MVP as we head out of November

[Diehard]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

No, but at some point you need to step up and beat the best. If people want to use the fact that they have the best record of the 3 as a reason why he should win the MVP award, then you need to take the schedule into account. Would the Broncos be heading into the bye had they had played the Patriots or the Packers schedule?

Slagging the Broncos schedule isn't reasonable. They had the 1st place schedule, despite being 8-8 last year, and the AFC North and NFC South divisions on tap. It looked to be one of the hardest schedules heading into the season. Oh, and it was front-loaded because the NFL TV folks were afraid Manning's neck wouldn't hold up.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

Brady has more passing yards total, more pass yards a game, more long passes, better pass interception % and won the heads up match up. Brady has also a far worse defense. Manning is playing with another MVP candidate Von Miller what other MVP candidate is Brady playing with?

Von Miller is a great player having a great season, but he is definitely not an MVP candidate. And playing with a great player on the other side of the ball is hardly playing with him, if you know what I mean. Manning has a better defense, that's a fair point. But then adding he has Von Miller on top of it means nothing. Miller indirectly affects Manning by helping the defense, but he has no direct effect on Manning's play as a skill position player would.

[Brodeur]

JJ Watt and Geno Atkins deserve more consideration.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Diehard

Slagging the Broncos schedule isn't reasonable. They had the 1st place schedule, despite being 8-8 last year, and the AFC North and NFC South divisions on tap. It looked to be one of the hardest schedules heading into the season. Oh, and it was front-loaded because the NFL TV folks were afraid Manning's neck wouldn't hold up.

I just don't really see any wins that are that impressive to this point in the season. Their 2 best wins come against slumping teams that were both in losing streaks and really aren't that great to begin with. They were handled by the 3 best teams on their schedule, and have essentially played 3 teams that had some semblance of a chance against them since week 5. Not saying that the Broncos record isn't impressive because it's hard to stay focused and not drop an easy one, it's just that I don't really think the 1 game difference is something that should give Manning a definitive edge over Brady or Rodgers.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by njx9

in peter king's case, probably the games themselves.

Why so much jealousy towards Pistol Pete?

[49ers1984]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

Von Miller is a great player having a great season, but he is definitely not an MVP candidate. And playing with a great player on the other side of the ball is hardly playing with him, if you know what I mean. Manning has a better defense, that's a fair point. But then adding he has Von Miller on top of it means nothing. Miller indirectly affects Manning by helping the defense, but he has no direct effect on Manning's play as a skill position player would.

Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.

The Pats have run more than a hundred more plays than the Broncos this year and lead the league in that category, so your argument makes no sense.

ps. punctuation is your friend.

[Mufasa]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

Yes he is a MVP candidate pay attention. It helps Manning as the better Miller plays the better the defense plays the more Manning gets the ball.

1. No he's not. If any defensive player is going to win it would be JJ Watt. Von Miller has no chance at MVP, therefore he's not an MVP candidate.

2. That's what I said. But it makes no difference to Manning if it's Von Miller and a bunch of average guys or 11 good players. The defense as a whole can help him slightly, but a single defensive player means nothing.

[J-Mike88]

Originally Posted by Mufasa

1. No he's not. If any defensive player is going to win it would be JJ Watt. Von Miller has no chance at MVP, therefore he's not an MVP candidate.

[jth1331]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

Brady has more passing yards total, more pass yards a game, more long passes, better pass interception % and won the heads up match up. Brady has also a far worse defense. Manning is playing with another MVP candidate Von Miller what other MVP candidate is Brady playing with?

Yards aren't a huge indicator of being better, not when its as close as Brady/Manning. Brady has less than 200 yards more passing, with 47 more attempts. As such, he has more pass yards per game, a whopping 13 more a game.
Manning completes a higher percentage of his passes, has a higher YPA(Althoguh they are pretty much the same), and has 2 more TD passes with 3 more INT's.
While Manning has a better defense, Brady has better players on offense.

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I just don't really see any wins that are that impressive to this point in the season. Their 2 best wins come against slumping teams that were both in losing streaks and really aren't that great to begin with. They were handled by the 3 best teams on their schedule, and have essentially played 3 teams that had some semblance of a chance against them since week 5. Not saying that the Broncos record isn't impressive because it's hard to stay focused and not drop an easy one, it's just that I don't really think the 1 game difference is something that should give Manning a definitive edge over Brady or Rodgers.

