MVP as we head out of November

[crossroads]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Exactly... racking up garbage yards doesnt make it impressive

Except Peterson isn't just racking up garbage yards against teams playing with late leads. I hate to use an argument that's just nothing but stats, but here it goes:

Peterson has 837 yards on 136 attempts (6.2 ypc) and 7 tds in the first half of games, compared to 737 yards on 126 attempts (5.8 ypc) and 4tds in the second half.

When his team is winning he has 645 yards on 131 attempts (4.9 ypc) and 2 tds. When trailing he has 521 yards on 83 attempts (6.3ypc) and 5 tds, and when tied he has 434 yards on 51 attempts (8.5 ypc) and 3 tds.

Now, that shows he's more productive per carry when trailing rather than being ahead, but it's not like he's doing all that down 20 points or something and team letting the vikings have the run. He's actually averaging a higher yards per carry (6.9 to 4.3) when down one score than when they're down in the 9-16 point range, and that's on a very similar number of carries too (31 to 36.)

Now I'm not saying Peterson should be MVP. I said earlier in this thread that if he breaks 2k yards and if the Vikings make the playoffs I'd be fine with him winning. As it is, I'd vote Brady right now. I just don't think you can call Peterson's yardage totals a result of him getting "garbage yards."

If you want to check any of these numbers, i got them from here:
http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits...drian-peterson

[Denver Bronco56]

Let me get this straight after reading all the posts.


AD is having a great year but his team's record is so-so because of the QB play on his team... Correct?

Taking that in to account, that obviously allows the argument that no matter how good he has played, his QB is still more impactfull on their team's success.

That being said if the QB is the most "impactful" "Valuable" to their respective team's success, the two best QB's in the game (Brady and Manning) should easily win the MVP.


Now i do think that AD is having a great year..but the point was brought up that its Ponder's fault for the Viking's Record, meaning the QB is the most Valuable or Impactful player for any team...

[prock]

I've said this already, but you don't have to be a quarterback to be valuable. AD is running for 6 yards a carry with no other weapons around him. Teams only have to worry about him and he still dominates. Without him we have possibly the worst offense in the league. We would have another 3 win season. He is going to personally account for 5-6 wins. The Broncos are a good football teams, as are the Patriots. Put Mallet in for Brady and they may still win 8-9 games. Quarterback is obviously the most important position, but saying you can't win MVP if you aren't one is stupid.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Dude not trying to sound like a homer, but after OJ and Dickerson's years TD easily had the most dominate, dude sat out around 2 full games because they were up so early, and he was easily the most clutch postseason runner in the last 20 years.

Yeah, and sitting out part of two games seems meaningful in this situation until you think for half a second and realize that AD is on pace for 66 less carries than Davis regardless of how many more games he's going to play.

[yo123]

And why the hell are we talking about Peterson getting yards in "garbage time" like the Vikings are some kind of bottom feeder that gets destroyed week in and week out? They're 7-6, and haven't been involved in that much garbage time period.

And like crossroads said, he's done more of his damage in the first half. I didn't even vote for Peterson, but some of the arguments being tossed around...jesus christ.

[nrk]

Did a Pat fan really mention in their argument when Brady went down?

You still won 11 games. With Cassel....

[Shreckart]

AD > /thread.

Seriously though, without Adrian that Vikings team would be lucky to have 2-3 wins at most this year, he means more to his team than any other play IMO. Aren't the Broncos a year removed with one of the most talked about athletes ever playing QB for them? Not saying Peyton isn't playing superb football, but Broncos are still a winning team with or without Peyton. This is to go in line with the removal of Brady that someone was talking about earlier, and how Cassel replaced him and still managed to go 11-5 or 10-6 or whatever.

Also, who's going to win comeback player of the year?

[njx9]

wtf does tebow being 'one of the most talked about athletes ever' have to do with anything? what a ludicrous argument for anything.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

wtf does tebow being 'one of the most talked about athletes ever' have to do with anything? what a ludicrous argument for anything.

