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Old 12-11-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
LonghornsLegend
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It seems like a really deep draft for guards. We should be able to get a really really good one in the 2nd or 3rd.
Exactly, and guys who can start from Day 1. If we can find enough room to get the best one in FA, I'd be fine going Reid, Guard, G/C in the draft in our first 3 rounds. Then probably RB, but that start would make me really happy, though I think it's obvious we have to go pretty hard after whoever makes it onto the market.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Does NT now become a need in the first couple of rounds?

Maybe Jessie Williams or Nix?
I would think so, there was supposedly some beef between Jerry and Ratliff so who knows if he's even back next year and the likelihood of Brent going to jail puts us in a bind.

We really have nothing in the pipeline and I think our hand may be forced.

Now, what kind of NT we target will probably be up to Rob and what he wants. He may prefer a 2-gap space eater like Jessie Williams or Nix, or he may want to stay with a guy who can make things happen in a 1-gap... like a Hankins or Kawann Short.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:36 PM    (permalink
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I would love someone like Warmack, but I really, really want Eric Reid. We need a field general back there. A guy who can see the entire field with sideline to sideline range, and clean up a lot of the mess. It lets you get more aggressive with your CB's in press man to man and results in more turnovers.


I know what the interior of our line looks like, but thinking off the top of my head, if we start Parnell at RT, sign an elite Guard(if there is one), draft another G/C in the 2nd round, I'd be ok with taking Reid in the 1st. He's an exceptional safety with great intangibles and would make our entire defensive unit better. G/C prospects are always there in rounds 2-4 to come in as starters.


We could go Guard and Center back to back in rounds 2 and 3.
I like the depth of prospects at both G and RT currently. Personally I am far more enamored with Kenny Vaccaro than Eric Reid though. Been watching tape on both and I think Vaccaro is going to shine during workouts. The idea of Rob being able to use his FS to line up man-to-man with slot WRs or athletic TEs has me drooling.

For me at this stage I'm looking for a FS, G, C, RT, and if a game-breaking defensive lineman falls I'll take a peak. I would sooner get fair value at any of the other needs before taking a defensive lineman though. I think Ratliff/Lissemore/Calloway is fine for next season especially if we take a project in the later rounds.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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I like the depth of prospects at both G and RT currently. Personally I am far more enamored with Kenny Vaccaro than Eric Reid though. Been watching tape on both and I think Vaccaro is going to shine during workouts. The idea of Rob being able to use his FS to line up man-to-man with slot WRs or athletic TEs has me drooling.

For me at this stage I'm looking for a FS, G, C, RT, and if a game-breaking defensive lineman falls I'll take a peak. I would sooner get fair value at any of the other needs before taking a defensive lineman though. I think Ratliff/Lissemore/Calloway is fine for next season especially if we take a project in the later rounds.
That's a good name, I need to watch him a bit more which I start to get into more around January. But I am a HUGE fan of FS's being able to cover in the slot, guys like Huff, Rolle, etc have such a huge advantage, if Vacarro can do that I'm all for him honestly. I think the intangibles, smarts, and field awareness of Reid sold me so much on him. And I think he has a very high floor with little chance of becoming a bust, but who knows.


Only reason I don't list RT is because I think Parnell is a stop gap. Not a longterm starter, but a guy you can give a year to hold the fort down and fill other needs, draft another one in the 5th round you think you can develop and then next year go at it early. I also think both of our tackles would play so much better without crap at Guard. Makes their job that much easier.
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Old 12-11-2012, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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That's a good name, I need to watch him a bit more which I start to get into more around January. But I am a HUGE fan of FS's being able to cover in the slot, guys like Huff, Rolle, etc have such a huge advantage, if Vacarro can do that I'm all for him honestly. I think the intangibles, smarts, and field awareness of Reid sold me so much on him. And I think he has a very high floor with little chance of becoming a bust, but who knows.


