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View Poll Results: Who's your MVP entering Sunday week 12
P Manning 28 50.00%
A Rodgers 4 7.14%
T Brady 12 21.43%
R Griffin 1 1.79%
D Brees 3 5.36%
M Ryan 2 3.57%
A Peterson 4 7.14%
A Foster 0 0%
M Lynch 1 1.79%
Other: Who? 1 1.79%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
which insult, specifically? the one where i simply tl;dr'd your opinion and rolled my eyes at it? the one you called a 'comeback' for some unknown reason? and did you completely miss where i said i'd give it to brady on like, the first page? why do you, in every single thread you post in, insist on making people repost things they've already said 15 times?
God dammit njx, you have to bold the important parts of your posts.
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Jesse realizing Walt was Santa Claus could really shake things up.
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I don't know how old you are, but if you can get to 24/25 without getting arrested or killed, you've done well for yourself lol.
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Old 12-11-2012, 08:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by njx9 View Post
i figured the simple fact that i was acknowledging brady was actually good would be enough, but apparently not.

also, congrats on the super bowl. i'm massively depressed that you'll be in yet another one.
Denver is going to be just as dangerous in the playoffs, and I think you guys still have a pretty good shot at getting the 2 seed over us. We havent been overly dominant in the playoffs for awhile now so anything could happen in this years AFC, one big win wont change my mind about that.
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Old 12-12-2012, 01:24 AM    (permalink
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Descendency makes a great point and it's one I still get confused sometimes.

There's a difference between Offensive Player Of The Year and MVP.
You don't usually see an MVP from .500 or worse ball clubs. The MVP is usually from a team that one of the best in the league, or has a winning record.
The Vikes do have a winning record, but they're nowhere near a dominant football team or possible SB contender.

Brady and Manning are impacting the success of their teams to a much greater degree IMO than AD is for the Vikings.

If it's about OPOTY, I'd pick Peterson ten times out of ten.
What he's doing and how he's doing it is just unbelievable.

Not only is he on track for 2K, he's in striking distance of Eric Dickerson's alltime single season rushing mark of 2105.

AD I think is the league's best offensive player, but he's not MVP.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:27 AM    (permalink
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Descendency makes a great point and it's one I still get confused sometimes.

There's a difference between Offensive Player Of The Year and MVP.
You don't usually see an MVP from .500 or worse ball clubs. The MVP is usually from a team that one of the best in the league, or has a winning record.
The Vikes do have a winning record, but they're nowhere near a dominant football team or possible SB contender.

Brady and Manning are impacting the success of their teams to a much greater degree IMO than AD is for the Vikings.

If it's about OPOTY, I'd pick Peterson ten times out of ten.
What he's doing and how he's doing it is just unbelievable.

Not only is he on track for 2K, he's in striking distance of Eric Dickerson's alltime single season rushing mark of 2105.

AD I think is the league's best offensive player, but he's not MVP.
That's such a ******** argument. Not saying that you're wrong because based on the how the system is set up that is how it works, but it's BS.

it's the NFL MVP award. As in most valuable player in the NFL. Not who's most important to their team's success. It's really a shame that in all sports it has become "best player on a playoff team". One player can only do so much to help their team. Without Adrian Peterson the Vikings are picking top 5, maybe even winless. It's not his fault that he doesn't have a top QB. Put a good but not elite QB like Schaub or Cutler on the Vikings and they're probably one of the best teams in the league, because of the running attack of Adrian Peterson. 1600 yards with an average of 6.0 per carry is ridiculously good, especially in a time where running isn't an offenses focus. Manning and Brady are having very good seasons, but it's nothing that we haven't seen before. Peterson might set the rushing record on a team with no passing game to take the pressure off while averaging an outstanding 6.0 ypc. He has my vote right now, I don't care if the Vikings miss the playoffs. Best player in the league this year.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:39 AM    (permalink
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Couldn't have said it better. The Vikings without AD = the Cardinals - Fitz.

How do we have 7 wins thus far? It's entirely AD.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:44 AM    (permalink
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It's hard for a RB to win MVP over a QB who's having an equally outstanding season.

If AD had 15 TDs and the Vikes had a couple more wins, I think Peterson would be a stronger MVP candidate.