The Broncos were "handled" in their losses? The same team trying to find an identity and get in sync with new players? A couple stops away from possibly winning those games by the way. Like it has been stated, the Broncos were careless with the ball early on and seem to be much better of late in that regards. Twice they fumbled in the red zone against the Pats, 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter vs. the Falcons, costly defensive miscues vs. the Texans.
You are taking for granted the Broncos have pretty much slaughtered everybody except KC since they started their winning streak. The Pats almost lost to the Jaguars last week, its hard to maintain this high level of play for this long without a slip up. I just think given what Manning has done to the Broncos, he is more deserving of say Brady or Rodgers this year.
My main vote would go to Adrian Peterson if he does get the Vikings somehow to the playoffs.

[MaxV]

I honestly think it'll be Manning.

Not because I think that he is the best choice, but because I think the voters won't be able to resist the whole story of him coming back to top level.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by MaxV

I honestly think it'll be Manning.

Not because I think that he is the best choice, but because I think the voters won't be able to resist the whole story of him coming back to top level.

I think the whole storylines behind some of the top guys is what is really getting to me at this point. At this point I think it will be between Manning and Peterson, although I do believe Rodgers is flying under the radar after a slow start. But the thing that will be talked about is the 2 guys coming back from injury like it makes a difference to this award.

I have stated what I think this award is for more times than I would like to count, but if injury is brought up in the mind's of people who vote for this award then they are just ******* idiots. It's a nice story but there is an award for being able to comeback from a major setback...it's called comeback player of the year.

The MVP should be based on value and play this year, not last year, not the fact that the guy was hurt

[hockey619]

Originally Posted by MaxV

I honestly think it'll be Manning.

Not because I think that he is the best choice, but because I think the voters won't be able to resist the whole story of him coming back to top level.

Originally Posted by AntoinCD

I think the whole storylines behind some of the top guys is what is really getting to me at this point. At this point I think it will be between Manning and Peterson, although I do believe Rodgers is flying under the radar after a slow start. But the thing that will be talked about is the 2 guys coming back from injury like it makes a difference to this award.

I have stated what I think this award is for more times than I would like to count, but if injury is brought up in the mind's of people who vote for this award then they are just ******* idiots. It's a nice story but there is an award for being able to comeback from a major setback...it's called comeback player of the year.

The MVP should be based on value and play this year, not last year, not the fact that the guy was hurt

I agree with both of these. Not that Manning hasnt been great, especially after the first quarter of the season or so when he got his sea legs back so to speak, but theyre going to vote for him overwhelmingly when its really not so clear cut.

I wouldnt have a problem with him winning it. Or Brady. Or even Rodgers. But to me this has to go to Adrian Peterson. not because hes coming back from major knee surgery. as was said, injury has nothing to do with MVP.

everyone says the qb is the most important/impactful position in football. and rightly so.

but that doesnt mean a qb is automatically the most valuable player in the league.

a team QB'ed by a bottom ten QB, no other weapons after harvin broke, and a mediocre defense at best is on the verge of making the playoffs. how? because AP is a freak. if you put an average back on this team, they have a top 5 pick. seriously. with AP they might get ten wins. TEN! with christian ponder floundering hard and trying to upend sanchez and gabbert as the most pathetic 'franchise' qb.

To me, its AP and then everybody else.

1) AP

2) peyton and brady
3) rodgers


i didnt include watt or aldon smith or any d guy because theyre never getting it so seems rather pointless. For this reason i usually dont care much for the MVP.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by jth1331

Yards aren't a huge indicator of being better, not when its as close as Brady/Manning. Brady has less than 200 yards more passing, with 47 more attempts. As such, he has more pass yards per game, a whopping 13 more a game.
Manning completes a higher percentage of his passes, has a higher YPA(Althoguh they are pretty much the same), and has 2 more TD passes with 3 more INT's.
While Manning has a better defense, Brady has better players on offense.



