MVP as we head out of November

[prock]

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

JJ Watt could break the sack record he faces Minnesota and the Colts again. Could easily get 5 sacks in that time period bring his sack total to 24.5. Apparently he already broke the sack record for a 3-4 D-lineman. He is 8th in the league with 15 pass deflections..the next closest non DB is London Fletcher...at 47th. Also leads the league in tackles for loss.

Well, the Vikings might not throw the ball enough for him to get a few sacks. I could see at least two against the Colts though. Luck will be huckin' it.

[49erNation85]

Just any one besides Peyton Manning. Man it wouldn't be fair.OH lets give him the automatic bid because he brought the Broncos back to the play offs and can complete passes all the time. It should be some way more impressive..

[Ness]

Originally Posted by SeanTaylorRIP

Correction it was actually 2066 yards so he fell only 39 yards short of Dickerson's record. He needed 153 yards against the steelers to set the record but rushed for only 114 and a TD but that win in OT did get the Ravens into the playoffs.

I still remember they had Erick Dickerson on live television on a separate feed from his house that they would cut to every so often because they thought Lewis was going to break the record that night. It was on the old ESPN Sunday Night Football. And the end of the night, Dickerson held up a paper sign that said "Record is still mine" or some rhetoric to that effect. It wasn't a potshot and it was actually a classy way to go about, but I just thought it was funny that they had a live feed with him essentially "standing by".

[prock]

Well, here's to him holding a sign saying "Damnit, well played Adrian..." or some rhetoric to that effect. Cheers.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by 49erNation85

Just any one besides Peyton Manning. Man it wouldn't be fair.OH lets give him the automatic bid because he brought the Broncos back to the play offs and can complete passes all the time. It should be some way more impressive..

Just because people get bored of Peyton's consistency doesn't mean he isn't a valid MVP candidate...

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

Updated Voting:

1. Adrian Peterson* 1,812 yards rushing, 6.3 per carry, 11 TD's, 8-6 record
2. Peyton Manning* 103.5 passer rating, 31/10 TD/Int, 11-3 record
3. Aaron Rodgers* 104.7 passer rating, 32/8 TD/Int, 11-3 record
4. Tom Brady* 100.1 passer rating, 30/6 TD/Int, 10-4 record

I'm confident in this voting.
The only thing I struggle is who I would put at #5 right now.
That's a debate that interests me, but this above? That's pretty solid right there bro.

Nice collection of statzzz you got there.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Nice collection of statzzz you got there.

We should make a poll of the top 2 for MVP vote just to see how long it takes him to mention Aaron Rodgers above someone else.

Do you know who the first man on the moon was? Aaron Rodgers! And I have the QBR rating to back it up

[WCH]

As a Packer fan, I just want to voice my opinion that Adrian Peterson is currently, without a doubt, the best player in the NFL. Being handcuffed to a crappy QB doesn't change that.

Rodgers? Pfffft...no. Not this season.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by WCH

As a Packer fan, I just want to voice my opinion that Adrian Peterson is currently, without a doubt, the best player in the NFL. Being handcuffed to a crappy QB doesn't change that.

Rodgers? Pfffft...no. Not this season.

I'd argue JJ Watt if we're arguing best player, value component taken out, but my vote would go to ADP right now as well. Watching the Vikings and Ponder play once is really all it takes to understand.

[Halsey]

Originally Posted by WCH

As a Packer fan, I just want to voice my opinion that Adrian Peterson is currently, without a doubt, the best player in the NFL. Being handcuffed to a crappy QB doesn't change that.

Rodgers? Pfffft...no. Not this season.

How do you compare who's better between a great RB and a great QB? It must not be based on winning, because great QBs tend to win more than great RBs.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I'd argue JJ Watt if we're arguing best player, value component taken out, but my vote would go to ADP right now as well. Watching the Vikings and Ponder play once is really all it takes to understand.

Agree with this. Earlier in this thread when I was arguing value is relative to each team I basically stated that if the Vikings finish middle of the road then Peterson shouldn't be MVP and I still believe that. However, if the Vikings make the playoffs I don't think anyone can argue that it wasn't on Peterson's back. That's what I am waiting on to make my final decision. If the Vikings get in Peterson should be the clear cut MVP

[WCH]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I'd argue JJ Watt if we're arguing best player, value component taken out, but my vote would go to ADP right now as well. Watching the Vikings and Ponder play once is really all it takes to understand.

I could get behind JJ Watt for Best Player, and Calvin Johnson is also semi-quietly assembling an all-time-great season.

I've always though of the MVP award as if it were the "Most Outstanding Player" award. If we're talking about value, it has to be Brady. That's a crying shame; because Watt, Peterson, and Johnson are having incredible seasons.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by WCH

I could get behind JJ Watt for Best Player, and Calvin Johnson is also semi-quietly assembling an all-time-great season.

I've always though of the MVP award as if it were the "Most Outstanding Player" award. If we're talking about value, it has to be Brady. That's a crying shame; because Watt, Peterson, and Johnson are having incredible seasons.

Here's where the issue arises pretty much every year. Let's all be frank, this is almost solely a QB award these days. However the best QB doesn't always mean the best player. Now you could argue that there are awards for best offensive and defensive player. For best overall player it's got to be one of those you would think. However as is often the case, MVP doesn't always win offensive player of the year.

I think the ambiguity around what the award means is why there has only been one unanimous MVP (see how I just J-Miked Tom Brady into the conversation ) and that likely isn't going to change because it gives the media so much to talk about

[Denver Bronco56]

I think the award is properly named, and it is unquestioned what the most impactful/valuable position is.

The award is not the heisman, or best player, or most outstanding.