Only reason I don't list RT is because I think Parnell is a stop gap. Not a longterm starter, but a guy you can give a year to hold the fort down and fill other needs, draft another one in the 5th round you think you can develop and then next year go at it early. I also think both of our tackles would play so much better without crap at Guard. Makes their job that much easier.
Vaccaro can cover the slot and even better... he can effectively JAM!?!? Can you imagine if Rob rolls with some crazy 3 safety set in which the QB's top 3 WRs get jammed at the snap with Ware and Spencer blitzing off the edges. Add in he's an excellent blitzer and I want him. People keep saying he can play either safety slot but I want him as a FS. I think he gets blocked too effectively in the running game.

This one a complete breakdown from Football Outsiders:
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/fut...-kenny-vacarro
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I think Jefferson at OU is a hell of a safety, too.
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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I like TJ Johnson out of South Carolina. He's started for 3 or 4 years. I think he's going to be a very good pro center.

I like him even more after watching this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lI-F-MURlI

He's a big ole country boy! He needs to be a Cowboy!
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Old 12-11-2012, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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Great draft talk guys! I like it!

I started to think about NT immediately when I heard Brent's manslaughter case... and especially after the blow up between Jerry and Ratliff.

I'm a huge fan of Jesse Williams and I like his draft value. I don't want Hankins or Short or Jenkins in Round 1.

I haven't soured on Barrett Jones like some of you have, but I do love Braxston Cave every time I see ND play.

Gonna be one hell of a game to see Cave up against Williams. I'm anxious for that match up.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:34 PM    (permalink
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Great draft talk guys! I like it!

I started to think about NT immediately when I heard Brent's manslaughter case... and especially after the blow up between Jerry and Ratliff.

I'm a huge fan of Jesse Williams and I like his draft value. I don't want Hankins or Short or Jenkins in Round 1.

I haven't soured on Barrett Jones like some of you have, but I do love Braxston Cave every time I see ND play.

Gonna be one hell of a game to see Cave up against Williams. I'm anxious for that match up.
i like the other williams, sylvester williams he's a beast
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Old 12-15-2012, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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I am personally a fan of drafting a conventional NT early this year, my favorite is Jenkins for sure, versatility wise Hankins may be the best choice because he has experience at 5 tech in a 3 man front. My train of thought is about protecting and maximizing the abilities of our best players. Having a big plug in the middle allows Carter/Lee to chase in pursuit with less chance of lineman at the second level. Also, having a body the can collapse the interior pocket prevents a QB from stepping up and turns pressures into sacks increasing the productivity of Spencer/Ware on the outside.

I don't hate the combination of Lissemore and Ratliff but I think they can be better utilized platooning LE and third down NT to create the best matchups.

Something that I wanted to bounce off you guys is thoughts on David Amerson now that he has officially declared. He has really fallen out of favor with a lot of people in the draft forums after a huge let up from his impressive sophmore campain but offers good positional versatility that our staff likes. Ultimately, I think his best position is at safety where he can attack the ball in zone coverage and use his impressive length against tight ends. Does anyone like his value in the mid-late 2nd round if he is still available ?
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:02 PM    (permalink
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Johnathan Hankins 6'3 335lbs, NT Ohio St Conventional NT that can play in both one gap and two gap schemes.. has experience kicking out to 5 tech in a three man front.. very good natural strength and explosion off of the ball.. keeps his eyes in the backfield and does a nice job of locating the ball. Occasionially gets away with playing with a high pad level and doesn't use his hands enough to fight off lineman. Has potential to develop into a three down player if he continues to develop pass rush moves.

Barrett Jones 6'5 302, C/G Alabama Smart, technically sound player that has the type of positional flexibility that Garrett loves...Can play any position on the interior and RT in a pinch.. Isn't an elite athlete but more then makes up for that with good angles and footwork... Has frame to work with and put on another 10-15 lbs of good weight. JG has a relationship with Coach Saban and if he is on the clock I would be very surprised if he wasn't the selection.