The Broncos were "handled" in their losses? The same team trying to find an identity and get in sync with new players? A couple stops away from possibly winning those games by the way. Like it has been stated, the Broncos were careless with the ball early on and seem to be much better of late in that regards. Twice they fumbled in the red zone against the Pats, 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter vs. the Falcons, costly defensive miscues vs. the Texans.
You are taking for granted the Broncos have pretty much slaughtered everybody except KC since they started their winning streak. The Pats almost lost to the Jaguars last week, its hard to maintain this high level of play for this long without a slip up. I just think given what Manning has done to the Broncos, he is more deserving of say Brady or Rodgers this year.
My main vote would go to Adrian Peterson if he does get the Vikings somehow to the playoffs.

I think we've all seen Rodgers, Brady, and Manning play better than they have this season which makes giving any of them MVP difficult over a guy like Peterson. I just honestly don't see any reason to give it to Manning over the other 2. I've seen most of the games he's played this season, and have never really thought to myself that he is executing on an MVP caliber level. He's a very good QB who entered a good situation with a good offensive line and 2 emerging targets. He's been consistent and has capitalized on the opportunities he's been presented. He usually takes his leads his team to 3-4 scoring drives per game, and his defense holds the other team to ~20. In a well rounded performance the Broncos have rolled over their over-matched opponents.

However, how is this any different from Rodgers or Brady? They both lead their offenses to the same kind of output every game, and in Brady's case his offense scores even more. Manning has a slight edge in QB rating over Brady, but in the end it's just a combination of statistical inputs. Brady's great game against San Fran 2 weeks ago was his lowest QB rating of the season because he had so many attempts and only 1 TD. Also, I generally believe the opposing defenses the Patriots and Packers faced were better than what the Broncos faced.

I think Manning's ahead because of the novelty of his situation. You can clearly see a better Broncos team with the switch from Tebow to him. However, throw any above average QB into that same situation and you're going to see a clear upgrade.

[MaxV]

Can Peterson win it if Vikings don't make the playoffs?

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by MaxV

Can Peterson win it if Vikings don't make the playoffs?

He wouldn't be my choice but other people disagree

[tjsunstein]

Originally Posted by MaxV

Can Peterson win it if Vikings don't make the playoffs?

Its extremely hard to argue that the most valuable player is on a tram looking in, but that record will play a huge role.

[Brodeur]

Originally Posted by MaxV

Can Peterson win it if Vikings don't make the playoffs?

I'd still vote for JJ Watt.

[49ers1984]

Originally Posted by jth1331

Yards aren't a huge indicator of being better, not when its as close as Brady/Manning. Brady has less than 200 yards more passing, with 47 more attempts. As such, he has more pass yards per game, a whopping 13 more a game.
Manning completes a higher percentage of his passes, has a higher YPA(Althoguh they are pretty much the same), and has 2 more TD passes with 3 more INT's.
While Manning has a better defense, Brady has better players on offense.

I agree that yards are not a hugh indicator of who is better but it is one thing he is better at.47 is not that much more attempts and one of the reasons for that many is he has to keep up with the defense giving up so many points.

The Broncos were "handled" in their losses? The same team trying to find an identity and get in sync with new players? A couple stops away from possibly winning those games by the way. Like it has been stated, the Broncos were careless with the ball early on and seem to be much better of late in that regards. Twice they fumbled in the red zone against the Pats, 4 turnovers in the 1st quarter vs. the Falcons, costly defensive miscues vs. the Texans.
You are taking for granted the Broncos have pretty much slaughtered everybody except KC since they started their winning streak. The Pats almost lost to the Jaguars last week, its hard to maintain this high level of play for this long without a slip up. I just think given what Manning has done to the Broncos, he is more deserving of say Brady or Rodgers this year.
My main vote would go to Adrian Peterson if he does get the Vikings somehow to the playoffs.

What has he done that much better? Yeah he gave the Broncos a few more wins then last year he should get credit for that but lets not overate him and make this out like this team was 3-13 last year they were 8-8 last year it is not a huge turnaround.

[broncosfan]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

What has he done that much better? Yeah he gave the Broncos a few more wins then last year he should get credit for that but lets not overate him and make this out like this team was 3-13 last year they were 8-8 last year it is not a huge turnaround.

The Broncos already have 4 more victories than last year, which in a 16 game season is a big difference and yes they won the AFC West last year as well, but that speaks more about the division than it does about last years Broncos.

