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Old 12-26-2012, 03:44 PM    (permalink
gpngc
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........So who is kc actually going to take?
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Old 12-26-2012, 04:04 PM    (permalink
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It's December. Who knows.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:50 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by KaneMarko View Post
The Chiefs have tried finding QBs later in the draft with ZERO success. Also, they have tried getting FA QBs with ZERO success. They've tried trading for other team's backups with, again, ZERO success. They haven't spent a first round pick on a QB since 1983. And no DRAFTED Chiefs QB has won a game for this franchise since Todd Blackledge in 1987. Doesn't that just seem a little odd to you?

Between Dorsey, Tyson Jackson, and Dontari Poe, the Chiefs have 3 top 11 picks on their defensive line (although Dorsey is likely to be gone after this year). The Chiefs do not need to be spending another high pick on a defensive lineman. And if they re-sign Albert (which, if they know what's good for them they will), there really isn't any need to go after Joeckel with Albert and Winston on the edges.
So why overreach for QBs who do not look they will be franchise players then? Just closing your eyes and hoping for the best is a great way to continue to have a losing team. If this QB class was like last years then okay you have Griffen and Luck who had franchise potential. What QB in this draft have you seen that will improve your team? Just because getting a QB in the past with free agency or trade does not mean it can not happen. I guess people never learn from the Ryan Leaf picks.
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Old 12-26-2012, 06:19 PM    (permalink
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So why overreach for QBs who do not look they will be franchise players then? Just closing your eyes and hoping for the best is a great way to continue to have a losing team. If this QB class was like last years then okay you have Griffen and Luck who had franchise potential. What QB in this draft have you seen that will improve your team? Just because getting a QB in the past with free agency or trade does not mean it can not happen. I guess people never learn from the Ryan Leaf picks.
Maybe closing their eyes and hoping for the best is something they should try? I take it they have actually scouted QB's in past drafts and researched free agents in the off seasons. What has that gotten them? Still a not very good team, I'd say.

Like I, and others, have said - what good does drafting all the surrounding talent do when you don't have a franchise QB in place? They drafted Dwayne Bowe. Great pick. Legit #1 WR in the NFL. He's probably leaving. Still don't have a franchise QB in place. Drafted all kinds of O and D lineman. What for? The O-line can protect the QB, right? Settle the O-line and then get your QB! Well, wait a minute... where is the franchise QB? No where to be found. A good QB can make an offensive line look better, rarely can the opposite be said.

Luck and RG3 or anyone of their ilk are not in this draft class, correct. But those type of QB's aren't really in many draft classes... should the Chiefs wait 10-15 years in hopes of drafting the next "can't miss, sure fire stud QB"? If I'm a Chiefs fan, I'd rather go into next season with Geno Smith or Tyler Wilson or even Matt Barkley (whom I don't like that much) at QB then have the team bring back Cassel or Quinn or get a Matt Flynn or whomever.

Lastly, Ryan Leaf was the correct pick. As bad as it turned out to be.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.
Nobody is saying ignore picking a qb. Most of those saying don't draft one at the top of the draft would still want you to move up from 33 and get one. Take the BPA at 1. Then, move up from 33 to late teens or early 20's to get your qb. I've seen a few Chiefs fans prefer Tyler Wilson over Geno Smith. Seems very feasible to get Wilson by moving up from 33. Baltimore had a high pick in 09, moved back to 26. Then, back up to get Flacco. Why not be a llittle creative and take advantage of the process? Say Arizona signs a free agent qb and loves Luke Joeckel. Move down and get the extra picks. Pick the BPA. Then move some(prob not have to move all) of those picks to move up and get Tyler Wilson.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:18 PM    (permalink
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Why settle for a lesser QB just so you can get a lineman with the #1 pick? Why not take your top rated QB #1 and then go for the "BPA" with all your other picks?
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:27 PM    (permalink
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Why settle for a lesser QB just so you can get a lineman with the #1 pick? Why not take your top rated QB #1 and then go for the "BPA" with all your other picks?
Who says Tyler Wilson is the lesser qb? KC might like him more than Geno Smith. But, knows other teams don't. The BPA at 1 is a lot better than the BPA you're going to get at 33.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:32 PM    (permalink
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Who says Tyler Wilson is the lesser qb? KC might like him more than Geno Smith. But, knows other teams don't. The BPA at 1 is a lot better than the BPA you're going to get at 33.
How is KC supposed to know how much other teams like Wilson? If they like him, other teams may like him too. If Wilson is KC's top QB, it can be argued they should just take him #1 overall and worry about less important positions later.
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Old 12-26-2012, 07:57 PM    (permalink
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How is KC supposed to know how much other teams like Wilson? If they like him, other teams may like him too. If Wilson is KC's top QB, it can be argued they should just take him #1 overall and worry about less important positions later.
I want them to take their #1 QB first overall regardless of perceived value.