Marcus Lattimore 6'0 232, RB South Carolina Looked to be a first round pick early in his career but has dealt with two injury riddled seasons involving damaged ACL's and a dislocated knee cap. Although he is on track for a full recovery teams might be cold on a guy who is injury prone and has never displayed elite speed to break the big play. When healthy he is a north/south runner who can hit the hole and grind out tough yardage... Also displays soft hands out of the backfield and has a big body to pick up linebackers in pass protection.

Terry Hawthorne 6'0 190, CB Illinois Good Athlete with excellent ball skills who's development has been stunted by spliting time at WR and being nicked up through his career. Really has a chance to turn into a playmaker with exclusive practice time at one position. Fluid and can help out in the slot, outside and possible FS after he feels comfortable in zone coverage.

Collin Klein 6'5 220, WR KSU Klein at WR!?!?! Early in his career Kansas State would use him in redzone packages as a jump ball threat. He has shown that he is a tough runner and I think he will run sub 4.7 at the combine. Developmental guy who offers something our WR corps does not currently have, elite size. Also could serve as an emergency backup QB.

Tanner Hawkinson 6'5 291, OT Kansas Three year starter with experience at LT/RT and was the leader along the o-line. Has good feet and a good frame to add weight too. Needs to play with better balance and add strength but has the physical tools to develop into a solid reserve.

John Boyett 5'10 205, S Oregon Tough and experience with good awareness in both coverage/run support. Can come in immediately and help special teams and grow into a solid back up at free safety. Undersized, less then stellar athlete, and injury history knock him this far down the board.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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Johnathan Hankins 6'3 335lbs, NT Ohio St Conventional NT that can play in both one gap and two gap schemes.. has experience kicking out to 5 tech in a three man front.. very good natural strength and explosion off of the ball.. keeps his eyes in the backfield and does a nice job of locating the ball. Occasionially gets away with playing with a high pad level and doesn't use his hands enough to fight off lineman. Has potential to develop into a three down player if he continues to develop pass rush moves.

Barrett Jones 6'5 302, C/G Alabama Smart, technically sound player that has the type of positional flexibility that Garrett loves...Can play any position on the interior and RT in a pinch.. Isn't an elite athlete but more then makes up for that with good angles and footwork... Has frame to work with and put on another 10-15 lbs of good weight. JG has a relationship with Coach Saban and if he is on the clock I would be very surprised if he wasn't the selection.

Marcus Lattimore 6'0 232, RB South Carolina Looked to be a first round pick early in his career but has dealt with two injury riddled seasons involving damaged ACL's and a dislocated knee cap. Although he is on track for a full recovery teams might be cold on a guy who is injury prone and has never displayed elite speed to break the big play. When healthy he is a north/south runner who can hit the hole and grind out tough yardage... Also displays soft hands out of the backfield and has a big body to pick up linebackers in pass protection.

Terry Hawthorne 6'0 190, CB Illinois Good Athlete with excellent ball skills who's development has been stunted by spliting time at WR and being nicked up through his career. Really has a chance to turn into a playmaker with exclusive practice time at one position. Fluid and can help out in the slot, outside and possible FS after he feels comfortable in zone coverage.

Collin Klein 6'5 220, WR KSU Klein at WR!?!?! Early in his career Kansas State would use him in redzone packages as a jump ball threat. He has shown that he is a tough runner and I think he will run sub 4.7 at the combine. Developmental guy who offers something our WR corps does not currently have, elite size. Also could serve as an emergency backup QB.

Tanner Hawkinson 6'5 291, OT Kansas Three year starter with experience at LT/RT and was the leader along the o-line. Has good feet and a good frame to add weight too. Needs to play with better balance and add strength but has the physical tools to develop into a solid reserve.

