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Old 12-19-2012, 12:14 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Brown Leader View Post
Too strong. On Crabtree. I just recognized he's actually having a solid season. It's just the hype on him was so high coming out and it's taken till now for him to just become solid. I'm biased. I haven't liked him since some guys on here wanted the Browns to draft him to make an Edwards/Crabtree combo-what a disaster that would've been.

Bernard. I'm not as high on as everyone apparently and he's got legitimate injury issues.

On a WR-Is Harris really that good? I thought Da'Rick was kind of a steal in the 3rd.


I agree mostly on Crabs. He's not an elite WR, a game changer, somebody who takes over games or anything, but he's productive at least. We've likely seen what he is, had he not gone to a school that made him produce such gaudy stats nobody would have talked him up into that type of prospect. Good, solid player but not top 10 good.


Interesting about Bernard. He looks great on film and from what I know he was only injured once, before his freshman year. He redshirted, then had 2 big years without any known injuries.


In terms of Harris, yes, he has been. He's been stunted because we want to force Ogletree the ball for some reason, but he's played well at outside and inside WR. He's a Davone Bess clone. Not anything you'd say you were excited about as a #2 guy, but he can fill in for Austin or Dez really well and he's still getting better also. Had some blow up pre-seasons, made some huge catches for us this year, and lately he seems to be growing into that role. Romo also loves Beasley, Amendola type who is just so hard to cover in the slot and always open.


It's not the player taken there at all, just more needs. I'd throw a fit if we drafted a WR in the first 3-4 rounds and didn't really have a place to put him, when Guard, Center, NT, Safety, and even more importantly RB is such a huge need.


Felix is walking, and there is nothing else there so keep RB in mind for Dallas. We can't go into 2012 banking on Demarco being healthy, so a Ray Graham in the 4th is an option or even going with a guy in the 3rd would be huge. NT looks wide open, both safety spots could use starters. While Harris isn't a guy I expect to develop into a future starter opposite Dez or anything, as a #3 most team would be happy with that and I can't bump the need up any higher until Austin starts to lose a step or 2. Though we may go bpa and I can't fault it, because we did put a bid in on Josh Gordon, but we have been going the UDFA route on WR's so often it'd be hard to see us go with a drafted guy before round 5 with so many immediate needs.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:01 PM    (permalink
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Re: St. Louis

Can't say I like this draft at all. Wormack is a solid pick, but to follow it up with a gadget player and another guard??? First, we have Chris Givens who is a burner. Second, Pead and Richardson are both speed backs so I don't see how a Sproles-like player fits in with the Rams.

If we took Chance in the 1st round, that would give us two solid Guards with Dahl. We need a stud LT more than anything. You're hitting the areas of greatest need, but just getting the players wrong.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:31 PM    (permalink
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Do you have Amerson returning for his SR year or going after the 3rd round?
After the 3rd. I saw a play from him late in the season where he basically quit on a play where the QB was scrambling for the endzone pylon. With just solid effort he could have stopped the guy from scoring but he let up and the guy scored. Beat deep all season and poor effort? I think he's at best a 4th rounder.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:43 PM    (permalink
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I agree mostly on Crabs. He's not an elite WR, a game changer, somebody who takes over games or anything, but he's productive at least. We've likely seen what he is, had he not gone to a school that made him produce such gaudy stats nobody would have talked him up into that type of prospect. Good, solid player but not top 10 good.


Interesting about Bernard. He looks great on film and from what I know he was only injured once, before his freshman year. He redshirted, then had 2 big years without any known injuries.


In terms of Harris, yes, he has been. He's been stunted because we want to force Ogletree the ball for some reason, but he's played well at outside and inside WR. He's a Davone Bess clone. Not anything you'd say you were excited about as a #2 guy, but he can fill in for Austin or Dez really well and he's still getting better also. Had some blow up pre-seasons, made some huge catches for us this year, and lately he seems to be growing into that role. Romo also loves Beasley, Amendola type who is just so hard to cover in the slot and always open.


It's not the player taken there at all, just more needs. I'd throw a fit if we drafted a WR in the first 3-4 rounds and didn't really have a place to put him, when Guard, Center, NT, Safety, and even more importantly RB is such a huge need.


