MVP as we head out of November

[JRTPlaya21]

I want AD to win it just for the fact that Peyton already has 4 MVP's & Brady has 3 rings so share the wealth. Plus he honestly looks even scarier then he did before the injury. It's insane how much of a freak he is and Vikings fans are very very lucky.

[njx9]

i'd still vote for brady, but peterson would be 1b. if the vikings make the playoffs, i'd probably flip those. *shrug* peterson is absolutely incredible, i just think the patriots are 5-11 without brady, instead of a very serious super bowl contender. peterson should win the OPOTY unanmimously, just like watt should win the DPOTY unanimously (or maybe just in a landslide, if aldon breaks the sack record and watt is second).

[JRTPlaya21]

The Vikings would be like 3-13 without Peterson. We all know a QB is most valuable to a teams success but as the last guy to take over for Brady showed us even a monkey could thrive in that offense.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

The Vikings would be like 3-13 without Peterson. We all know a QB is most valuable to a teams success but as the last guy to take over for Brady showed us even a monkey could thrive in that offense.

are you serious? what year was that? a year off of the greatest offense ever? why on earth do you think that's remotely relevant in this discussion? or have you been living under a rock and actually think this patriots team is identical to the one matt cassell missed the playoffs with? it's unbelievable to me that people are still trying to force this asinine ********. or do you think it's relevant that the vikings were 15-1 without adrian peterson?

[JRTPlaya21]

No I'm not serious just felt like seeing how riled up you would get lol. Let's be real we all know Peyton is getting this award.

[Smooth Criminal]

If Peterson breaks the record he has to win it. I'd rather see him win it than Manning or Brady. They're having great years, but Peterson is carrying a team as a RB and looks like he could break a very impressive record in a league where fewer and fewer backs actually carry the load.

[njx9]

Originally Posted by JRTPlaya21

Let's be real we all know Peyton is getting this award.

i love peyton. but it would be a joke if he came any higher than 3rd for the award.

[descendency]

Guys. The MVP is clearly Kirk Cousins. He's an undefeated rookie QB. Way better than fragile RG3 or interception prone Luck.

[JRTPlaya21]

Originally Posted by njx9

i love peyton. but it would be a joke if he came any higher than 3rd for the award.

How high would you have Watt or Aldon finishing in the MVP race?

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by njx9

i love peyton. but it would be a joke if he came any higher than 3rd for the award.

28 voters in here don't find it funny.

[Mufasa]

The poll was almost a month ago. You should know that; you made the damn thread yourself

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

The poll was almost a month ago. You should know that; you made the damn thread yourself

Refresh it then.
Manning still is the leader in the clubhouse.....

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by njx9

are you serious? what year was that? a year off of the greatest offense ever? why on earth do you think that's remotely relevant in this discussion? or have you been living under a rock and actually think this patriots team is identical to the one matt cassell missed the playoffs with? it's unbelievable to me that people are still trying to force this asinine ********. or do you think it's relevant that the vikings were 15-1 without adrian peterson?

It was Belichick and McDaniels. They had Welker in the slot, similar running attack.

This team actually has better weapons on paper.

I think it's pretty relevant when discussing Brady's value right now on a team coached by Belichick/McDaniels with Welker in the slot.

Maybe not the greatest argument, but it doesn't compare to the 15-1 Vikes vs this year's Vikes situation.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by gpngc

It was Belichick and McDaniels. They had Welker in the slot, similar running attack.

This team actually has better weapons on paper.

I think it's pretty relevant when discussing Brady's value right now on a team coached by Belichick/McDaniels with Welker in the slot.

Maybe not the greatest argument, but it doesn't compare to the 15-1 Vikes vs this year's Vikes situation.

14 years ago you mean, LOL.

