MVP as we head out of November - Page 12

Denver Bronco56 · 12-19-2012, 09:32 AM

I agree Peterson is the best player, but again I do not think ANY hb is the most valuable player in the NFL(in todays game)

J-Mike88 · 12-19-2012, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Sanders Dreadlock

Without andrew luck colts win 2 games

If they had Curtis Painter, yeah.
Not if they had Russell Wilson, or Matt Flynn.

FUNBUNCHER · 12-19-2012, 05:30 PM

I think for a RB to be MVP he needs to have a season like Ladainian Tomlinson had in 2006 when he won it; 1816 yds rushing/28 TDs/56 catches for 506 yds/3 TDs.

For a RB to win I think he has to do more than gain yards, he needs to score.

TACKLE · 12-19-2012, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

For a RB to win I think he has to do more than gain yards, he needs to score.

I guarantee that the Chargers were in the redzone FAR more that year than the Vikings have been this year. Not really a fair comparison.

Also, I know RB's aren't valuable but we all agree that Minnesota would be a strong contender for the #1 pick and not a 8-6 team if it wasn't for Peterson, right?

Forenci · 12-19-2012, 06:03 PM

Not to mention the Chargers were LOADED on offense, giving Tomlinson a million more opportunities because his QB could actually get them in the red zone.

Mufasa · 12-19-2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I think for a RB to be MVP he needs to have a season like Ladainian Tomlinson had in 2006 when he won it; 1816 yds rushing/28 TDs/56 catches for 506 yds/3 TDs.

For a RB to win I think he has to do more than gain yards, he needs to score.

Peterson is having a more impressive season than Tomlinson had. I value TDs over yards for QBs, but yards are more impressive than TDs for RBs. And it's not like Peterson has never scored. He has 11 TDs, good enough for second in the league. For the top RBs, TDs is all about opportunity. Tomlinson had so many more chances for easy TDs than Peterson. 23 of Tomlinson's 28 came from within 10 yards, but once you get outside that Peterson is creating more TDs on his own.

TD Runs over 10 yards

Tomlinson: 4
Peterson: 4

TD runs over 50 yards

Tomlinson: 2
Peterson: 4

Give Peterson the same opportunities that Tomlinson had in '06 and he'd be in the 30s. I know MVP is about actual production, not theoretical production, but 13 or 14 TDs is still plenty.

Bob Sanders Dreadlock · 12-19-2012, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J-Mike88

If they had Curtis Painter, yeah.
Not if they had Russell Wilson, or Matt Flynn.

Trolls will troll

J-Mike88 · 12-19-2012, 10:52 PM

Just checked into the official wagering line on the MVP from Vegas, and they tend to know more than people like BS Dreadlock, me, even njx9.

Here's what they have:

P Manning 2/3
A Peterson 6/5
T Brady 10/1

Jvig43 · 12-19-2012, 11:45 PM

Probably because Watt is a defensive player and his production has dropped a bit in comparison with his ridiculous first half, and the fact that Rodgers shouldnt be considered in the running for MVP this year.

Bucs_Rule · 12-20-2012, 04:43 AM

Vegas would read what all the MVP voters are saying about the MVP race and then base calculations on that.

Denver Bronco56 · 12-20-2012, 08:38 AM

Td's are no different for HB's or any other position in my mind.

You win games by scoring points, I dont care if you are on Defense, or a TE, HB, QB or WR..

Yards look good on the stat sheet but TD's(points) are honestly the only thing that has a direct impact...

If a HB has 90 yard run and then the QB throws an INT in the endzone what good does that run do for the team?

I would take a HB that puts up 1500 yards and 28 touchdowns over a 2000 yard rusher with 15 td's..that's a 78 point difference

J-Mike88 · 12-20-2012, 09:52 AM

Adrian Peterson: 1,313 Rush yds in last 8 games (most over any 8-game span in NFL history) #ALLDAY -- NFL on ESPN (@ESPNNFL

Ness · 12-20-2012, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Td's are no different for HB's or any other position in my mind.

You win games by scoring points, I dont care if you are on Defense, or a TE, HB, QB or WR..

Yards look good on the stat sheet but TD's(points) are honestly the only thing that has a direct impact...

If a HB has 90 yard run and then the QB throws an INT in the endzone what good does that run do for the team?

I would take a HB that puts up 1500 yards and 28 touchdowns over a 2000 yard rusher with 15 td's..that's a 78 point difference

Yeah I don't see how yards are more important than touchdowns necessarily. Peterson is having a great year, but it isn't necessarily better than Tomlinson's 2006 year just because he has more yards and is averaging a little more per carry. 28 touchdowns is absurd.

Forenci · 12-20-2012, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ness

Yeah I don't see how yards are more important than touchdowns necessarily. Peterson is having a great year, but it isn't necessarily better than Tomlinson's 2006 year just because he has more yards and is averaging a little more per carry. 28 touchdowns is absurd.

Tomlinson scored a ton of his TD's because he had one of the most potent offenses in the league. Stacked with talent.

Adrian Peterson has Christian Ponder...

