New York Giants Discussion

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

Good points, and this has been my general feeling as well.

Going into this season, I was very confident with our talent but clearly they just aren't good enough. I don't buy the injury excuse, all NFL teams have the same factors to deal with.

I expected more from the talent we do have. Take the Dline for example, considering the talent, they should have performed better. That comes back to coaching to a large degree.

I don't think our scheme has been aggessive enough, I would like to see a little more pressure.

I think our DL is old and have been ineffective as a group all year long. Osi is the most productive, and he is out the door. Tuck is useless and done. He hasn't stayed healthy since he became a starter for us. JPP looks thicker or fatter than last year. But some how he is struggling.

Now that could be good if you are an aggressive DC who brings more blitzes to help the struggling DL. However, just like Tim Lewis, Fewell isn't an aggressive DC schematically. So now that's a problem. Even with our DL was on last year the scheme was breaking down on the back end of things.

Winning the SB saved his job and got the attention off his god awful scheme. It started with the year of the Philly choke job to last year in the regular season. We won the SB, and again this year our defense is soft.. Just scheme wise it's not a good fit for us.

That's the defense. Offensively, I have stated how I feel. It's an issue when you see opposing CBs route reading VERY well before our WRs even make the break on their routes. You run a simple square in, and you see the CB run full speed to the landmark just as our WR is getting there or even a step earlier. That's an issue for a system that preaches we will beat any coverage due to our WR rules. Well what then? Seems like now they know what we are running based on tape, and can play coverages that manipulate where our WRs are going go and get there before they do.

It also hurts us that our OL stinks, and our WRs are hurt. How long have we been running this system? Is it unrealistic to think that eventually this system will be caught up with? 8 years in this system may be a lot. Just going to cite Eli's WFAN interview saying the system was Gilbride's system, when Hufangel was the OC. Right or wrong, it could be TC's but the point is this system has been here since 2004. So could it be realistic to think after 8 years that the system needs an overall to stay one step ahead?

Let's see how we do against the Ravens.

[bigbluedefense]

DL issues are as follows:

1. Tuck is done. He's just done. And the worst part is he doesn't care, and his body language and attitude infests the rest of the team. It's time to move on.

2. Osi is our 2nd best DE right now but because we need his pass rush 2 things are happening:

A) JPP moves to LE. JPP isn't effective as a LE. He has always said he prefers RE and that's his most natural spot and as a LE he isn't as effective. But Osi can only play RE. So to have them both on the field we move JPP to LE where he's less effective.

B) Obviously with Osi, you're gonna lose some run stuffing ability.

3. Going back to JPP, we move him around too much. Stop getting cute, and just line the man up at RE and let him ball. He's not effective at DT rushing inside, he's not as effective at LE. Just use him the way he's supposed to be used at RE and let the man ball.

4. Kiwi is a JAG. Let's face it. He's a JAG.

So there you have it. Our DL in a nutshell.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Now we need to focus on the future. Tuck is done, Osi is gone, then what? Kiwi, JPP, Ojomo, and maybe a draft pick on the DL? How about we actually be aggressive and blitz to complement these pass rushers? I don't want the system premise to be all based on the pass rush. If that fails, then we get bent over and railed!

I want an aggressive system. I believe that fits us the best and our of all the systems, and DCs, that system we ran with Spags is the one I prefer. Now, that doesn't mean I want Spags back or anything like that but that aggressive mentality is what I prefer to the Tim Lewis, Sheridan, and Fewell systems.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

One day later, and it still feels crappy to have lost like that yesterday.

One thing I've thought about, and I'm not saying it's anything more than a strange coincidence, but still:

We always lose games in which we are "dedicating our games to something" Whether it was last years season opener for the 9/11 rememberance game, or this season, the Hurricane Sandy game against the steelers, and the shooting tragedy game last night. What's up with that? Weird stuff.

At this point in the season I almost hope that if we are going to miss the playoffs, I'd rather just lose to the Ravens and be done with it. If we win over the Ravens (which I suspect we will), and then lose to the Eagles and miss the playoffs by the hands of them, I will be furious. And it would be typical Giant style. We have had horrible losses to the Eagles the last years.