Felix is walking, and there is nothing else there so keep RB in mind for Dallas. We can't go into 2012 banking on Demarco being healthy, so a Ray Graham in the 4th is an option or even going with a guy in the 3rd would be huge. NT looks wide open, both safety spots could use starters. While Harris isn't a guy I expect to develop into a future starter opposite Dez or anything, as a #3 most team would be happy with that and I can't bump the need up any higher until Austin starts to lose a step or 2. Though we may go bpa and I can't fault it, because we did put a bid in on Josh Gordon, but we have been going the UDFA route on WR's so often it'd be hard to see us go with a drafted guy before round 5 with so many immediate needs.
The thing about Dez is, one more incident and Jerry could let him go. He might try to leverage the position based on that possibility. Course, at the same time, that might mean a guy like Da'Rick is off his board.

On Bernard. Looked like a 2nd or 3rd round guy to me. Then I thought I read he hurt his other knee in HS. But, in any case, he reminds me of Kendall Hunter, who also went lower.
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Old 12-19-2012, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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Re: St. Louis

Can't say I like this draft at all. Wormack is a solid pick, but to follow it up with a gadget player and another guard??? First, we have Chris Givens who is a burner. Second, Pead and Richardson are both speed backs so I don't see how a Sproles-like player fits in with the Rams.

If we took Chance in the 1st round, that would give us two solid Guards with Dahl. We need a stud LT more than anything. You're hitting the areas of greatest need, but just getting the players wrong.
Good points. I didn't consider Pead in the mix. But as a WR-Schottenheimer is doing such a good job of getting the ball to quick footed types like Amendola and Givens-Austin is probably quicker then either. Also I think gadget player is undervaluing Austin. With Thomas, he projects to OG or LT.
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Old 12-19-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
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No LT!? (10)
That would be a pretty crazy draft by us. We couldn't pass on Lewan.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:08 AM    (permalink
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3. Oakland Raiders – Damontre Moore* /DE/ Texas A&M:
I thought Moore would have a strong season but he looks better then I envisioned. Huge fan now. They moved him to DE after playing as a stand up OLB last year and he's dominating. He's everything you hope Mingo can be. NFL comp. Willie McGinest
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3. Oakland Raiders – Shane Skov /LB/ Stanford:
Don't often gloat, but I was one of the few that thought Ro McClain was grossly overrated. Skov's the new man in the middle.
Not bad. But if DeAndre Hopkins actually fell this far, we'd have to take him. DHB may not make the 53 next year as McKenzie brings in more of his type of player. WR is very much an unsettled position in Oakland.

Could also see a RT going here.
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Old 12-20-2012, 12:57 AM    (permalink
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Do want.



Not bad. But if DeAndre Hopkins actually fell this far, we'd have to take him. DHB may not make the 53 next year as McKenzie brings in more of his type of player. WR is very much an unsettled position in Oakland.

Could also see a RT going here.
Once again, I agree. Or a DT if one slides.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:13 AM    (permalink
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Do want.



Not bad. But if DeAndre Hopkins actually fell this far, we'd have to take him. DHB may not make the 53 next year as McKenzie brings in more of his type of player. WR is very much an unsettled position in Oakland.

Could also see a RT going here.
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Once again, I agree. Or a DT if one slides.
I guess it depends on how high you rank Hopkins vs Skov but I like Streater and Criner. Then with Moore and Ford-just felt ILB was a bigger hole to fill.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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I'm assuming since you have the Jets reaching all 3 rounds that Tannenbaum is still the GM? Awful Jets draft. Bray is a nutcase that has a strong arm with mechanical flaws, he isn't a 1st rounder at this point. In a class loaded at interior linemen, I highly doubt Winters goes that early, I can think of so many guys I'd rather have there. Jenkins should probably go around where Ronnell Lewis went last year, day 3.
Is Bray a first rounder? If he nails the interviews, no doubt. I think I'd feel better about him then Glennon. I only caught a glimpse or so of Winters but I was impressed. On Jenkins, that's funny because I loved Ronnell Lewis last year. But that's possibly a bargain there-I guess even 100% healthy your not a fan of his.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:15 PM    (permalink
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I guess it depends on how high you rank Hopkins vs Skov but I like Streater and Criner. Then with Moore and Ford-just felt ILB was a bigger hole to fill.
Yeah. I get you. I think with McClain on the outs an ILB really makes sense. Especially from Stanford if Tarver sticks around.

It's just that the problem for a long time has been that the Raiders have a lot of "nice receivers" but they just don't have that alpha dog right now. That problem will continue until they get a special player.