More importantly the team is being talked about as a Super Bowl contender and favorite in a lot of peoples minds, last year the Broncos had a fluke season and nobody considered them a real candidate. This year with Manning they have a legitimate chance to win the championship and that my friend is a huge turnaround from last year.

[G Mobile]

You can't just look at the Broncos 8-8 last year and act like they were some legit team who won a playoff game. That is complete hindsight and false. Every single one of us were laughing as Tebow would laughably some how pull out a win in a game they had no business being in. They were barely winning off of miracle plays and they made another miracle play against a clearly wounded and beat up Steelers team in the playoffs. Every week the Broncos had to win on some fluke play at the end of the game.

It was fun as hell to watch but weren't even close to this current Broncos team. Manning makes them incredibly better. They went from a fluke fun sideshow to probably the leading AFC contender now. You can't just quantify those wins without proper context.

[Denver Bronco56]

Please don't be so ignorant and say the Broncos of 2011 were anywhere near as good as the 2012 team. The Broncos of 2011 I remember reading were one of, if not the only team in NFL history to get into the playoffs with the worst point differential in history. The D got alot of credit due to Miller and Elvis having good seasons, but they were mediocre.

The 2012 squad in the 3 losses they were outscored by a MIND BLOWING, BLOWOUT total of 22 points... Taking into account that Manning had not played football in some 18 months a little rust was expected, with the amount of turnovers and bad timing along rust we had in the first 5 weeks, I dont have a doubt in my mind the outcome of those games would be very different, But that is speculation.


The broncos are 4 wins better then they were in 2011, a quarter of the NFL schedule.

Tebow's Broncos were lucky(I was cheering my but off, but not something i could say hey we are DOMINANT), Manning's broncos are dominant, efficient and have the stats to back it up as well as the performance.



Also if you are trying to point out Manning's performance in the 1st five weeks as a reason why he shouldnt win... Take a step away from ESPN and the media that is salvating over Peterson and look at his 1st five weeks..he had 420 yards and an amazing 2..TWO touchdowns.

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Please don't be so ignorant and say the Broncos of 2011 were anywhere near as good as the 2012 team. The Broncos of 2011 I remember reading were one of, if not the only team in NFL history to get into the playoffs with the worst point differential in history. The D got alot of credit due to Miller and Elvis having good seasons, but they were mediocre.

The 2012 squad in the 3 losses they were outscored by a MIND BLOWING, BLOWOUT total of 22 points... Taking into account that Manning had not played football in some 18 months a little rust was expected, with the amount of turnovers and bad timing along rust we had in the first 5 weeks, I dont have a doubt in my mind the outcome of those games would be very different, But that is speculation.


The broncos are 4 wins better then they were in 2011, a quarter of the NFL schedule.

Tebow's Broncos were lucky(I was cheering my but off, but not something i could say hey we are DOMINANT), Manning's broncos are dominant, efficient and have the stats to back it up as well as the performance.



Also if you are trying to point out Manning's performance in the 1st five weeks as a reason why he shouldnt win... Take a step away from ESPN and the media that is salvating over Peterson and look at his 1st five weeks..he had 420 yards and an amazing 2..TWO touchdowns.

I don't think it's a matter of them being better with him than Tim Tebow because I think everybody knows that. However, relatively speaking he's not giving the Broncos any more than Rodgers or Brady is giving their teams. Just because it's new doesn't make it any more or less valuable.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

I don't think it's a matter of them being better with him than Tim Tebow because I think everybody knows that. However, relatively speaking he's not giving the Broncos any more than Rodgers or Brady is giving their teams. Just because it's new doesn't make it any more or less valuable.

look at the improvement on the Offensive side of the ball...It's not "NEW" its night and day , and on par with the explosive offenses of the Colts...with all new coaches and players.

217 completions
429 attempts
2434 yards
51% completion
20 Td's


377 completions
555 attempts
68% completion
4218 yards
34 Td's



taking into account that the broncos has gained 1784 yards, 17% percent more completions, 14 Td's(with one more game to play) i would say Manning is giving his team alot more...

[vidae]

A lot more than Tim Tebow, but not a lot more than Brady or Rodgers gives their team, which is what he said.