MVP as we head out of November

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Yes because his record is so stellar at 1-3 against teams with winning records.

The Vikings are 2-5.

The Vikings also have a loss to a team with a losing record. The Broncos don't.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by prock

I forgot that football wasn't a team sport.

It is, and a great QB is more valuable than a great RB, as evidenced by the fact that the best QBs often play for the best teams, while the best RBs very often play for bad and mediocre teams.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

Really shocked to see you bring Rodgers up in this thread but, no, his stats aren't right there with Brady and Manning.

He is averaging 40 yards less per game through the air than both guys. He has the same amount of TDs as Brady but

His ypa is also less than both and he has ONE less TD than Manning.

There are a few reasons why people may wish to put Rodgers into this discussion, but saying he has comparable stats to the other two is most definitely not one of them

^ Is that serious???? ^
I put Brady & Manning ahead of Rodgers.
But you're not seriously trying to bring up yards passing as the reason Rodgers is not right there with Brady & Manning, right?

Last I checked, points (touchdowns) were what mattered most in the stat lines.
Manning has 30, Rodgers & Brady have 29.
If that's not "close" to you, what is, in your opinion? Only all 3 with 30 exactly?

Also, in case you missed it in your yardage check, Manning has thrown 45 more passes than Rodgers (more than a game's worth), and Brady has thrown 57 more passes than Rodgers has.

You think yardage is more important? Then you like Brees, Ryan, Stafford and Romo ahead of Manning & Brady right, because those are your 1-4 guys in passing yardage?

Here's the deal: A lot of QB's have great numbers, and wins, right now. Many deserving MVP cases there.
But there's only one deserving RB right now, and that's why we all should endorse Adrian Peterson right now for MVP.

And coming off the wicked ACL/MCL tear, last game last year, that's added credit to the guy.
Plus you have the indusputed fact that every single defense that faces him has no respect for Samantha Steele's boyfriend's arm, yet AD still is on the 2K pace facing defenses with their sole focus stopping him.

VOTE FOR

[njx9]

"his stats are right there with brady/manning"
"you know, except for stats x, y and z."
"THE OTHER STATS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT MATTER. also, it should go to a running back, because he's the only good running back."

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

^ Is that serious???? ^
I put Brady & Manning ahead of Rodgers.
But you're not seriously trying to bring up yards passing as the reason Rodgers is not right there with Brady & Manning, right?

Last I checked, points (touchdowns) were what mattered most in the stat lines.
Manning has 30, Rodgers & Brady have 29.
If that's not "close" to you, what is, in your opinion? Only all 3 with 30 exactly?

Also, in case you missed it in your yardage check, Manning has thrown 45 more passes than Rodgers (more than a game's worth), and Brady has thrown 57 more passes than Rodgers has.

You think yardage is more important? Then you like Brees, Ryan, Stafford and Romo ahead of Manning & Brady right, because those are your 1-4 guys in passing yardage?

Here's the deal: A lot of QB's have great numbers, and wins, right now. Many deserving MVP cases there.
But there's only one deserving RB right now, and that's why we all should endorse Adrian Peterson right now for MVP.

And coming off the wicked ACL/MCL tear, last game last year, that's added credit to the guy.
Plus you have the indusputed fact that every single defense that faces him has no respect for Samantha Steele's boyfriend's arm, yet AD still is on the 2K pace facing defenses with their sole focus stopping him.

Your direct quote was "Rodgers stats are right there with Brady & Manning". Sure if you want to take the yards out of the equation (pretty sure yards are stats by the way) you can say they are there with Manning's (even though his ypa is nearly 0.5 better) but they aren't on a par with Brady's. They have the same TDs but Rodgers has double the INTs. You talk about scoring points as the most important thing, well not giving your opponents extra chances are pretty much as important.

As for Peterson, I have no issues with him being considered MVP, however his recovery from his knee injury has nothing at all to do with it. You wanna bring that up give him comeback player of the year, that's what that award is for

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Halsey

The Vikings are 2-5.

The Vikings also have a loss to a team with a losing record. The Broncos don't.

I don't really care that much either way, I just found it peculiar that you chose Manning's wins as the reason why he should be MVP, when he doesn't really have a signature win yet from this season. I'd generally prefer Manning not get the MVP award because he's already received one in his career where he kind of got it by default in a pick'em kind of scenario.