There are just too many first tier holes to fill. Throw a dart at a wall and you are going to hit a player that fills a need. Your guess is as good as mine as to which players McKenzie chooses in the draft to fill those needs. Any position will have solid reasoning.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:40 PM    (permalink
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meh about the first rounder with better guys on the board, flat out hate the saints third rounder given the board
Are you saying you would prefer Wagner? Not that I disagree, I am just curious.
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Old 12-20-2012, 01:44 PM    (permalink
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Are you saying you would prefer Wagner? Not that I disagree, I am just curious.
as an OT yes, but one of the georgia safeties, jenkins, fauria and rogers would all be better picks than long as well
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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I guess it depends on how high you rank Hopkins vs Skov but I like Streater and Criner. Then with Moore and Ford-just felt ILB was a bigger hole to fill.
Hard to call at this point. With the idea that we could flip to a 3-4 next year (McKenzie's defensive scheme of scouting expertise, Tarver (if retained) was a LB coach for the 9ers a couple years ago, etc), and the hope that Phillip Wheeler is retained, we could project he and Burris as the ILBs. Some think they want to use Burris as a rush LB, but I haven't seen anything from him this year to indicate that's his ideal position.

I like Streater and Moore myself, in spite of Moore's sophomore slump. Ford's durability remains a huge concern, though, and we still really don't know what we have in Criner. I'm hopeful he develops into the big possession/red zone guy we need, but that's yet TBD. WR certainly isn't my first choice of positions to address in Rd3. But, McKenzie is said to be a WR fanatic (Seems odd since he's a former LB), and you see the rate that the Packers bring in new pass catchers. Hopkins, at least at this stage, seems like a guy who'd represent a value pick there.

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11. New Orleans Saints - Kyle Long /OT/ Oregon:
Bushrod?
Last account I had, Bushrod was entrenched as the starter in NOLA. Hell, Kyle Long to Oakland would be an option if not for that DUI, and I really hope that doesn't matter. I sometimes worry that McKenzie wants to draft players based on church affiliation.

Fauria would be interesting, though I really have no idea where his value will end up being. TEs fool me by a couple rounds every year.
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Old 12-20-2012, 06:50 PM    (permalink
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Yeah. I get you. I think with McClain on the outs an ILB really makes sense. Especially from Stanford if Tarver sticks around.

It's just that the problem for a long time has been that the Raiders have a lot of "nice receivers" but they just don't have that alpha dog right now. That problem will continue until they get a special player.

There are just too many first tier holes to fill. Throw a dart at a wall and you are going to hit a player that fills a need. Your guess is as good as mine as to which players McKenzie chooses in the draft to fill those needs. Any position will have solid reasoning.
And also this.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:16 PM    (permalink
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Is Bray a first rounder? If he nails the interviews, no doubt. I think I'd feel better about him then Glennon. I only caught a glimpse or so of Winters but I was impressed. On Jenkins, that's funny because I loved Ronnell Lewis last year. But that's possibly a bargain there-I guess even 100% healthy your not a fan of his.
Yeah but Bray at 16 though? And the Ryan Mallett comparison doesn't really have Jets fans salivating either since Mallett dropped to the 3rd round correct 2 drafts ago? Its just not the pick. Bray and the NY Media may very well not work out.

I am fine with your 2nd and 3rd round pick though I am hesitant on Jenkins a bit. Give the Jets Eric Reid over Bray......Laron Landry and Y. Bell are FAs to be and if one or two leave, we are screwed at the safety spot.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:24 PM    (permalink
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I think Javi Arenas has done pretty well at the number 2 CB position. Not that it doesn't need an upgrade. I'm assuming with Dorsey leaving for FA the need for a true 34 DE would be a bigger need. Unless we move Poe to DE(which I think he'd be awesome there) and draft a big ol' hog molly to man the one gap position. I wouldn't be angry if we took a CB in round 3 either way..just a thought.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:33 AM    (permalink
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Not my favorite Miami draft, but not terrible either. Eifert is WAAAAAAYYYY too high in the top 15.
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Old 12-21-2012, 12:42 AM    (permalink
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Yeah but Bray at 16 though? And the Ryan Mallett comparison doesn't really have Jets fans salivating either since Mallett dropped to the 3rd round correct 2 drafts ago? Its just not the pick. Bray and the NY Media may very well not work out.

I am fine with your 2nd and 3rd round pick though I am hesitant on Jenkins a bit. Give the Jets Eric Reid over Bray......Laron Landry and Y. Bell are FAs to be and if one or two leave, we are screwed at the safety spot.
But....who's the QB?
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Old 12-21-2012, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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9. Buffalo Bills - Geno Smith /QB/ West Virginia
Smith's confidence has taken a major hit during WVU's losing skid. He looks rattled and it's affected his accuracy and decision making. Still, his physical skills and arm talent are solid, and he generally shows great poise and always top notch work ethic. NFL comp. Andy Dalton

13. Buffalo Bills – Sam Montgomery* /DE/ LSU:
Another guy I'm not really sold on but it's hard to tell with all the talent on LSU. Certainly took a hit to his stock after A&M. NFL comp. (taller) Brandon Graham

14. Minnesota Vikings – Khassem Greene /OLB/ Rutgers:
Former safety who's become a dominant defender and arguably the top OLB in the draft.