Right now I think he's no worse than 3rd in the voting for MVP.
IMO there's no more dominant player in the NFL than Peterson.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:58 AM    (permalink
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It's hard for a RB to win MVP over a QB who's having an equally outstanding season.

If AD had 15 TDs and the Vikes had a couple more wins, I think Peterson would be a stronger MVP candidate.

Right now I think he's no worse than 3rd in the voting for MVP.
IMO there's no more dominant player in the NFL than Peterson.
That's what is hard for me to believe. Obviously there are QBs having great seasons and it is absolutely a more valuable position, but AD is wrecking everything. He is the best at his position in the league and is the only reason the Vikes don't have probably three wins. Homerism aside, I think it is between him and Brady and if he keep his act up it should be an obvious choice.
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:18 AM    (permalink
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That's what is hard for me to believe. Obviously there are QBs having great seasons and it is absolutely a more valuable position, but AD is wrecking everything. He is the best at his position in the league and is the only reason the Vikes don't have probably three wins. Homerism aside, I think it is between him and Brady and if he keep his act up it should be an obvious choice.
Not necessarily disagreeing with the validity to this argument, but Peterson being the best RB doesn't make him the most valuable player. That's what the pro bowl and all pro teams are meant to symbolise.

Calvin Johnson is on pace to achieve something which has happened less than what Peterson has done, so it's clear most people see Peterson's value more in the fact that he is helping his team win more games.

However, a guy like Peterson who makes the Vikings go from a 3 win team to a 7 or 8 win team is great, but the fact of the matter is, you take Rodgers, Manning, Brady etc off of their teams and they don't have the same success. Last time the Pats didn't have Brady and they didn't win the division and didn't make the playoffs. The Broncos have a serious chance to get the #1 seed if the Texans and Pats fall again. You really think they do that with Brock Osweiler?

Peterson may add a few extra wins to the Vikings but the QBs make their teams legitimate Superbowl contenders. Being the best player on a bad team does not equate to most valuable. You take Aaron Rodgers off the Packers and I doubt they are a 6 win team.

Any way people want to look at it, it is a QB centric league because QBs affect the game much more than any other position. A QB having a really good year is more valuable than a RB having a great year
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Old 12-12-2012, 03:23 AM    (permalink
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If you're gonna disregard everyone else because the QB has the most influence on how many wins a team has (which i don't disagree with), then why not just rename it the QBOTY award? I don't think it's fair to discount Peterson simply because he doesn't put them in the playoffs himself. What he's doing is ridiculously impressive. I don't think it's about where a team is, but about how far it's taken them to get there. Without Peterson, the Vikings on offense are one of, if not the worst in the entire league, and he has a good shot at breaking the all time single season rushing record. That's pretty ******* significant.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:24 AM    (permalink
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If you're gonna disregard everyone else because the QB has the most influence on how many wins a team has (which i don't disagree with), then why not just rename it the QBOTY award? I don't think it's fair to discount Peterson simply because he doesn't put them in the playoffs himself. What he's doing is ridiculously impressive. I don't think it's about where a team is, but about how far it's taken them to get there. Without Peterson, the Vikings on offense are one of, if not the worst in the entire league, and he has a good shot at breaking the all time single season rushing record. That's pretty ******* significant.
I agree what he's doing unbelievable, but I suppose value is relative to each person. I mean, without Jamaal Charles the Chiefs may rival the Detroit Lions from a few years back. He's on pace for 1500 yards on the worst team in the NFL with a far worse QB situation than the Vikings. The Chiefs are generally behind in most games (I can't remember how long it lasted but they didn't lead in a game for a good few weeks to start the season) and that isn't going to help Charles get more carries. Now Peterson has only had 20 or so more carries than Charles, but RBs, especially like Charles and Peterson tend to get yards in big chunks. You may get 2 yards, 3 yards, 2 yards then 15 yards etc so the more carries in the game the better their chances of breaking a big gain. In week 2 Charles had 6 carries - this against the same Bills team who gave up 250 on the ground to the Pats. In week 8 against Oakland, another putrid run defense he had 5 carries.

