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Old 12-10-2012, 03:04 AM    (permalink
ChiFan24
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Originally Posted by rawdawg View Post
I clearly see Jay Cutler when I look at Tyler Wilson, especially this year. Really struggled dealing with a poor OL. Didn't have more than 1 reliable receiver. Not much of a running game. He doesn't quite have Cutler's velocity, but his arm is pretty good. Like Cutler he has underrated mobility (don't think it's quite Ponder's, who is pretty mobile). Like Cutler he will make some questionable decisions, struggle with accuracy at times when throwing off his back foot, which he does way more than he needs to. I expect him to go in the 10-15 range like Cutler, sit for a little to start before taking over. And like Cutler, he needs a situation where he has some protection and talent around him in order to succeed. Despite obvious talent, he's not going to just make everyone around him better by his presence ala Luck, Manning, etc.
....Am I to understand that you think Cutler hasn't been successful the past ~3 seasons?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:51 AM    (permalink
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Here's a question: if you knew you were going to get a Jay Cutler or a very similar caliber player, would you draft him #1 overall if your team needed a QB?
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:42 AM    (permalink
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Jay Cutler's physical talent??
Hell yes.
It's the mental aspects of the game and his decision making that are sometimes less than desired.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:37 AM    (permalink
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Here's a question: if you knew you were going to get a Jay Cutler or a very similar caliber player, would you draft him #1 overall if your team needed a QB?
Yes. I don't think I'd really hesitate to pull the trigger on that pick.
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Old 12-10-2012, 09:17 AM    (permalink
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Jay Cutler's physical talent??
Hell yes.
It's the mental aspects of the game and his decision making that are sometimes less than desired.
That's Cutler too.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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Here's a question: if you knew you were going to get a Jay Cutler or a very similar caliber player, would you draft him #1 overall if your team needed a QB?
If I had a QB like John Skelton or Brady Quinn starting for me, absolutely. If I had a guy like Carson Palmer or Joe Flacco or Sam Bradford, no.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:02 PM    (permalink
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Here's a question: if you knew you were going to get a Jay Cutler or a very similar caliber player, would you draft him #1 overall if your team needed a QB?
This year absolutely. Not last year and maybe not in 2014. (jury's still out)
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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re-thinking a bit, and I think Matt Barkley compares pretty favorably to Andy Dalton. I suggested the comparison for Tyler Wilson, but really it's a better comparison for Barkley. I think I'll just amend my Christian Ponder-Tyler Wilson comparison by calling Wilson a stronger-armed, more aggressive/less consistent version of Ponder. With the size, athleticism, generally good (but sometimes streaky) accuracy and tendency to both save and sink plays by improvising, Ponder's a pretty good comparison. And I say that not meaning Wilson should go 12th, but that Ponder was such a huge reach that a guy with superior tools and a similar game is still a fringe first-round/second round prospect to me.

Edit: Wilson is more decisive, which I think is also a general advantage over Ponder, but it leads to him forcing plays. You like your quarterback to be aggressive, but just as I referenced in the main writeup, I think Wilson needs quite a bit of development discipline-wise before I'd trust him with an NFL offense. Ponder's almost the reverse - plays kind of timid.

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:05 PM    (permalink
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I bet Glennon's completion % would be over 60 if it wasn't for #80 at WR.
Agreed, but when #80 (Bryan Underwood) catches it, it usually goes for a TD.
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:17 PM    (permalink
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....Am I to understand that you think Cutler hasn't been successful the past ~3 seasons?
No. Maybe I should have said, "get the most out of him" instead of "succeed". There's no reason Jay shouldn't be a perennial 4500 yard passer in the NFL. The games Cutler has won with this offense around him have been flat out astonishing. He would be on the verge of 3 straight 10 win seasons, with an offense that has had 4-win talent around him the entire time, other than this year with Marshall.
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Old 12-10-2012, 08:50 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to echo something already said in this thread (and probably others). I think Glennon is going to go MUCH higher than anyone thinks right now. IDK, IMO, the kid just has a TON of ability.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:38 PM    (permalink
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Andy Dalton is well above Ponder as an NFL QB. Barkley is close to Dalton as a prospect though maybe less athletic and a little more sense of entitlement( which is something I find common is USC QBs lately).