25. Baltimore Ravens – Robert Woods* /WR/ USC:
Woods is now the forgotten guy with Lee breaking out. What I like most is his toughness. NFL comp. Santonio Holmes

12. Buffalo Bills – Gavin Escobar* /TE/ San Diego St
Bills have been missing on an athletic TE since forever. NFL Comp. Jason Witten

16. New York Jets - Kyle Van Noy* /OLB/ BYU:
Monster bowl game should have him declaring.
*previous Brandon Jenkins

18. Pittsburgh Steelers – Andrew Jackson*/LB/Western Kentucky:
Small school destroyer looks like he could fit.

22. Miami Dolphins (CHI) – Da'Rick Rogers* /WR/ Tenn. Tech:
Should probably stay another year but circumstances might have him declaring. NFL Comp. Kenny Britt
*previous: Emory Blake

32. Denver Broncos - Quinton Patton /WR/ Louisiana Tech:
Generating some late season buzz and will have to prove himself senior week. NFL Comp. Cecil Shorts
1st Round - Smith in the first appears ideal, especially if Gailey stays. Makes sense, although your commentary on him is pretty much the reason I dont like him in the first at all. If he gets rattled in college, what happens when the pressure is on in the NFL? IMO his game does not translate well to the NFL in this regard, I am doing my "2nd take" on him next week hopefully. Which leads me to this...
Just did my "2nd take" on Ryan Nassib, and was extremely impressed (offense looks alot like New Orleans...). So much that I moved him ahead of Wilson for my #1 QB (its close), still have to do the same for Glennon, Smith and Barkley, but after watching Nassib against N.Western, USC, Rutgers, Louisville and Mizzu was wowed, what are your thoughts on him?
2nd Round - Montgomery to me is over rated, the A & M game was very telling, he certainly has a high motor, and is a 110% effort guy, who plays with alot of intensity and passion, with some nice physical abilities and long arms. No real swim or spin move, bull rush is voided by those with any strength, tends to latch on, and is not a "hands" guy, nor overly athletic. Maybe with some development in the strength department, a solid base end who makes a play here and there, not a first rounder IMO, and I have him as a second round guy now, and falling. Actually reminds me of Chris Kelsey... BTW, I am a LSU fan, who loves his leadership and tenacity. The LB play in Buffalo has been atrocious this year, maybe worst in the league... Barnett is showing his age, Sheppard... IDK, a shell of his former self at LSU, Bradham is like watching an rookie, mostly bad, some good, maybe there is hope for him. I am a huge Andrew Jackson guy, and agree that Greene could be the best in the draft, and would take either one of them over Montgomery right now, WR is a big need and Woods would warrant consideration as well IMO.
3rd Round - Tried to watch Escobar last night, but despite his one nice catch was invisible due to Van Noy destroying the Aztecs LG who was playing RT...
I do however not see TE as a top level priority despite my agreance with your assessment of their TE situation. QB, LB, maybe LB again (depending on FA), and WR are clearly thier 3-4 biggest needs, maybe SS fits in their, and depending on Levitre and Byrd resigning G and FS as well before TE.
Depending on if they trade up, I can not see them coming out of the first 3 rounds w/out a QB/LB pairing at least, QB/LB/LB or QB/WR/LB would make sense, as much as their front was ripped apart nationally this year on D, the linebacking core was horrible and worse, aside from the obvious need at QB (which has been obvious for years), Stevie Johnson would benefit greatly from some help across from him in addition to a QB offensively.
Anyway, a pleasure as always, and lookforward to your response about Nassib :)
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Old 12-21-2012, 01:03 PM    (permalink
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1st Round - Smith in the first appears ideal, especially if Gailey stays. Makes sense, although your commentary on him is pretty much the reason I dont like him in the first at all. If he gets rattled in college, what happens when the pressure is on in the NFL? IMO his game does not translate well to the NFL in this regard, I am doing my "2nd take" on him next week hopefully. Which leads me to this...
I think Geno is going to really respond to good coaching and a sound system. Smith's got everything from a skill set perspective and the intangibles you're looking for. And Gailey's a good coach. If he ends up on a team like the Raiders or Jets, then I'd worry about him.