Also, not to take away from Peterson, but his 2 best performances of the season both came in losses. 182 and 2TDs against Seattle and 210 and 1 against GB. Obviously he is hamstrung by the QB play, but when it comes to value, if Manning, Rodgers or Brady have their best day of the season you can pretty much bet it's coming in a win for their team

I'm not a fan with the whole Most Valuable tag anyway because you can't determine who it is on most teams without a top notch QB. Who's more valuable to the Bills? CJ Spiller, Kyle Williams, Jackson, Wood etc???
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Old 12-12-2012, 07:59 AM    (permalink
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People get so hung up on the value part. It'd be better if they just changed it to Most Outstanding Player. If you go so literal with value then no one other than a QB should ever even be in the discussion.

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Also, not to take away from Peterson, but his 2 best performances of the season both came in losses. 182 and 2TDs against Seattle and 210 and 1 against GB. Obviously he is hamstrung by the QB play, but when it comes to value, if Manning, Rodgers or Brady have their best day of the season you can pretty much bet it's coming in a win for their team
I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:03 AM    (permalink
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Someone put this up to an official SWDC vote, let's see who we nominate.
Enough of the case-making: let's just vote.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:32 AM    (permalink
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Adrian Peterson, in the past two months, has been playing better than any RB since Barry Sanders had his 2k season. He's just playing at such a high level, it's insane. J-Mike and I are Packer fans, and we're riding his dick. That's the type of level this guy is on.
Dude not trying to sound like a homer, but after OJ and Dickerson's years TD easily had the most dominate, dude sat out around 2 full games because they were up so early, and he was easily the most clutch postseason runner in the last 20 years.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:37 AM    (permalink
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People get so hung up on the value part. It'd be better if they just changed it to Most Outstanding Player. If you go so literal with value then no one other than a QB should ever even be in the discussion.



I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.

I dont think the fact the team decided to give up and just run it, when down big... sorry that's just common sense if the team is down big and they keep running it they are not trying to win at that point they are just trying to get the game over with.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:44 AM    (permalink
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I think that's actually more impressive. Most teams abandon the run when they're losing; the Vikings keep pounding it because Peterson is so good. Being able to have such incredible games and still come out with a loss just shows what a **** team he's playing on.
Well you could look at it a different way. When teams are up more than one score in the 4th they generally go either prevent or at least a deep cover 2 shell. No team is foolish enough to stack the box when up multiple scores in the 4th regardless of who the QB is.

For example, Ben Tate ended up with 46 yards from 8 carries on Monday night, pretty much all when the game was out of hand. The Pats weren't attacking gaps and playing the same way they did against Foster in the first half.

Running the ball when in a hole is not a sign that someone is amazing. Peterson is amazing because he can do it when they are winning and teams know he is going to run. I would give AP 6 yard a pop when I'm up 2 scores if I can play deep coverage to stop big plays every single time.
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:48 AM    (permalink
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Well you could look at it a different way. When teams are up more than one score in the 4th they generally go either prevent or at least a deep cover 2 shell. No team is foolish enough to stack the box when up multiple scores in the 4th regardless of who the QB is.

For example, Ben Tate ended up with 46 yards from 8 carries on Monday night, pretty much all when the game was out of hand. The Pats weren't attacking gaps and playing the same way they did against Foster in the first half.

Running the ball when in a hole is not a sign that someone is amazing. Peterson is amazing because he can do it when they are winning and teams know he is going to run. I would give AP 6 yard a pop when I'm up 2 scores if I can play deep coverage to stop big plays every single time.
Exactly... racking up garbage yards doesnt make it impressive
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Old 12-12-2012, 08:54 AM    (permalink
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Isn't MVP minus the value part, kinda the same thing as Offensive Player of the Year? Which I have no problem with giving to AD this year. But MVP for me has to come down to Brady and Big Brother, the AFC is weak this year, but those two are making superbowl contenders out of very flawed teams.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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Exactly... racking up garbage yards doesnt make it impressive
Except Peterson isn't just racking up garbage yards against teams playing with late leads. I hate to use an argument that's just nothing but stats, but here it goes:

Peterson has 837 yards on 136 attempts (6.2 ypc) and 7 tds in the first half of games, compared to 737 yards on 126 attempts (5.8 ypc) and 4tds in the second half.