John Boyett 5'10 205, S Oregon Tough and experience with good awareness in both coverage/run support. Can come in immediately and help special teams and grow into a solid back up at free safety. Undersized, less then stellar athlete, and injury history knock him this far down the board.
I don't think we have a shot to land Hankins. Never know though. I agree NT is up there on the needs list. My gut says Barrett Jones for us in the 2nd is too good to be true as well. I have hopes for it though. As for Lattimore, I'd rather just pass on him. Same on Klein. I don't like QB to WR projects. The position is way too specialized and demanding. I don't know who Hawethorne or Hawkinson are. I hope we address S earlier than Round 7. I can't take McCray in coverage anymore.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:46 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sold on B Jones. I can't get out of my mind him getting worn out in that A&M game. I think he's got a chance to be good, but I'm not convinced he comes in and supplants Costa, as crazy as that sounds.

I think we need to get one of those stud guards.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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I am personally a fan of drafting a conventional NT early this year, my favorite is Jenkins for sure, versatility wise Hankins may be the best choice because he has experience at 5 tech in a 3 man front. My train of thought is about protecting and maximizing the abilities of our best players. Having a big plug in the middle allows Carter/Lee to chase in pursuit with less chance of lineman at the second level. Also, having a body the can collapse the interior pocket prevents a QB from stepping up and turns pressures into sacks increasing the productivity of Spencer/Ware on the outside.

I don't hate the combination of Lissemore and Ratliff but I think they can be better utilized platooning LE and third down NT to create the best matchups.

Something that I wanted to bounce off you guys is thoughts on David Amerson now that he has officially declared. He has really fallen out of favor with a lot of people in the draft forums after a huge let up from his impressive sophmore campain but offers good positional versatility that our staff likes. Ultimately, I think his best position is at safety where he can attack the ball in zone coverage and use his impressive length against tight ends. Does anyone like his value in the mid-late 2nd round if he is still available ?
i was thinking along the same lines of our first round pick. i don't see a can't miss 3-4 end like brockers last year, but we do need more disruption from the middle. i personally like sylvester williams more myself.

as for amerson i was thinking about doing another mock and amerson is definitely on my radar in the 2nd round. i saw an article from mel kiper a couple week ago in his opinion amerson stock has dropped all the way to maybe to the 3rd round as of now. so who knows where he's gonna go at this point
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Johnathan Hankins 6'3 335lbs, NT Ohio St Conventional NT that can play in both one gap and two gap schemes.. has experience kicking out to 5 tech in a three man front.. very good natural strength and explosion off of the ball.. keeps his eyes in the backfield and does a nice job of locating the ball. Occasionially gets away with playing with a high pad level and doesn't use his hands enough to fight off lineman. Has potential to develop into a three down player if he continues to develop pass rush moves.

Barrett Jones 6'5 302, C/G Alabama Smart, technically sound player that has the type of positional flexibility that Garrett loves...Can play any position on the interior and RT in a pinch.. Isn't an elite athlete but more then makes up for that with good angles and footwork... Has frame to work with and put on another 10-15 lbs of good weight. JG has a relationship with Coach Saban and if he is on the clock I would be very surprised if he wasn't the selection.

Marcus Lattimore 6'0 232, RB South Carolina Looked to be a first round pick early in his career but has dealt with two injury riddled seasons involving damaged ACL's and a dislocated knee cap. Although he is on track for a full recovery teams might be cold on a guy who is injury prone and has never displayed elite speed to break the big play. When healthy he is a north/south runner who can hit the hole and grind out tough yardage... Also displays soft hands out of the backfield and has a big body to pick up linebackers in pass protection.

Terry Hawthorne 6'0 190, CB Illinois Good Athlete with excellent ball skills who's development has been stunted by spliting time at WR and being nicked up through his career. Really has a chance to turn into a playmaker with exclusive practice time at one position. Fluid and can help out in the slot, outside and possible FS after he feels comfortable in zone coverage.