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Just did my "2nd take" on Ryan Nassib, and was extremely impressed (offense looks alot like New Orleans...). So much that I moved him ahead of Wilson for my #1 QB (its close), still have to do the same for Glennon, Smith and Barkley, but after watching Nassib against N.Western, USC, Rutgers, Louisville and Mizzu was wowed, what are your thoughts on him?
I've watched them against Rutgers, Pitt and UConn and I thought I saw mostly a pure zone read. And I'm seeeing more Brian Hoyer in Nassib then anything else, I must say. Actually, he reminds me a little of a bigger Fitzpatrick, but I think that would be giving him too much praise because Fitz is a solid to marginal starter and I don't even see that with Nassib-at least at the start of a pro career. I hate watching the zone read so maby I'm being critical but his arm looks anything but NFL caliber. I feel like it's in that Brady Quinn territory.

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2nd Round - Montgomery to me is over rated, the A & M game was very telling, he certainly has a high motor, and is a 110% effort guy, who plays with alot of intensity and passion, with some nice physical abilities and long arms. No real swim or spin move, bull rush is voided by those with any strength, tends to latch on, and is not a "hands" guy, nor overly athletic. Maybe with some development in the strength department, a solid base end who makes a play here and there, not a first rounder IMO, and I have him as a second round guy now, and falling. Actually reminds me of Chris Kelsey... BTW, I am a LSU fan, who loves his leadership and tenacity. The LB play in Buffalo has been atrocious this year, maybe worst in the league... Barnett is showing his age, Sheppard... IDK, a shell of his former self at LSU, Bradham is like watching an rookie, mostly bad, some good, maybe there is hope for him. I am a huge Andrew Jackson guy, and agree that Greene could be the best in the draft, and would take either one of them over Montgomery right now, WR is a big need and Woods would warrant consideration as well IMO.
Yea, I'm not high at all on Montgomery but was afraid to drop him too far. But at the same time I'm not overly high on Greene. If Art Brown tests well he'll rise, same with Jackson. A sleeper I like a lot is DeAundre Brown of Tulsa. I don't expect he'll be a high pick but he'll end up a steal in the mid rounds.

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3rd Round - Tried to watch Escobar last night, but despite his one nice catch was invisible due to Van Noy destroying the Aztecs LG who was playing RT...
I do however not see TE as a top level priority despite my agreance with your assessment of their TE situation. QB, LB, maybe LB again (depending on FA), and WR are clearly thier 3-4 biggest needs, maybe SS fits in their, and depending on Levitre and Byrd resigning G and FS as well before TE.
Depending on if they trade up, I can not see them coming out of the first 3 rounds w/out a QB/LB pairing at least, QB/LB/LB or QB/WR/LB would make sense, as much as their front was ripped apart nationally this year on D, the linebacking core was horrible and worse, aside from the obvious need at QB (which has been obvious for years), Stevie Johnson would benefit greatly from some help across from him in addition to a QB offensively.
Anyway, a pleasure as always, and lookforward to your response about Nassib :)
Escobar is pretty talented though. He blocks but has impressive athletic ability for that size-reminds of Witten. If he declares, it's not going to surprise me if he gets moved up to high 2nd round. It's just not the greatest draft for LBs in general outside of Te'o. A move up for him by the Bills works. Guess it depends on how they'll evaluate the QBs. Manuel/ Thomas, even Dysert would make a nice project for Gailey, if he can afford to wait for them to develop.
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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A QB with a 5th round value in round 1? The Eagles aren't buffoons... Are you crazy though? Worst Eagle's mock EVER...
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Old 12-21-2012, 04:07 PM    (permalink
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I don't like Jaguars draft...Im not a fan of Werner and Im not a fan of any of the QBs in this draft Manuel will probably be a 3rd or 4th rounder anyway
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:38 AM    (permalink
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But....who's the QB?
I don't rule out NYJ taking a QB in another round or if they can land Mike Vick(Which I'd hate but the Jets would like).

I mean honestly if McElroy shows anything....why take a QB with like a 2nd/3rd round grade in Bray when you have McElroy who may offer the same? I don't even think McElroy(Or Bray) can be full time starters but I'd rather have McElroy as that QB propsect than Bray if it means Bray costs us a 1st round pick.

Rex Ryan's job is on the line...I doubt he and Mr T.(If brought back) are going to have their jobs rely on a fresh rookie....especially one who isn't even a standout of his draft class.

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Old 12-22-2012, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I don't like Jaguars draft...Im not a fan of Werner and Im not a fan of any of the QBs in this draft Manuel will probably be a 3rd or 4th rounder anyway
Not a fan of Werner? Bist du verrückt!
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