[AntoinCD]

The Patriots offense that Matt Cassell ran was way different to this years offense. It was based more on 3 or 4 WR sets and Randy Moss was tearing **** up. The benefit of having Moss was he extended the defense vertically even without having to run any routes based on the threat of him going deep. Seriously, we see teams playing cover 2 shells but watch games from 2007/8 and you will see CBs playing with 9 yard cushions and safetys 25 to 30 yards deep at the snap. This years offense is more based on a levels concept and stretching the defense horizontally to open up intermediate stuff. Simply because of Randy Moss reading defenses became childs play. The Pats have some great weapons (despite what another thread may say) but not someone who forces defenses to declare themselves pre snap like Moss could

[Forenci]

Brady has a big impact, but I still think with BB that team could make the playoffs. Who is going to stop them? Bills? Jets? Dolphins?

Doubtful. And I'm not a huge fan of that argument to begin with. If the Pats didn't have Brady other moves would have been made to ensure there was a competent starter as opposed to a super raw QB like Mallet.

For his position, for his impact, and for the fact he'll likely end up with 2000+ yards I think it has to be Peterson. To me it doesn't matter if they make the playoffs or he breaks the record. The man has carried the team at the RB position which is almost unheard of, especially in a passing league.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Forenci

Brady has a big impact, but I still think with BB that team could make the playoffs. Who is going to stop them? Bills? Jets? Dolphins?

Doubtful. And I'm not a huge fan of that argument to begin with. If the Pats didn't have Brady other moves would have been made to ensure there was a competent starter as opposed to a super raw QB like Mallet.

For his position, for his impact, and for the fact he'll likely end up with 2000+ yards I think it has to be Peterson. To me it doesn't matter if they make the playoffs or he breaks the record. The man has carried the team at the RB position which is almost unheard of, especially in a passing league.

I have no issue with people saying Peterson is the most dominant player in the league, or the best, or that he carried the Vikings etc

However, my only thing is, if the Vikings miss the playoffs then I don't see how he is the most valuable player in the league. The MVP is an award given on regular season performances. 6 teams from each conference get ino the playoffs. In my opinion, you can't be the most valuable player in the league if you can't get your team into the playoffs.

Like I said earlier, if the Vikings get in then for me it's a no brainer he has to win it. It literally would be a case of a RB dragging his team to the playoffs. However if they don't then what makes the Vikings different from the Jets, Titans, Rams etc, they are all sitting on the outside.

I also don't really like the argument of the Vikings being a 3 win team without Peterson, because well the Colts were a 2 win team last year and double digits likely this year. No one can realistically say how many wins a certain player brings - I don't think anyone will make a serious arguemnt that Luck has added 8 wins to the Colts. The Vikings added a stud LT in the draft this year and have a pretty good run blocking line. It's not as though Peterson is running against 12 men with only a center blocking for him.

The other issue I have is that for the first 7 or 8 weeks a lot of people were considering Percy Harvin for MVP. Yes him getting hurt coincided with Peterson going off, but for that first half of the season Peterson wasn't even the Vikings MVP in some people's eyes.

Give Peterson Offensive Player of the Year, give him Comeback Player of the Year, hell make up an award called Most Dominant Player of the Year and give him that, but in my opinion, I do not think he is most valuable

[njx9]

Originally Posted by gpngc

It was Belichick and McDaniels. They had Welker in the slot, similar running attack.

This team actually has better weapons on paper.

I think it's pretty relevant when discussing Brady's value right now on a team coached by Belichick/McDaniels with Welker in the slot.

Maybe not the greatest argument, but it doesn't compare to the 15-1 Vikes vs this year's Vikes situation.

and good randy moss, and completely different offensive personnel, and a more competent defense (10th in yardage, vs 27th, 8th in points vs 17th). you're an idiot if you think brady isn't valuable to the patriots because of 2008, period. it's indefensible.

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

28 voters in here don't find it funny.

cool story, bro. i guess he's totally the most deserving candidate, then.

[Jvig43]

We certainly didnt have a similar running attack. What so ever. Maroney was awful. Neither did we utilize the TE position like we are right now either. Ugh I dont even want to continue down this list. Stupid argument is stupid.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by Jvig43

We certainly didnt have a similar running attack. What so ever. Maroney was awful. Neither did we utilize the TE position like we are right now either. Ugh I dont even want to continue down this list. Stupid argument is stupid.