Well, not completely. Don't take Tyler Bray first overall, but if they love Geno or Tyler or even Glennon (ugh) then take them #1 and don't mess around and try to get cute with trade backs or hoping they're available at #33.

I'm sick of the same crap year after year.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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You wouldn't be OK with trading No. 33 for Cousins? I think he's better than any
QB this year.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:12 PM    (permalink
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You wouldn't be OK with trading No. 33 for Cousins? I think he's better than any
QB this year.
If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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in you opinion Cousins is a "franchise QB"?
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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in you opinion Cousins is a "franchise QB"?
He had a whole game and a half to showcase it too! Go Cousins!
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.
Well that was Pioli. Not the new GM.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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He had a whole game and a half to showcase it too! Go Cousins!
i know. this draft is COMPLETELY DEVOID OF A FRANCHISE QB, but Cousins is the answer. a guy drafted in the 4th round? even if Cousins is a franchise QB (which i don't believe he is), then he would have been worth drafting #1 overall by ANY team, right? so, your telling me it's more likely that Geno, Tyler, Mike, Matt and every other QB in this draft all bust than any one of them becoming good. i highly doubt that. the Chiefs need to evaluate the hell out of each 1 of those guys i just named and take THE ONE THEY THINK IS THE BEST. end of story. drafting any other position does nothing to make this franchise better in the long run
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:25 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I used to be that guy who hated reaching for qbs, but I realized that if you don't have a qb, your team isn't worth ****, and the longer you delay the process the more time you waste, because you're not going anywhere as a franchise if you don't have a quarterback.

So when you need a quarterback, get a quarterback. It's that simple. Unless you have a top 10 qb already in your possession, there's no excuse to pass on a potential franchise qb in the draft.
btw, i went back and read the last few pages of this thread that i missed. i think you and i just became best friends.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:26 PM    (permalink
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...and evaluate Cousins.

And if they think Cousins is the best they should probably offer a draft pick for him.

And I don't think it's ridiculous to suspect Cousins might be the best considering the college careers of Wilson, Smith, and Glennon.

I'm not saying "TRADE FOR COUSINZ SO YOU CAN UZE NUMBER 1 ON SOMETHIN BETTERZZZZZ." What I'm saying is that Cousins may be the best QB of the bunch.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:32 PM    (permalink
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I think Flynn will be better than Cousins if they both get a chance to start.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:35 PM    (permalink
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I'm not saying "TRADE FOR COUSINZ SO YOU CAN UZE NUMBER 1 ON SOMETHIN BETTERZZZZZ." What I'm saying is that Cousins may be the best QB of the bunch.
that genuinely made me lol. i used a great "internet genius" voice when i read it aloud.

to your point, you are right. Cousins needs to be evaluated just the same. God help us all (Chiefs fans) if they get done and he is the best of the bunch. just shot me now, if that happens. i am progressing toward the draft as if he is nowhere near the best available. i got my hopes high.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:45 PM    (permalink
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I think Flynn will be better than Cousins if they both get a chance to start.
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that genuinely made me lol. i used a great "internet genius" voice when i read it aloud.

to your point, you are right. Cousins needs to be evaluated just the same. God help us all (Chiefs fans) if they get done and he is the best of the bunch. just shot me now, if that happens. i am progressing toward the draft as if he is nowhere near the best available. i got my hopes high.
Flynn and Cousins, to me, are pretty much the same as the draft prospects. I'd evaluate them like crazy if I needed a QB, along with the college group.

Yes it feels less dirty to not draft your own guy, but there are success stories and I'm sure the people in Houston love Schaub as their own, as did those for Favre in Green Bay.

I'm not here to argue passing on a QB. What I'm looking for is the outlook/rough evaluation of __________ based on what we've seen that gives KC fans hope.

I just don't see __________. Who specifically excites Chiefs nation? Is it Smith? Why? Wilson? Why or why not? Glennon? Why or why not.

If I was a Chiefs fan, at this point I'd be excited to take a look at Cousins over those guys.
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Old 12-26-2012, 09:50 PM    (permalink
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Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:02 PM    (permalink
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Everyone is getting carried away. Just because none of the QB's in this draft class are Andrew Luck or Robert Griffin, it doesn't mean they aren't good. Give me Tyler Wilson or Geno Smith over some of the QB's that have gone in the top half of round 1 in previous years. If Gabbert, Ponder and Locker can go top 10, Wilson or Smith at #1 isn't THAT bad. Cousins fell to the 4th round...32 teams passed on him 3 times at least. He has one decent game and everyone thinks he was some top QB prospect coming out of college.
This isn't fair.