When his team is winning he has 645 yards on 131 attempts (4.9 ypc) and 2 tds. When trailing he has 521 yards on 83 attempts (6.3ypc) and 5 tds, and when tied he has 434 yards on 51 attempts (8.5 ypc) and 3 tds.

Now, that shows he's more productive per carry when trailing rather than being ahead, but it's not like he's doing all that down 20 points or something and team letting the vikings have the run. He's actually averaging a higher yards per carry (6.9 to 4.3) when down one score than when they're down in the 9-16 point range, and that's on a very similar number of carries too (31 to 36.)

Now I'm not saying Peterson should be MVP. I said earlier in this thread that if he breaks 2k yards and if the Vikings make the playoffs I'd be fine with him winning. As it is, I'd vote Brady right now. I just don't think you can call Peterson's yardage totals a result of him getting "garbage yards."

If you want to check any of these numbers, i got them from here:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits...drian-peterson
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Old 12-12-2012, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Let me get this straight after reading all the posts.


AD is having a great year but his team's record is so-so because of the QB play on his team... Correct?

Taking that in to account, that obviously allows the argument that no matter how good he has played, his QB is still more impactfull on their team's success.

That being said if the QB is the most "impactful" "Valuable" to their respective team's success, the two best QB's in the game (Brady and Manning) should easily win the MVP.


Now i do think that AD is having a great year..but the point was brought up that its Ponder's fault for the Viking's Record, meaning the QB is the most Valuable or Impactful player for any team...
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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I've said this already, but you don't have to be a quarterback to be valuable. AD is running for 6 yards a carry with no other weapons around him. Teams only have to worry about him and he still dominates. Without him we have possibly the worst offense in the league. We would have another 3 win season. He is going to personally account for 5-6 wins. The Broncos are a good football teams, as are the Patriots. Put Mallet in for Brady and they may still win 8-9 games. Quarterback is obviously the most important position, but saying you can't win MVP if you aren't one is stupid.
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Old 12-12-2012, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Dude not trying to sound like a homer, but after OJ and Dickerson's years TD easily had the most dominate, dude sat out around 2 full games because they were up so early, and he was easily the most clutch postseason runner in the last 20 years.
Yeah, and sitting out part of two games seems meaningful in this situation until you think for half a second and realize that AD is on pace for 66 less carries than Davis regardless of how many more games he's going to play.

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Old 12-12-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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And why the hell are we talking about Peterson getting yards in "garbage time" like the Vikings are some kind of bottom feeder that gets destroyed week in and week out? They're 7-6, and haven't been involved in that much garbage time period.

And like crossroads said, he's done more of his damage in the first half. I didn't even vote for Peterson, but some of the arguments being tossed around...jesus christ.
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:27 PM    (permalink
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Did a Pat fan really mention in their argument when Brady went down?

You still won 11 games. With Cassel....
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Old 12-12-2012, 04:57 PM    (permalink
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AD > /thread.

Seriously though, without Adrian that Vikings team would be lucky to have 2-3 wins at most this year, he means more to his team than any other play IMO. Aren't the Broncos a year removed with one of the most talked about athletes ever playing QB for them? Not saying Peyton isn't playing superb football, but Broncos are still a winning team with or without Peyton. This is to go in line with the removal of Brady that someone was talking about earlier, and how Cassel replaced him and still managed to go 11-5 or 10-6 or whatever.

Also, who's going to win comeback player of the year?
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Old 12-12-2012, 05:25 PM    (permalink
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wtf does tebow being 'one of the most talked about athletes ever' have to do with anything? what a ludicrous argument for anything.
Think he meant that the Broncos went the playoffs with someone who, all year, was criticized for his play, so the fact that Peyton Manning is getting them there isn't really surprising at all. We except Peyton Manning to, because we think of Peyton Manning as an MVP-caliber player. But if Tebow is a far inferior quarterback, then we might just be looking at a good quarterback on a really good team. Or at least, a team that suits his strengths.

I think the award should go to the player who looks like he's the best player in the league, period. The player who consistently plays above the level of his competition, as an individual. It's the most individual award. It should go to Adrian Peterson this year. Give Manning comeback player of the year and his usual Pro Bowl slot, but Adrian Peterson is destroying defenses playing for a **** team. Peyton can't claim that. I mean, it's a regular-season award.
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