Collin Klein 6'5 220, WR KSU Klein at WR!?!?! Early in his career Kansas State would use him in redzone packages as a jump ball threat. He has shown that he is a tough runner and I think he will run sub 4.7 at the combine. Developmental guy who offers something our WR corps does not currently have, elite size. Also could serve as an emergency backup QB.

Tanner Hawkinson 6'5 291, OT Kansas Three year starter with experience at LT/RT and was the leader along the o-line. Has good feet and a good frame to add weight too. Needs to play with better balance and add strength but has the physical tools to develop into a solid reserve.

John Boyett 5'10 205, S Oregon Tough and experience with good awareness in both coverage/run support. Can come in immediately and help special teams and grow into a solid back up at free safety. Undersized, less then stellar athlete, and injury history knock him this far down the board.
i think the cowboys have played themselves out of position to get hankins

barrett jones imo is a reach in the 2nd round, i see him as a late 3 early 4th rounder.

i would love to draft lattimore but he's gonna need to probably sit out a season and make sure his knee is 100% so the third round is unlikely b/c he's won't be able to play untill 2014 but if we trade down and acquired and an extra 3rd or 4th that would make sense to take a chance on him, i don't know about the rest of the guys so i'll have to look for some game film of them.

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Old 12-17-2012, 06:49 PM    (permalink
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I'm not sold on B Jones. I can't get out of my mind him getting worn out in that A&M game. I think he's got a chance to be good, but I'm not convinced he comes in and supplants Costa, as crazy as that sounds.

I think we need to get one of those stud guards.
One game shouldn't make or break a player. Not like Jones has a short record to stand on. I've seen him plenty of times and came away impressed.
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Old 12-18-2012, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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One game shouldn't make or break a player. Not like Jones has a short record to stand on. I've seen him plenty of times and came away impressed.
Yeah, you're right. I wouldn't say I would be upset if we get him, but I still wonder if he's going to get drafted a bit higher than he should because he's had studs all around him on that Alabama OL.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Dallas Mock 9.0 - Week 15 - Record: 8-6


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Old 12-18-2012, 04:51 PM    (permalink
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D-Unit- I don't think we have a shot to land Hankins. Never know though. I agree NT is up there on the needs list. My gut says Barrett Jones for us in the 2nd is too good to be true as well. I have hopes for it though. As for Lattimore, I'd rather just pass on him. Same on Klein. I don't like QB to WR projects. The position is way too specialized and demanding. I don't know who Hawethorne or Hawkinson are. I hope we address S earlier than Round 7. I can't take McCray in coverage anymore.
One trend that I have noticed since I started following the draft is that NT and Guards always fall down draft boards for some strange reason. Guys like Red Bryant, Gabe Watson, Alan Branch, Almeda Ta'amu, and Mt Cody all recieved round one hype at one time and dropped come draft time. Hankins might be a little different considering he has some better movement then the guys listed above but DT/NT always comes down to preference. I think guys like the Williams's and Short that have the ability to 3 tech have to potential to push Hankins and Jenkins down the board.

I think Lattimore fits right into our wheelhouse in terms of finding guys who can really play in later rounds. The staff clearly does a nice job of scouting injured players and does not mind rehabbing or even redshirting a player with talent. Within the last couple of years the team has selected several core players with injuries or injury past like Lee, Carter, Murray, and Claiborne.

I completely agree with drafting a safety with a premuim pick but I don't know if that is the teams M.O especially after the Chruch extension.