[Halsey]

I'm not saying Manning should win. I'm saying AP doesn't belong in the conversation with the top QBs for MVP. He's only being mentioned because many fans and media get bored of QBs winning it every year.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by njx9

"his stats are right there with brady/manning"
"you know, except for stats x, y and z."
"THE OTHER STATS ARE THE ONLY ONES THAT MATTER. also, it should go to a running back, because he's the only good running back."

HAHA!
Another great contribution from the brain of njx9!
Keep up the great work!

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

HAHA!
Another great contribution from the brain of njx9!
Keep up the great work!

He posted basically what you said in a nutshell.

You said the stats were basically equal

I said they weren't and gave examples

You basically said those stats don't count, only the stats that back your argument count

Then said Peterson should win MVP because he's the best RB and there are a few deserving QBs.

In that case, why not JJ Watt? He's the best down lineman by far in the NFL. Why not Calvin Johnson? He's the best WR in the NFL

[PackerLegend]

Where is the Tebowzzzz option??? Da **** is dis..

[xooberon]

How do people feel about JJ Watt winning it? It's an absurdly dominant season he's having, undoubtedly DPOY calibre. The best player (by a large margin) on one of the best teams in the league (he still managed to have a great game even last night). Without him would that Texans defense be any near as dominant, would it even be average?

[Ness]

I think Watt is starting to slow down just a little bit. Maybe. That and the Texans defense not playing as well lately probably excludes him from winning it at this point.

[xooberon]

I don't know about that, he was still awesome last night. It's not his fault that Antonio Smith was getting humiliated by Mankins and the secondary was playing terrible.

[yo123]

I'm changing my vote to Brady, because it's pretty ridiculous that he's losing by this much. He's on his way to putting up better numbers than he did a few years ago when he won the award unanimously. It's a two horse race with him and Manning at this point, with AD being about the best #3 candidate of my lifetime.

If the Vikings make the playoffs Peterson becomes the clear choice in my eyes.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

He posted basically what you said in a nutshell.

You said the stats were basically equal

I said they weren't and gave examples

You basically said those stats don't count, only the stats that back your argument count

Wow, there you guys go again.....

Look, and I will make this as basic as I can for you, and "him".

I said the stat of TDs is the most important of all stats.
Comprende?
Now if you want to disagree, go ahead and go out on a limb and say which is. No, you won't do that because you know better.

The passer rating is an accumulation of all the passing statistics. This just in.

As with touchdowns, Brady & Rodgers tied, their passer rating is tied as well.
Clearly, the 4 Int to 8 Int is part of that overall formula that has Brady right there with Rodgers at the 104 area.

Now you can pretend that the statistical difference between those 2 are night & day, that's fine. Or between Manning with his 30-10 to Rodgers 29-8. Go ahead.

Or you can go the route of Romo, Stafford, etc. and say yards are more important. Regardless, that's what the overall passer rating does.

Again, my ballot:

1. Peterson
2. Brady
3. Manning
4. Rodgers
5. Griffin

Let's see your ballot, tough guy njx9, or better yet, go ahead and throw some 8th grade girl insults out like you're used to doing instead of throwing some true football opinions out! Have a pair for once. Of your OWN and not someone else........ (not holding my breath)

[prock]

Originally Posted by Halsey

I'm not saying Manning should win. I'm saying AP doesn't belong in the conversation with the top QBs for MVP. He's only being mentioned because many fans and media get bored of QBs winning it every year.

Running backs can't be valuable? We may not have a great record, but we are also subject to some of the worst quarterbacking in the league. He is literally carrying the entire team. If we make the playoffs, he is easily MVP. If we even win 2 of our last 3, I think it's easy.

I would also vote Brady over Manning this year.

[AntoinCD]

But you said stats. You didn't say TDs or passer ratings, you said stats as in an accumulation of different metrics.

And TDs, while important only tell part of the story. If it's all about the TDs then why isn't Drew Brees in the conversation??? He leads the league in TDs...maybe the 18 INTs???

Every turnover decreases a team's chances of losing. So you telling me that Brady and Rodgers' stats are pretty much equal just doesn't hold water.

Brady has the edge in TD:INT ratio, yards, ypa, ypc, yards per game etc

Rodgers is equal in amount of TDs thrown

Those do not equate to being on the same level

But it's not just about stats. As a Packers' fan you kinda hope you're at least watching their games and Rodgers simply hasn't looked right a lot of the time

[Denver Bronco56]

Not to put fuel on the fire so to speak..

