws all of these with such amazing anticipation it's uncanny)

First in pick 6's thrown (I can't believe how efficient he's been here)

First in total turnovers (Not many guys can do this and still be 9-4 with absolutely nothing else around him.)

First in worst comp % for rookies (yes even the Enigma Brandon Weeden)

Second to only Brandon Weeden in worst QBR for rookies (What did you guys expect? Perfection? You can't beat Weeden all the time when it comes to these sorts of things)
Is there a reason why all of your posts in this thread are so antagonistic? i don't know why you had to respond in such a dickish way. Funbuncher asked for an argument for why Luck should be oroty, and since more than a few RG3 supporters have ignored or brushed off any arguments for Luck that aren't purely based in statistics I figured I may as well use stats to back-up Luck's candidacy. And even then, it's not nearly as strong of an argument for him as the ones people like Cudders have already presented several times in this thread.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:33 PM    (permalink
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If you need a convincing argument for Luck, just read Cudders' posts in this thread. Stop ignoring them.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:04 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by killxswitch View Post
If you need a convincing argument for Luck, just read Cudders' posts in this thread. Stop ignoring them.

Cudders didn't really make a positive argument in favor of Luck, it was more a defense of how he's played this season and why Luck's statistics from an analytical point of view aren't really that bad.

That's why I was curious to hear someone make the specific case for Luck deserving to win OROTY without comparing him directly to anyone else.

I wanted to hear what the points of emphasis would be, why Luck has had the most deserving season of any offensive rookie player in the NFL and merited the award.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Is there a reason why all of your posts in this thread are so antagonistic? i don't know why you had to respond in such a dickish way. Funbuncher asked for an argument for why Luck should be oroty, and since more than a few RG3 supporters have ignored or brushed off any arguments for Luck that aren't purely based in statistics I figured I may as well use stats to back-up Luck's candidacy. And even then, it's not nearly as strong of an argument for him as the ones people like Cudders have already presented several times in this thread.
Cause I'm sick to death of the lack of respect for what RG3 has done and I'm sick of nut suckery of the Andrew Luck crowd. There's absolutley NO excuse that can be made for him that hasn't been made by his apologists, yet every time I open this gd thread I see more crap excuses piled on to why Luck deserves a pass for every mistake he makes. If RG3 or Wilson had these sort of crap stats it would a completely different story. Heck even if the Colts were losing it would be a completely different story. Just because a team is not losing despite the so so season by their highly touted rookie does not give him a pass. Has he looked good at times? Sure... Has he looked like grease monkey sh*t at times too? YES, but not one of these guys hanging off Lucks nut fuzz have said anything of the sort... It's like excuse after excuse and basically a non factor or issue because "omgzzz he the best qb prospect eeeevvvverrzzz omg he can't be having a worse season than RG3 or Wilson because his team is 9-4 and his offense is so complicated so I'll make up stuff to show these idiots how good he izzz---Luck for MVP and HOF!!!).

I've now been able to watch 10 of his games now and while I agree he's done some amazing stuff, he's also made so many more "rookie" mistakes than the other main guys (and I don't see the scheme being that much more complicated as everyone else seems to). His problem is that he makes a lot of illadvised throws or he holds the ball too long that result in a negative play and the he's forced into airing the ball to dig himself out of a hole (which to his credit has done masterfully at times (but has also been very lucky as well).

RG3 has been amazing this year and has not had one game where he's looked like a Rookie. People joke about him being up there with Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and the lot (even though he's not there yet) but there's something to be said about what he's done statisticlaly this year as a rookie. If you're not amazed, you're not watching... And I can tell most people aren't watching because I keep hearing about all the bubble screens the guy throws...(sigh).
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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how the **** does RG3 not have enough respect? Jesus christmas. What do you want? For us to crown him? The entire media is all over his nuts. Nobody's saying he sucks or is over-rated. Like seriously, what do you want ?