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CowboysBeastMode- barrett jones imo is a reach in the 2nd round, i see him as a late 3 early 4th rounder.
Barrett took a hit is some draft circles but he wont make it out of the second round based on versatility alone. The kid has played a new position three out of the four years in school, once he settles into one he will be fine. I think he can play center or guard for us. Even if he doesn't start he has value to swing all the way across the line in a pinch.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:35 AM    (permalink
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Barrett took a hit is some draft circles but he wont make it out of the second round based on versatility alone. The kid has played a new position three out of the four years in school, once he settles into one he will be fine. I think he can play center or guard for us. Even if he doesn't start he has value to swing all the way across the line in a pinch.
versatility doesn't necessarily make up for talent either
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Old 12-19-2012, 04:31 AM    (permalink
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versatility doesn't necessarily make up for talent either
versatility is a plus, and it will boost his stock. I think that's what W4HOF meant. will it mean he will be successful? not necessarily, but it will give him more chances to succeed if he fails at one spot.

i honestly don't get the talent criticism though. he's been tried, tested, put through the mill against the toughest competition in college football. if there was a clear lack of talent, it would've shown through more than one bad game.

i'll tell you where he'll fall short... when scouts use prototypical metric benchmarks to determine his worth... like judging arm length, 40 time, bench press. helpful things to look at for sure, but they SHOULDN'T be the tell all, end all. THAT'S where scouts get in trouble.

Barrett Jones will be a fine... heck, more than fine NFL lineman in the NFL for years to come. He may have bumps and bruises in his career, but he's close to a sure thing as you will find if you're looking for a capable NFL starter for the next decade.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:30 AM    (permalink
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I like that mock D, still unsure if they'd draft 2 interior OL early but I'd be happy if they did. Cooper would be a great 1st, he has experience at C too.

Also, I'll have to become familiar with Williams as he sounds like the real deal!
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Old 12-19-2012, 10:10 AM    (permalink
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versatility is a plus, and it will boost his stock. I think that's what W4HOF meant. will it mean he will be successful? not necessarily, but it will give him more chances to succeed if he fails at one spot.

i honestly don't get the talent criticism though. he's been tried, tested, put through the mill against the toughest competition in college football. if there was a clear lack of talent, it would've shown through more than one bad game.

i'll tell you where he'll fall short... when scouts use prototypical metric benchmarks to determine his worth... like judging arm length, 40 time, bench press. helpful things to look at for sure, but they SHOULDN'T be the tell all, end all. THAT'S where scouts get in trouble.

Barrett Jones will be a fine... heck, more than fine NFL lineman in the NFL for years to come. He may have bumps and bruises in his career, but he's close to a sure thing as you will find if you're looking for a capable NFL starter for the next decade.
what i mean is he doesn't have the overall ability to be second rounder. to me he is protected by the overall talent on the alabama o-line. he's not a bad player, but the fact that they kept moving him around tells me he probably not as good as the guy replacing him, too his credit he was able to move around and play other position and succeed, but barrett jones in the second round C'MON MAN
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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what i mean is he doesn't have the overall ability to be second rounder. to me he is protected by the overall talent on the alabama o-line. he's not a bad player, but the fact that they kept moving him around tells me he probably not as good as the guy replacing him, too his credit he was able to move around and play other position and succeed, but barrett jones in the second round C'MON MAN
I think I agree with this. I think he will be a guy that will be a solid player in the league for a decade, but I don't think he's a 2nd rounder.
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Old 12-19-2012, 12:25 PM    (permalink
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what i mean is he doesn't have the overall ability to be second rounder. to me he is protected by the overall talent on the alabama o-line. he's not a bad player, but the fact that they kept moving him around tells me he probably not as good as the guy replacing him, too his credit he was able to move around and play other position and succeed, but barrett jones in the second round C'MON MAN
Jones is a huge reason why people say that line has talent. You can't talk about how the Alabama line has talent then think that he lives off of it, he's a big reason for it. He'd be an amazing 2nd round pick and such a massive upgrade at Center, funny thing is we could go Warmack then Jones and I'd be ecstatic just the same lol. But Jones being a guy we can use as a swing across the middle, or stick at Center, I really like.


A real center is a big priority for me, as is Guard and Safety. NT is pretty high too sadly, JBR was our future starter there.
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