For Wilson I kinda like the Cutler comp is alright. He doesn't have Cutler's arm (who does?), but it's well above average, and he takes chances that either end up really good or really bad.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:40 PM    (permalink
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Andy Dalton is well above Ponder as an NFL QB. Barkley is close to Dalton as a prospect though maybe less athletic and a little more sense of entitlement( which is something I find common is USC QBs lately).

For Wilson I kinda like the Cutler comp is alright. He doesn't have Cutler's arm (who does?), but it's well above average, and he takes chances that either end up really good or really bad.
I'm willing to give Ponder some more resources and time before making any judgement on him.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to echo something already said in this thread (and probably others). I think Glennon is going to go MUCH higher than anyone thinks right now. IDK, IMO, the kid just has a TON of ability.

Glennon has the big arm and big body that NFL teams love. I think he gets drafted high. Not sure of him as a top pick, but it will happen. He could be Carson Palmer (not really a bad thing) or Ryan Leaf. Think he falls in betweenhonestly.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:09 PM    (permalink
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I'm probably in the minority, but I think Dalton was clearly a better prospect than Barkley. I've just never seen what other people seem to see in Barkley. When I watch him, I see an outstanding college QB and a career backup in the NFL.
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Old 12-10-2012, 11:38 PM    (permalink
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Glennon has the big arm and big body that NFL teams love. I think he gets drafted high. Not sure of him as a top pick, but it will happen. He could be Carson Palmer (not really a bad thing) or Ryan Leaf. Think he falls in betweenhonestly.
I don't think Glennon will end up like Leaf. Leaf was a headcase, Glennon seems like a pretty even keeled guy. He is alot like Mallet - huge arm talent, same physical build and limited mobility outside the pocket but both possess the height to scan the field and deliver strikes anywhere on the field.

Landry Jones reminds me more of Carson Palmer. Both guys from big time programs and look the part. Palmer was more technically refined with his mechanics but that year behind Kitna really helped his development during his rookie season. Jones has had some big moments and is a good prospect but needs to work on refining his game. If he has a team around him like Palmer did with Rudi Johnson, Housmenzadah and Chris Johnson I think he could develop into a good starter. My main gripe with Jones is that he seems to rely to much on one target - he was very good with Broyles but struggled when he blew out his knee. This year it took him awhile to find the targets in his offense but once he did he got into a pretty good groove. Jones is getting really overlooked in this draft.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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•Shaky pedigree (Leinart, Cassel, Booty, Sanchez)

Funniest line in Scott Wright's write up of Barkley.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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I'm probably in the minority, but I think Dalton was clearly a better prospect than Barkley. I've just never seen what other people seem to see in Barkley. When I watch him, I see an outstanding college QB and a career backup in the NFL.
I agree with you about Barkley. I'm not seeing what other people see.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:00 PM    (permalink
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Glennon has the big arm and big body that NFL teams love. I think he gets drafted high. Not sure of him as a top pick, but it will happen. He could be Carson Palmer (not really a bad thing) or Ryan Leaf. Think he falls in betweenhonestly.
Glennon won't be anywhere near Ryan Leaf. He just doesn't have the personality. If anyone has that potential, it's Tyler Bray.

There are much better comparisons of guys that had the NFL prototypical build and failed.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:02 PM    (permalink
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•Shaky pedigree (Leinart, Cassel, Booty, Sanchez)

Funniest line in Scott Wright's write up of Barkley.
There is a lot of irony in that statement, because even though all of those guys didn't set the world on fire - all of them made it into the NFL. How many schools can claim basically every QB they have had (start) has become a starter in the NFL in the past 8? years? And a backup?
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:22 PM    (permalink
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Glennon won't be anywhere near Ryan Leaf. He just doesn't have the personality. If anyone has that potential, it's Tyler Bray.

There are much better comparisons of guys that had the NFL prototypical build and failed.
I know Leaf was just the first guy to come to mind.
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Old 12-11-2012, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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I think 4 QBs go in the top 12. Smith, Wilson, Barkley, and Glennon. I think if Bray comes out, he goes late 1st.
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