Because the year prior had so many dumb reaches at QB, the demand for QBs following the Browns pick of Weeden was extremely low. That's why Cousins (and Wilson for that matter) fell as much as anything else. No one thought they needed a QB at that point (Oakland, KC, Min, Jax, NYJ, Ten, etc. incorrectly).

Shanny even said he was shocked Cousins was still there. Well that was because literally every team in the NFL felt they were set at that position.

He was a pretty good prospect. He didn't have a sensational arm but he was accurate enough an absolute gamer - the heart and soul for some super competitive teams.

Now, being a gamer/intangibles/toughness is usually sketchy for a non-elite QB prospect because those traits can mean one thing at the college level but then not matter at all on the NFL level.

Which leads to his NFL experience showing that those things evidently did translate well in this particular case. That's a fair evaluation considering his performance in limited action this season and the rave reviews he's drawn from Redskins camp since his arrival.

So if you want to take Smith or Wilson over him, that's fine. But I'm not so sure he's not right there with those dudes as a prospect, which to me, he still is. I may be absolutely wrong but I'm not very high on either Smith or Wilson right now. I know I don't like Glennon and I still have to look at Dysert and more on Fales.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:28 PM    (permalink
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I'm wondering if anyone has even watched Cousins at this point.

Against the Browns, Cousins had tons of time to throw and had wide open receivers. He wasn't challenged once by the Cleveland defense. He didn't show anything in that game that he didn't in college. He's not a franchise quarterback.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:53 PM    (permalink
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This isn't fair.

Because the year prior had so many dumb reaches at QB, the demand for QBs following the Browns pick of Weeden was extremely low. That's why Cousins (and Wilson for that matter) fell as much as anything else. No one thought they needed a QB at that point (Oakland, KC, Min, Jax, NYJ, Ten, etc. incorrectly).

Shanny even said he was shocked Cousins was still there. Well that was because literally every team in the NFL felt they were set at that position.

He was a pretty good prospect. He didn't have a sensational arm but he was accurate enough an absolute gamer - the heart and soul for some super competitive teams.

Now, being a gamer/intangibles/toughness is usually sketchy for a non-elite QB prospect because those traits can mean one thing at the college level but then not matter at all on the NFL level.

Which leads to his NFL experience showing that those things evidently did translate well in this particular case. That's a fair evaluation considering his performance in limited action this season and the rave reviews he's drawn from Redskins camp since his arrival.

So if you want to take Smith or Wilson over him, that's fine. But I'm not so sure he's not right there with those dudes as a prospect, which to me, he still is. I may be absolutely wrong but I'm not very high on either Smith or Wilson right now. I know I don't like Glennon and I still have to look at Dysert and more on Fales.
you and i will have to agree to disagree on a few things. i think there is MANY more reasons why Cousins was passed up other than every team thought they didn't need a QB. the QB is the most important player on the field. if ANY team thought he had a 1st round grade and he was available when they selected in the 2nd round and they passed on him, they should be fired immediately. its 1 thing to let a QB go by 1once because you have targeted a position or player. it's another to pass on him again for any reason at all. now, we are assuming that he had a 1st round grade. i don't think he did. he was drafted very close to where most teams had him slotted.

and forgive me for not buying coaches rave reviews or training camp heroism. Matt Cassel had 1 full year of film to break down before we traded for him and he has been a training camp stud for 4 years. that all means diddly pooh right now cause we all know Cassel sucks. now, i won't hold Cassel agaisnt Cousins. they are each their own man, but 1.5 games of success in the NFL doesn't make a career. and succeeding in preseason and training camp means even less.

at no point during last years draft did i think Cousins was a franchise QB. i maybe proved wrong, but nothing to this point has convinced me he is worth trading a high 2nd, or anything else for that matter, for him.
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Old 12-26-2012, 11:21 PM    (permalink
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If the Chiefs wanted Cousins with a high second round pick they would have drafted him, so no, I'm not ok with that.

And I disagree that Cousins is better than any QB this year. I would take Geno, Tyler Wilson, AND Mike Glennon over him. Maybe even Matt Barkley if I was feeling squirrely.
Glennon and Cousins are probably about the same value as prospects. Difference being that Cousins is average physically in just about every way whereas Glennon has DAT ARM which to NFL scouts, of course, overrides all his flaws.
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