this thread is more Redskins fans being insecure about RG3 and just bashing on Luck for no reason and not accepting any logical arguments for why people are saying Luck could/should be ROTY
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:25 PM    (permalink
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Duh...Because if you don't think RG3 is the RoY then you don't watch football. That's all that has been repeated throughout this entire thread.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Cause I'm sick to death of the lack of respect for what RG3 has done and I'm sick of nut suckery of the Andrew Luck crowd. There's absolutley NO excuse that can be made for him that hasn't been made by his apologists, yet every time I open this gd thread I see more crap excuses piled on to why Luck deserves a pass for every mistake he makes. If RG3 or Wilson had these sort of crap stats it would a completely different story. Heck even if the Colts were losing it would be a completely different story. Just because a team is not losing despite the so so season by their highly touted rookie does not give him a pass. Has he looked good at times? Sure... Has he looked like grease monkey sh*t at times too? YES, but not one of these guys hanging off Lucks nut fuzz have said anything of the sort... It's like excuse after excuse and basically a non factor or issue because "omgzzz he the best qb prospect eeeevvvverrzzz omg he can't be having a worse season than RG3 or Wilson because his team is 9-4 and his offense is so complicated so I'll make up stuff to show these idiots how good he izzz---Luck for MVP and HOF!!!).

I've now been able to watch 10 of his games now and while I agree he's done some amazing stuff, he's also made so many more "rookie" mistakes than the other main guys (and I don't see the scheme being that much more complicated as everyone else seems to). His problem is that he makes a lot of illadvised throws or he holds the ball too long that result in a negative play and the he's forced into airing the ball to dig himself out of a hole (which to his credit has done masterfully at times (but has also been very lucky as well).

RG3 has been amazing this year and has not had one game where he's looked like a Rookie. People joke about him being up there with Brady, Rodgers, Manning, and the lot (even though he's not there yet) but there's something to be said about what he's done statisticlaly this year as a rookie. If you're not amazed, you're not watching... And I can tell most people aren't watching because I keep hearing about all the bubble screens the guy throws...(sigh).
I've read most of the posts in this thread and I can't remember anyone saying that RG3 hasn't been great (possibly i missed something though) so I don't know why you think he isn't getting enough respect. Is it because people have described his offense as simpler than Luck's? It seems to me there are more instances of you (and a couple others) having a lack of respect for what Luck is doing on the field.

For the most part people in here have simply been trying to provide context to the stats being laid out because context is important. If you just want to go off of stats, there are like 40 receivers who are better than Larry Fitzgerald.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:37 PM    (permalink
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Redskin fans. We missed ya. Glad to have you all back.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:39 PM    (permalink
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I remember when Number 10 made everyone hate us Giants fans.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:43 PM    (permalink
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i miss the 'better and more productive' meme.
My favorite was "had a game for the ages"

That and when he wanted to meet up with LTGiants and fight him.

He knew his linebackers though.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why one has to be terrible for the other one to be good.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:49 PM    (permalink
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I don't understand why one has to be terrible for the other one to be good.
It's my biggest issue with comparison threads on this forum. We typically feel the need to dismiss one player to prop up the other. Why can't both be good?

Luck and RGIII are both great. In different ways.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:52 PM    (permalink
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It's my biggest issue with comparison threads on this forum. We typically feel the need to dismiss one player to prop up the other. Why can't both be good?

Luck and RGIII are both great. In different ways.
Exactly.

This bores me. NEW TOPIC.

Who feels better going forward: the Browns with Weeden or the Dolphins with Tannehill?

Both of those teams are really, really close to being serious contenders IMO.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:57 PM    (permalink
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I want to say the Dolphins for the following reasons:

1. Tannehill isn't 30
2. Because Browns
3. I like Miami's defensive coordinator and they have pass rushers

Although if you give Cleveland 1 or 2 pass rushers on defense and a WR or TE on offense, they suddenly look pretty good themselves.

Both teams are in tough divisions too. But I think Miami has a better chance bc Buffalo and NYJ are both meh, whereas the Steelers will always be the Steelers, the Ravens will always be the Ravens, and the Bengals look like an up and coming team as well.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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Exactly.

This bores me. NEW TOPIC.

Who feels better going forward: the Browns with Weeden or the Dolphins with Tannehill?