Adrian Peterson's only CRAZY thing about his season is that he is coming off of injury, let me explain.

His 2000 yard campaign is not nearly as impressive if you take the injury aspect out of it. OJ hit the 2000 yard mark in 14 games, Dickerson did in 15 games, CJ2K had 500 yards receiving to go with his 2000 yard rushing, Terrell Davis sat out approx. 2 whole games and still hit 2000 and 20 TD's.


Considering this the fact that he came back and is having success from a serious injury is another reason he is getting hype, but that same look at how he is playing after injury is negated because Manning's injury was far worse and is playing lights out also.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Not to put fuel on the fire so to speak..

Adrian Peterson's only CRAZY thing about his season is that he is coming off of injury.

That's not the only crazy thing!!! Are you serious?

Peterson is averaging SIX (6.0) YARDS PER CARRY.
Arian Foster is averaging 3.9 per carry even though teams have to respect Schaub to Andre Johnson.
Ray Rice, Doug Martin, Marshawn Lynch, Frank Gore, Alfred Johnson, Chris Johnson, are all averaging 4.something, as good as they are.

Adrian Peterson has 1600 yards rushing.
The next best has 12-something.....and 4 guys are in the 1200's....
That's a huge gap.

If you want to compare 2012 Peterson rushing numbers, than you better compare the QBs and passing numbers. As everyone should know, today's NFL is way more passing compared to the run-dominant football of the up-to-1980's when Dan Marino started to air it out more.

Team Wins?
The Vikings have 7 wins.... without him, with Christian Ponder and Toby Gerhart leading the way, the Vikings would be the Arizona Cardinals. Only without Fitzgerald.

PASSER RATING
1. Robert Griffin III, 104.2
1. Tom Brady, 104.2
3. Alex Smith, 104.1
4. Peyton Manning, 104.0
5. Aaron Rodgers, 103.7

TOUCHDOWN PASSES
1. Drew Brees 32
2. Peyton Manning 30
3. Aaron Rodgers 29
3. Tom Brady 29

Again, not a lot of separation between QB1, QB2, QB3 this year, and in fact many had Matt Ryan as #1 a month or so ago.

But Peterson is head & shoulders above all others at his position.
If a Viking-hater like myself can see this, everyone should be able to.

Of course, since the Vikings aren't an East Coast team, perhaps most of y'all haven't seen his games other than your SportsCenter highlights you see.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Not to put fuel on the fire so to speak..

Adrian Peterson's only CRAZY thing about his season is that he is coming off of injury, let me explain.

His 2000 yard campaign is not nearly as impressive if you take the injury aspect out of it. OJ hit the 2000 yard mark in 14 games, Dickerson did in 15 games, CJ2K had 500 yards receiving to go with his 2000 yard rushing, Terrell Davis sat out approx. 2 whole games and still hit 2000 and 20 TD's.


Considering this the fact that he came back and is having success from a serious injury is another reason he is getting hype, but that same look at how he is playing after injury is negated because Manning's injury was far worse and is playing lights out also.

So you're trying to discount what Peterson might do this year by pointing out that it has been done before in the history of the NFL? Ok then, go on thinking that no one has done what Brady and Manning have done this year before...

[prock]

But Manning and Brady are having decent years by their standards!!!!

[WCH]

Adrian Peterson, in the past two months, has been playing better than any RB since Barry Sanders had his 2k season. He's just playing at such a high level, it's insane. J-Mike and I are Packer fans, and we're riding his dick. That's the type of level this guy is on.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by yo123

So you're trying to discount what Peterson might do this year by pointing out that it has been done before in the history of the NFL?
Ok then, go on thinking that no one has done what Brady and Manning have done this year before...

In a nutshell, that's a pretty good synopsis.

[Halsey]

Everybody keeps pointing to Peterson's 7 game streak of 100+ yard games. I just want to point out again that the Vikings are 3-4 during that streak.

"but...but...that's because the Vikings QB play has dropped off!"

Which kind of backs up the point that a RB doesn't belong in the MVP conversation with the most valuable QBs.

[prock]

Our record in that stretch in absolutely no way discredits how valuable he has been to this team, which if you have noticed, is still above .500.