Think he meant that the Broncos went the playoffs with someone who, all year, was criticized for his play, so the fact that Peyton Manning is getting them there isn't really surprising at all. We except Peyton Manning to, because we think of Peyton Manning as an MVP-caliber player. But if Tebow is a far inferior quarterback, then we might just be looking at a good quarterback on a really good team. Or at least, a team that suits his strengths.

I think the award should go to the player who looks like he's the best player in the league, period. The player who consistently plays above the level of his competition, as an individual. It's the most individual award. It should go to Adrian Peterson this year. Give Manning comeback player of the year and his usual Pro Bowl slot, but Adrian Peterson is destroying defenses playing for a **** team. Peyton can't claim that. I mean, it's a regular-season award.

[njx9]

fair, maybe i missed a sarcasm tag.

in any case, my vote is still with brady. that current patriots team would be colts-level awful without him, not the front runners for the super bowl. again.

peterson should win the OPOTY unanimously. but i just don't see any way he's more valuable than brady.

[G Mobile]

Give me Brady as MVP, and then put Manning & Adrian filling in Comeback player and offensive player interchangeably. Both fit either award honestly.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by nrk

Did a Pat fan really mention in their argument when Brady went down?

You still won 11 games. With Cassel....

The Chiefs won 10 games with Cassel, he's fine if in a system which is what McDaniels did for him. Plus, they had Moss and Welker. But keep hating, Based Brady will collect his MVP.

[Caulibflower]

Originally Posted by njx9

fair, maybe i missed a sarcasm tag.

in any case, my vote is still with brady. that current patriots team would be colts-level awful without him, not the front runners for the super bowl. again.

peterson should win the OPOTY unanimously. but i just don't see any way he's more valuable than brady.

I'd prefer Brady over Manning, too. I think Peyton's story is improving his case here, but he basically had his pick of teams and chose the team that he thought would be easiest to win with. Denver's so talented, it just makes sense. I think New England's got a weaker overall squad (biggest diferences on the defensive side, obviously), so given that they're both top playoff seeds I'd go with Brady. Think the Broncos would definitely be a top team in the NFL with AP and without Manning, though. Ponder's just bad. He's not even average.

[Rosebud]

Are the Broncos really that talented? They have a nice pair of WRs, a nice pair of pass rushers, a solid OL, but that's about it. I think Brady's got more talent to work with even if his best weapons have been hurt.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Are the Broncos really that talented? They have a nice pair of WRs, a nice pair of pass rushers, a solid OL, but that's about it. I think Brady's got more talent to work with even if his best weapons have been hurt.

aside meh, i'd take the pats TEs, RBs and like, 1 of their LBs over what's on the donkey's roster. i think that's a supremely talentless team, otherwise, that's solely this good because of brady on offense, and belichick on defense.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by njx9

aside meh, i'd take the pats TEs, RBs and like, 1 of their LBs over what's on the donkey's roster. i think that's a supremely talentless team, otherwise, that's solely this good because of brady on offense, and belichick on defense.

I think the Pats have a good front 7, Wilfork's a monster, Jones was having a great rookie year, Hightower, Spikes and Mayo can all contribute. The Secondary's a weakness, but it's not like Denver's got a great secondary either. Offensively the running game's been reliable, the two TEs when healthy are game changers, Welker, Lloyd and co can do enough. I think it's pretty even for both Peyton and Brady, although I give the nod to NE.

[jsagan77]

I have it as

Mvp: Brady
Opoty: AD
Dpoty: Watt
CBPOTY: Manning
OROTY: RG3
DROTY: Kulechy
Coach of the year: Mike Shanahan (if skins make the playoffs) if not then Pete Carrol.

[Shreckart]

Originally Posted by njx9

wtf does tebow being 'one of the most talked about athletes ever' have to do with anything? what a ludicrous argument for anything.

I threw that in there rather than saying Tim Tebow, just my choice of words. It didn't have to do with an argument at all.

[Cardinal96]

Colts fan.