Quarterback is the most valuable position without question, so why is there a problem with the best QB getting the award?

The best offensive player can get Offensive player of the year and like wise for Defensive players...

But I dont see the issue with how it is.

[Halsey]

The problem with having a "Most Outstanding Player" award is, like MVP, open to interpretation. It can be argued that being the most valuable player is the most outstanding, because he's helping his team win. Many fans seem to want an award for the player with the best combination of athletic highlights and pretty stats.

[Denver Bronco56]

The player with the best stats and the most valuable can/and ofter are two different players.

Think about it like this, the most valuable(impactful) player in terms of impact on a team could very well be a bad player. Let me explain... If Adrian Peterson goes off for 200 yards and 2 td's but Ponder throws five ints his QB play has a much greater impact whether or not the Vikings win, this is pure logic and how the NFL is, people are willing to mortgage the future for a franchise qb, but HB's come and go.

Calvin Johnson might get 5 passes for 150 yards... but out of the other 40+ passes that Stafford throws if three are intercepted or he has multiple incompletions on 3rd down that kill drives, that has a greater impact on the team.

I dont see a logical reason for thinking a player that puts up tons of stats on a subpar/mediocre team and at a less focal position should get consideration over a player(QB) on an above average/elite team for MVP.

Now with that being said, I think that a player(any position) that puts up a great year(stats wise) should no matter team outcome be up for consideration for best offensive player or defensive

[prock]

Without AD the vikes win like three games max. Seems pretty valuable to me.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by prock

Without AD the vikes win like three games max. Seems pretty valuable to me.

For sure, but if the vikes miss the playoffs how much value has Peterson really added? I don't mean to belittle what he has done on either an individual level or for the team, however surely the first goal has to be to get to the playoffs so you can at least have a chance at the superbowl which is the achievement for each team to aspire to?

And on that note, if you swap out Ponder and Peterson for Brady and Ridley, Manning and McGahee or Rodgers and Benson, would the vikes be in a better position to win? That is how I see value. Peterson has a season for the ages and the Vikings are on the fringes of the playoffs, Rodgers is having an average year (by his standards), and the Packers roster isn't exactly much stronger than the Vikings (IMO), yet the Packers are comfortably in the playoffs.

In a passing league QB is king

[gpngc]

I don't do it like that. I do it like WAR.

Vikings - Peterson + AVG RB = LOLERSKATES

Patriots - Brady + AVG NFL QB = Respectable

Broncos - Manning + AVG NFL QB = Respectable

This is obviously subjective because it's me projecting.

[BuckNaked]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

For sure, but if the vikes miss the playoffs how much value has Peterson really added? I don't mean to belittle what he has done on either an individual level or for the team, however surely the first goal has to be to get to the playoffs so you can at least have a chance at the superbowl which is the achievement for each team to aspire to?

And on that note, if you swap out Ponder and Peterson for Brady and Ridley, Manning and McGahee or Rodgers and Benson, would the vikes be in a better position to win? That is how I see value. Peterson has a season for the ages and the Vikings are on the fringes of the playoffs, Rodgers is having an average year (by his standards), and the Packers roster isn't exactly much stronger than the Vikings (IMO), yet the Packers are comfortably in the playoffs.

In a passing league QB is king

Rodgers also has about seven receivers that could be our #1 receiver.

[prock]

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

For sure, but if the vikes miss the playoffs how much value has Peterson really added? I don't mean to belittle what he has done on either an individual level or for the team, however surely the first goal has to be to get to the playoffs so you can at least have a chance at the superbowl which is the achievement for each team to aspire to?

And on that note, if you swap out Ponder and Peterson for Brady and Ridley, Manning and McGahee or Rodgers and Benson, would the vikes be in a better position to win? That is how I see value. Peterson has a season for the ages and the Vikings are on the fringes of the playoffs, Rodgers is having an average year (by his standards), and the Packers roster isn't exactly much stronger than the Vikings (IMO), yet the Packers are comfortably in the playoffs.

In a passing league QB is king

Rodgers, Manning, and Brady having good seasons is not more valuable than AD having one of best seasons ever and putting a bad team into contention vs nine in the box every play. If this is your logic it might as well be called quarterback of the year. The best player who is having the best season bringing a team to a level they have no business being in the obviously the MVP.

[P-L]

I think Manning, Brady, Peterson, and Watt (even though he has no chance) all have a decent argument. With that said, I agree with what gpngc is suggesting. If you replace either Manning or Brady with a Flacco/Cutler/Schaub-type, their teams still probably make the playoffs. If you replaced Peterson with someone like Matt Forte or Steven Jackson, the Vikings are probably going to have a top three pick in this year's draft.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by prock

Rodgers, Manning, and Brady having good seasons is not more valuable than AD having one of best seasons ever and putting a bad team into contention vs nine in the box every play. If this is your logic it might as well be called quarterback of the year. The best player who is having the best season bringing a team to a level they have no business being in the obviously the MVP.

Well this is why there is an issue with what equates to value. Best IMO does not equal most valuable. Rodgers on any random team gives them a better chance to win a superbowl than Peterson. That's just my opinion of value but its not like I'd be outraged if Peterson won, just wouldn't be my choice

[prock]

And what does it matter if he breaks the record? If he misses it by like ten yards does that make him somehow less valuable? Why does having a record make him more valuable than not having it? Either way he has been the most dominant player in the league.

[Forenci]

To me it's Peterson and it's not even close. It's much easier for a QB to have an impact in a passing league. The fact the Peterson is carrying his team as RB with teams completely selling out to stop the run is amazing to me.

Whether he beats the record or gets in the playoffs is irrelevant to me. He is the most valuable player.