[scottyboy]

Kiwi being a JAG is our 2nd best DE though. So there's that. Don't blame the coaching staff for jerking JPP around and his lack of success and then go after Kiwi. **** if we just kept him at DE who knows where he/we'd be

[Rosebud]

I'd love to see us draft a DL or DB in the first two rounds. There seem to be a lot of gifted DL kids in this draft and picking up another corner or safety would do the d a world of good.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

You think JPP is starting to get frustrated with Tuck? If I read between the lines on some of his statements, and cross-reference them to what Tuck always says, it sounds like he's getting tired of what Tuck is preaching.

JPP on twitter: "So embarrassed right now, Really WTF was that! We played like s*** Real talk."

Tuck said this today, to which JPP answered:

“We have had crappy games like this and came right back out and played like Super Bowl champions,” defensive end Justin Tuck said, via Newsday’s Tom Rock. “No, my confidence is not shaken.”

On the other hand, the third straight year of ridiculous Week 15 losses is a trend that lasts beyond the more recent resilience, which some are getting tired of hearing about.

“That don’t mean nothing,” defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul said. “That was last year. All that talk that we been here before, forget all that. I’m tired of hearing it. We just have to go out and play. There’s no ‘we been here before.’ “

[Damix]

Another year another second half collapse. EVERY ******* YEAR.

[Forenci]

Haha, how can you not love JPP? He's saying all the things you should say as a player.

And many of us fans have fallen into the same thing mind set of Tuck. Except as fans we're allowed to do that but as players that is an awful mindset to have.

"We'll turn it on when we need to?" or "Just look at last year" is a terrible way to look at things as a players. It's obvious he only tries when he has to. What happened last season doesn't mean jack. Seems like Tuck won his second Super Bowl and doesn't really care anymore now.

That's why I always scoff and DO get nervous unlike many Giants fans during the course of this year. Last year is last year. It doesn't mean anything to this current season. The league changes, rosters change, and teams get older and younger. To base anything off a previous season or heck, even earlier in the season, is crazy.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

That's on coaching. Also, I wonder if towards the end of the season, how both sides of the ball deal with adding tendency breakers to keep from teams zeroing in on specific things.

In fact, I look at this every year as the season unfolds. A team can come out and dominate early on, however, I am more interested in if that happens once there is 9 + games of film to watch.

What is the rate this team adds things as the season unfolds? Someone asked TC about the late season struggles, and I believe his answer was he is not sure, he has kept things the same.

Isn't that the definition of insanity? Keep doing the same thing, and expecting different results. If this is an issue, do something different. If it's drastic so be it.

Maybe assign the Pro personnel scouts or the video guys to scout the team throughout the season. So that before the BYE week they can get a snap shot of tendencies so that you don't have to wait until the BYE week to self scout. Basically, have the guys do that for you.

That was the pro active nature that led to scouting the ref crews that I worked on. Perhaps a model can be used or something or someone utilized to self scout so that you don't need to wait until the BYE week. It's always there and thus you can make adjustments quicker.

[D-Unit]

At least you guys have your health for the most part. Gives you hope going into your last 2 games that the ability is there. Cowboys are picking guys off the street. Gives me less hope about beating NOR and WAS. We have to rely on sheer fight.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Damix

Another year another second half collapse. EVERY ******* YEAR.

That's a funny thing to say for a reigning SB champ. haha.

[Damix]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

That's a funny thing to say for a reigning SB champ. haha.

Both years we've won the super bowl we've also had dreadful second halves. It has been every year since Coughlin has been here. There have been some excuses, rookie Eli taking over for Kurt, Plax shooting himself. But its not just those, it is every year.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Damix

Both years we've won the super bowl we've also had dreadful second halves. It has been every year since Coughlin has been here. There have been some excuses, rookie Eli taking over for Kurt, Plax shooting himself. But its not just those, it is every year.

You guys have killer second halfs. Both SB wins came off amazing hot streaks.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by D-Unit

You guys have killer second halfs. Both SB wins came off amazing hot streaks.

Hot streaks that started after some serious bed ********. Like yesterday.

[D-Unit]

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Hot streaks that started after some serious bed ********. Like yesterday.