Both of those teams are really, really close to being serious contenders IMO.
I'm going to make this a thread.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:58 PM    (permalink
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And Joe Haden is the 2nd best CB in the league.
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:16 PM    (permalink
Caulibflower
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Originally Posted by jsagan77 View Post
Cause I'm sick to death of the lack of respect for what RG3 has done
Literally didn't read another word, because this is precisely why people continue to argue with you about the other rookies - you refuse to acknowledge or respect the significance of anyone else besides Griffin unless you're just making a caveat that you think will ultimately support your RGIII-for-OROTY angle.

Edit: went and read the rest of your post just in case it was different from the others, and it's just more talk about how people who try to make a case for Andrew Luck have a fetish for his nut fuzz.

Last edited by Caulibflower : 12-10-2012 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:01 PM    (permalink
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You guys seriously don't see the disrespect? Gimmicky offense, 7x% short throws (Despite Manning, Rodgers, and Brady having a higher percentage), all he throws is bubble screens, if luck had a run game like RG3, recievers bail him out, only makes easy throws, recievers are wide open, etc... All that stuff is meant to somehow discredit what he has done and create a false picture of why Luck is better than him (when most of that stuff isn't even near the truth--which is why I believe most in this thread watched a few early games and some highlight reels to form their opinions).

Then you bring up stats and somehow they don't matter (because of the above).

You guys are being way less objective toward RG3 than Luck and it's not even close.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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You guys seriously don't see the disrespect?
You seriously don't see the disrespect?

RGIII has improved his candidacy in the last few weeks more than Luck, and if I was going to put money down today, I think I'd probably put it on him. But the way you've argued for him over the last three weeks has not shown understanding of the game. Which is frustrating when the player you're stumping for deserves the award you want him to win. It just makes for bad forum discussion. You post like you literally want someone to close this thread after each of your last posts. You post like the conversation should be over.

This is a ******* forum, bro.

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Old 12-10-2012, 08:12 PM    (permalink
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You seriously don't see the disrespect?
Yeah, people normally act in response to as their being treated...

Look I loved Luck coming out and I still do. I agree that both guys have it all with respect to rookie QB's. Even if I wasn't an RG3 fan I'd still say Luck is on the outside looking in in this race because of so many things we use to measure a player (metric or intangible) such as QBR (Griff #1 in the NFL as a rookie), accuracy (RG3 is 5th in the NFL), YPA (RG3 is 1st in the NFL), TD:Turnover (Griff Stellar, Luck Not), taking care of the football (RG3's 10 fumbles are farce BTW a lot of those are botched handoffs or pitches the pitch man didn't catch but RG3 get's the tic), pocket presence (both have very good pocket presence), clutch play (both are very clutch), overall playmaking ability (both can make plays but Griff is the best dual threat player at the position ever IMO), toughness (Think Griff has this one), leadership (I'll take Griff over luck here but it's a preference thing).
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:26 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, people normally act in response to as their being treated...

Look I loved Luck coming out and I still do. I agree that both guys have it all with respect to rookie QB's. Even if I wasn't an RG3 fan I'd still say Luck is on the outside looking in in this race because of so many things we use to measure a player (metric or intangible) such as QBR (Griff #1 in the NFL as a rookie), accuracy (RG3 is 5th in the NFL), YPA (RG3 is 1st in the NFL), TD:Turnover (Griff Stellar, Luck Not), taking care of the football (RG3's 10 fumbles are farce BTW a lot of those are botched handoffs or pitches the pitch man didn't catch but RG3 get's the tic), pocket presence (both have very good pocket presence), clutch play (both are very clutch), overall playmaking ability (both can make plays but Griff is the best dual threat player at the position ever IMO), toughness (Think Griff has this one), leadership (I'll take Griff over luck here but it's a preference thing).
Are you seriously comparing Bob's pocket awareness with Luck's?! You can heap all the flowery, demagoguery praises onto him, but not that one.

Btw has he or will he play a team like the the Pats?
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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Griff is houdini back there. Again not a nock on luck cause he's good too but RG3 is elusive as hell.
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