I would have Brady as MVP. He is playing at another level right now.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by G Mobile

Give me Brady as MVP, and then put Manning & Adrian filling in Comeback player and offensive player interchangeably. Both fit either award honestly.

This I also find very stupid. The voters should be voting on who they feel most deserves each award. Who won or is going to win other awards should not be a factor. They're supposed to be their own award, not consolation prizes.

[elway=goat]

Surprised most are picking Manning. I knows it's already been brought up, but he is playing on a team that was in the playoffs, and was one game away from the AFC championship game, with Tim Tebow as a starter, just a year ago. That is not to say we are not a better team, especially against the elite teams. I just feel this team probably wins the division with a decent backup QB.

I would also like to point out, that 2 of the 3 games we lost is because Manning was throwing terrible picks. He had as many picks in the Falcons game as Brady has had all season. Not that that is news, Manning has always turned the ball over at a higher clip(in some cases much higher) than Brady. This year kinda reminds me of 2 years ago for Brady. He has been ridiculously efficent, especially careful about turning the ball over. Which makes him my MVP.

http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com...n-ladder/7285/

Each interception decreases your teams chance to win, by about 20%. Which is why I always have thought of Brady so high, when comparing QB's. He is throwing just as much as the other elite QB's. Similar yards, TD's, high powered offense, and usually throws 1/2 to 1/3 of the amount of picks as the other elites, I think its an easy choice.. He gives his chance more of a chance to win, than anyone in football(imo).

I like Peterson as well, I think a great running back, especially with his skillset can be as dominate as a great QB, just in a different way. I mean, handing him the ball is just as effective as the Vikings throwing the ball. So its pick your poison, so in that way, he is very valuable in his own right.

I would still pick Brady.

[elway=goat]

Originally Posted by njx9

meh, we have no running game and no run defense. and brady's currently unstoppable. we'll be done in the first if you don't stumble against the 49ers and we somehow beat the ravens.

Pretty much this.. I guess it could happen, but if they address the runnning game, along with getting a big body or 2 to take up spaces, or possibly a dominate run stopping MLB, this team would be nearly complete. A lot to ask for in just an off season though.

[elway=goat]

Originally Posted by nrk

Did a Pat fan really mention in their argument when Brady went down?

You still won 11 games. With Cassel....

That's a good point, but you have to remember that was most of the team was left over from the team that went 16-0 and one prayer of a throw away from winning the superbowl.

Also, although Cassel sucks. He had a solid year, followed by a couple more, including leading KC to the playoffs. Not that this holds weight, because Josh Mcdaniels a ******* tool, but he was willing to ship Jay Cutler to KC for Cassel, to give you an idea of how high he thought of him. So its not as if he was a complete bum, who did it. He proved to be a decent starter at his peak.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by nrk

Did a Pat fan really mention in their argument when Brady went down?

You still won 11 games. With Cassel....

I did but clearly you didn't want to actually read what I said. I stated that Peterson makes the Vikings from being a bad team to a middle of the road team. Brady makes the Pats consistent Superbowl contenders and the only year they haven't won the division with him there since 2002 was the year he was hurt. When talking of relative value then how does that not make sense?

Originally Posted by elway=goat

That's a good point, but you have to remenber that was most of the team that was 16 and one prayer of a throw away from winning the superbowl.

Also, although Cassel sucks. He had a solid year, followed by a couple more, including the playoffs. So its not as if, it was a complete bum who did it.

This. It's not as though that Pats team was a terrible team. Cassell was throwing to Welker at the top of his game, he had a great offensive line and he had Randy Moss just off a season for the ages. Tom Brady has taken far worse teams to 13+ wins, and when people talk about MVP being on a good team this is what it is about. Sure Peterson may add more wins to a team but he doesn't make the Vikings legitimate contenders. It's not his fault, it is simply the fact that no position has the value of a QB. It sucks for all other players, but basically unless a player from another position is so ridiculously good he can blow all stats away and single handidly turn his team into a Superbowl team then they probably won't win the award.

[ninerfan]

Its brady imo