Denver Bronco56 · 12-20-2012, 10:23 AM

Peterson has an astounding 8 touchdowns!!.... 2 games where he didnt score

Want to see impactfull/dominant or a player that had a direct impact on his team winning look at 2006 LT 33 Td's(Passing,Receiving,Rushing) in the last 8 weeks he scored 16 Td's along with 987 yards... you can take your 326 extra yards all day I will take the extra 48 points

Again yards look nice on paper, but points win games

Forenci · 12-20-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Peterson has an astounding 8 touchdowns!!.... 2 games where he didnt score

Want to see impactfull/dominant or a player that had a direct impact on his team winning look at 2006 LT 33 Td's(Passing,Receiving,Rushing) in the last 8 weeks he scored 16 Td's along with 987 yards... you can take your 326 extra yards all day I will take the extra 48 points

Again yards look nice on paper, but points win games

Or you know, having an amazing offense and defense wins you games too. Including a QB who can get you into the red zone and near the goal line. And one who is respected enough where you can't stack the box and sell out against the run.

njx9 · 12-20-2012, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Or you know, having an amazing offense and defense wins you games too. Including a QB who can get you into the red zone and near the goal line. And one who is respected enough where you can't stack the box and sell out against the run.

i think it's a lame argument, but to be fair: this is a guy who didn't score less than ten times the entire time he was in san diego. including a year where bad doug flutie was their starter. including years where bad drew brees was their starter. it's not like that was a fluke year that you can completely chalk up to SD's offense.

Forenci · 12-20-2012, 10:45 AM

That's fine, I just think with a superior offense, defense and a quarterback who doesn't suck Peterson would have likely scored more touchdowns.

And I don't really put much weight on TD's for running backs. A running back gets his team in position to help score points, even if he doesn't score them himself. That's why the yardage is so important. Sure he might not be converting the TD's himself, but there are any number of reasons for that.

And 28 touchdowns was a huge fluke. LT never even came close to that mark again. Getting those many touch downs is more a matter of circumstance than skill.

njx9 · 12-20-2012, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

That's fine, I just think with a superior offense, defense and a quarterback who doesn't suck Peterson would have likely scored more touchdowns.

like i said, it's a lame argument, and i don't think it's really relevant or useful in comparing the two. just needed to point out that phillip rivers first year of starting wasn't the only reason LDT had a huge year.

Quote:

And 28 touchdowns was a huge fluke. LT never even came close to that mark again. Getting those many touch downs is more a matter of circumstance than skill.

right?! i mean, he only had 18 the year before (and 17 the year before that), clearly he was a terrible, terrible running back who only scored because phillip rivers put him in perfect position repeatedly.

come on.

scottyboy · 12-20-2012, 10:56 AM

Peterson has 11 touchdowns though. So that's cool. Not sure how you mess up a stat such as that. Just my 2 cents.

njx9 · 12-20-2012, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Peterson has 11 touchdowns though. So that's cool. Not sure how you mess up a stat such as that. Just my 2 cents.

in some places, 8 comes after 10.

LonghornsLegend · 12-20-2012, 11:10 AM

Is there a chance that Brady wins the MVP, Peyton wins the comeback player, and AD wins nothing? Would be pretty weird if a RB and WR broke the all-time yardage records of Dickerson & Jerry Rice in a season but neither won an award for them.

bucfan12 · 12-20-2012, 11:24 AM

Adrian Peterson. There shouldn't even be a debate. He is the Minnesota Vikings.

Witten4HOF · 12-20-2012, 11:28 AM

I think by definition MVP needs to be between Brady, Brees, and Peterson. Without those guys their teams would probably be lottery bound. Rodgers, Manning, Lynch, and Foster all get knocked down a peg because they all have playoff caliber defenses that could help win games if they weren't there. I also think Matty-Ice has a playoff defense and has elite position players around him. You could make a nice argument for RGIII before Cousin's came in and put up really nice numbers and a win in his absence.

I hate to say it but Bountygate probably will push some voters away from Brees along with the team missing out on the Playoffs. Peterson might make NFL history but if the Vikes miss the playoffs it pushes him to a tight second.

If the Vikes make the playoffs I think there could be the case of co-mvp like McNair/Manning.

LonghornsLegend · 12-20-2012, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I think for a RB to be MVP he needs to have a season like Ladainian Tomlinson had in 2006 when he won it; 1816 yds rushing/28 TDs/56 catches for 506 yds/3 TDs.

For a RB to win I think he has to do more than gain yards, he needs to score.

For what it's worth, I don't know that LT has ever looked this dominant running the football before. You also can't just use stats in a vacuum without at least somewhat taking into consideration situations around each, because running for 2,000 yards with Christian Ponder as your QB coming off a serious knee injury less then a year ago is a feat all in it's own.

It's just like trying to wonder how many TD's Peterson would have if he played for the Falcons. Though 1 thing I think is interesting, is it almost seems as if now those 8 man fronts work against the defense with AD. There are so many people stacked up into the box as soon as he explodes through the hole and makes a slight cut back he's almost past everyone already.

Leaving guys further back to read the play might be able to cut those running lanes down and turn an 80 yard TD into a 15 yard gain. Seems like every recent highlight has everyone on the defense within 7 yards and moving forward on the snap, by the time he reaches the LB level he's moving way too fast and everyone is already chasing him. I've never seen any destroy defenses like this and run around people like they are college players. 1300+ rushing yards in 8 games is insane, and in the dominating manner he is doing it in is baffling.