Still gotta love them hot streaks though! I just saw Brodeur post that the Lions have only won 1 playoff game in 50 years. Sometimes, I think we're too harsh on our NFC East teams.

[Malaka]

If we resign Tuck I will be outraged. Osi is gone. As for Kiwi, I guess if a JAG is solid... then that's what he is solid, but at this point I'd prefer him as a rotational guy.

I feel like Scott in his mock read my mind. I think we take Ezekiel Ansah out BYU if he's there with our pick. JPP at RE and Ansah at LE... scary duo.

I am happy Beatty stepped up this year. If keeps his play up he can definitely be the LT of the future. However, Snee is declining rapidly, Diehl is a turnstile. Its time we take take a lineman with a premium pick either round 1 or 2.

Ideally in the third round we will draft another corner/safety. As long as we get someone for the secondary within the first three picks I am happy.

As for LBs I think were atrocious but honestly in this day and age of football they are just not that important anymore. Nickel base defense... two backers Boley and Jacquian that's all I want next season.

Also with both Osi and Tuck gone. I think there is a good chance we can re-sign Linval Joseph. I am only for this if he comes at the right price. He is replaceable, but we only have so many picks in the draft. I do not think he will get Barry Cofield overpaid. It will be interesting to see what JR does with KP though he is a huge part of the D... but that knee... why did he have to get hurt :/ Lastly, resign Martellus! I promise he will be the best TE we ever need in this offense. Good blocking, athletic... let Pope and Eli do the rest; he will be solid.

[Forenci]

I like Ansah quite a bit. I think with our staff and JPP to help him out he could be become a stud.

Kiwi we just need to make a decision. We've jerked him around WAY too often which has probably hurt his development and consistency. He needs to be a linebacker or a DE, end of story.

Personally I say DE because I think he is a JAG linebacker, but can be a good DE.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

We should be harsh! We are the best division in football historically. We are in big time media markets and have tons of history on both franchises. We are not some garbage team who have been bottom dwellers. We should expect nothing but the best. Look at the Cards, a flash in a pan with Warner, and now back to being terrible which is par for their franchise history.

Our teams aren't like that and so our fans shouldn't expect anything less then being good. If we are not it's a slap in the face.

[bigbluedefense]

It could be worse. We could be the Jets.

[Giantsfan1080]

Oh boy that would be awful.

Thankfully the Ravens are playing even worse than us right now while we go down there. Hopefully they don't run Rice all that much like always because the WR's they have are not nearly as good as ATL.

[bigbluedefense]

Speaking of the Jets, just watching how brilliant Rex Ryan is on defense with his scheme just makes me hate Perry Fewell even more. Can you imagine how good our defense could be if Ryan was in charge of it?

The scheme is excellent. Perfect for our team. It's really frustrating to see how unimaginative our defense is.

Now that doesn't excuse our players at all, we don't tackle well, we don't cover well, and our DL gives inconsistent effort. So the issues are more on the players than the scheme, but the scheme doesn't do anything to help matters either.

I just wish we used some of the zone blitz concepts that Ryan uses. We are such a basic (from a pressure standpoint) that relies way too much on our front 4.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I do like the blitz packages and how you don't know who is coming or who is dropping. Also... God, Sanchez is soooooooo bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Giantsfan1080]

Maybe the D will decide to step it up finally going against an offense that's a complte mess. The way we tackle watch Rice go for 200 on us though.

[Forenci]

Haha, yes being a Jets fan would be awful. All the Jets fans on the board are pretty cool but my god do I hate almost all of them I know. When they're winning they won't shut up and think they're guaranteed a Super Bowl and when they're losing its the end of the world and they're depressing and cynical as hell.

And Sanchez is so terrible. Always has been. If he hadn't been carried to two AFC championship games in his first two years no one would even give him a second thought. People to seem to think that was a result of him in some way, when it was really just a result of an amazing defense and run game.

They really need to start Tebow. Their seasons is over and Sanchez is god awful. Tebow isn't better, but who cares at this point?

Well that's enough Jets ranting. I want Ansah sooo bad. He could easily play inside on a lot of downs as he has experience at the position in college too.