Exactly, our RBs that year were Maroney, Lamont Jordan and Sammy Morris. Jordan had a relatively nice year but the rushing attack was completely different compared to this year and the TEs were Thomas and Watson simply because it was a completely different offensive scheme and that position wasn't featured.

The Patriots offensive scheme has literally changed about 4 times since their last Superbowl win.

[gpngc]

[quote=njx9;3217390]and good randy moss, and completely different offensive personnel, and a more competent defense (10th in yardage, vs 27th, 8th in points vs 17th). you're an idiot if you think brady isn't valuable to the patriots because of 2008, period. it's indefensible.


Obviously I never said Brady wasn't valuable. I'd pick manning or ad at this point over him but wouldn't hate it if Brady won. He deserves to be right there in the race.

But 2008 is relevant to the discussion. To completely dismiss the 1 season belichicks pats did not have Brady would be silly if you're trying to gauge his value to the team.

Is it a perfect case study? No way. Should it be the entire argument or the sticking point that changes your decision? Probably not. But you can't just ignore it because they had different weapons and a better d.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

Originally Posted by prock

Without AD the vikes win like three games max. Seems pretty valuable to me.

Without andrew luck colts win 2 games

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by gpngc

Obviously I never said Brady wasn't valuable. I'd pick manning or ad at this point over him but wouldn't hate it if Brady won. He deserves to be right there in the race.

But 2008 is relevant to the discussion. To completely dismiss the 1 season belichicks pats did not have Brady would be silly if you're trying to gauge his value to the team.

Is it a perfect case study? No way. Should it be the entire argument or the sticking point that changes your decision? Probably not. But you can't just ignore it because they had different weapons and a better d.

The Pats have 8 players on their roster who were also there in 2008. Brady, Welker, Mankins, Connolly, Slater, Wilfork, Mayo and Gostkowski.

4 offensive players, 2 defensive players and 2 special teamers. It was also a completely different scheme. That year has little to no relevance on this year. People can say that the one year Brady went down the Pats still won 11 games, but if that is their argument to lower Brady's value then it really doesn't hold much water

[Jvig43]

[quote=gpngc;3217413]

Originally Posted by njx9

and good randy moss, and completely different offensive personnel, and a more competent defense (10th in yardage, vs 27th, 8th in points vs 17th). you're an idiot if you think brady isn't valuable to the patriots because of 2008, period. it's indefensible.


Obviously I never said Brady wasn't valuable. I'd pick manning or ad at this point over him but wouldn't hate it if Brady won. He deserves to be right there in the race.

But 2008 is relevant to the discussion. To completely dismiss the 1 season belichicks pats did not have Brady would be silly if you're trying to gauge his value to the team.

Is it a perfect case study? No way. Should it be the entire argument or the sticking point that changes your decision? Probably not. But you can't just ignore it because they had different weapons and a better d.

Your logic in this thread isn't consistent. First you come into the thread stating this

Originally Posted by gpngc

Why? What does Manning's reputation have to do with him coming into a completely new environment with all but what 1 new teammate and immediately making that team into a Super Bowl contender?

Then a few posts later you follow up with this

Originally Posted by gpngc

In these discussions I'll never forget Matt Cassel's 11-5 season or last year's Colts. I know that's unfair for many reasons, but I just won't.

Those are two completely conflicting statements, because you ask what Mannings reputation has to do with his ability this year, then directly bring up the importance he had on the Colts team which he isnt playing for any more, as if that somehow affects his importance to the Broncos.

I would give Manning my vote as well, but this argument is just so asinine. It has no bearing on this conversation what so ever.

[gpngc]

Idk I I'm tired or off today but I have no idea how those statements are contradicting. I think mannings more valuable than Brady this year and he has been for most years.

Both of those statements support that idea.

Maybe that idea is wrong to you but it isn't inconsistent.

Edit. Now I get it. You are completely taking the quote out of context.

Ness said manning would win the award this year bc of rep, not bc he deserves it. Then I replied that his accomplishments this yr by themselves are special bc. He's taken that team to new heights in his first year.