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Old 12-16-2012, 03:36 PM    (permalink
bearsfan_51
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Originally Posted by ramsrule View Post
I would think Edge would make it. He is pretty high on all-purpose yards list.
One name you are all leaving off is Roger Craig. He may not have the numbers but he revolutionized the running back position, and to me that is more important than most stats.
Bill Walsh revolutionized the position. Roger Craig was just there.
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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TD really needs to get in soon.
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JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:33 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
Ricky Watters should, but he won't.
Roger Craig was better than Watters imo. If Watters and Roger Craig aren't in the Hall, what chance does Jackson have.
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Old 12-16-2012, 04:56 PM    (permalink
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I wouldn't have put Martin in either, but Martin has a better resume anyways in my eyes. 5 Pro bowls, 5 All Pros, a Superbowl appearance, an NFL rushing title, & #4 all time rushing. Great player and his longevity and stability were great but the stats just don't do it for me. I doubt Steven Jackson gets another 4000 yards anyways.

I could tell the tale of the NFL without either player and not feel like I'm missing much. I know that isn't some concrete criteria, but its a feeling I can get a grasp on.
First off, he was only once an All pro.
The thing with Martin to me, the case I make against him, is he never seemed like a guy you were incredibly worried about destroying you. He had a nice, long career, but really never seemed scared of him.
I know its not a very good argument to make, but its like that with Cris Carter. Were teams scared to go up against Cris Carter? Not entirely. Tim Brown? Meh.
Michael Irvin? Teams were scared of him. Teams were scared of Terrell Davis running it down their throats, and then of course he got injured.
One small basis to measure a HOFer.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:00 PM    (permalink
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Teams were scared of Terrell Davis running it down their throats, and then of course he got injured.
Yeah, key point here. Teams were scared of Terrell Davis until he was a crumpled shell of a human being that can barely pick up a light jog at this point.

Part of being an athlete is staying healthy.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:09 PM    (permalink
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First off, he was only once an All pro.
The thing with Martin to me, the case I make against him, is he never seemed like a guy you were incredibly worried about destroying you. He had a nice, long career, but really never seemed scared of him.
I know its not a very good argument to make, but its like that with Cris Carter. Were teams scared to go up against Cris Carter? Not entirely. Tim Brown? Meh.
Michael Irvin? Teams were scared of him. Teams were scared of Terrell Davis running it down their throats, and then of course he got injured.
One small basis to measure a HOFer.
Martin was only once a first team All Pro. I'm not sure about the other years, but I'm guessing he made second team All Pro a few times.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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Shiiiiit, if fear was a component, Jack Tatum would have been in a looooong time ago.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:20 PM    (permalink
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First off, he was only once an All pro.
The thing with Martin to me, the case I make against him, is he never seemed like a guy you were incredibly worried about destroying you. He had a nice, long career, but really never seemed scared of him.
I know its not a very good argument to make, but its like that with Cris Carter. Were teams scared to go up against Cris Carter? Not entirely. Tim Brown? Meh.
Michael Irvin? Teams were scared of him. Teams were scared of Terrell Davis running it down their throats, and then of course he got injured.
One small basis to measure a HOFer.

I bet you every team that played against Cris Carter specifically gameplanned to stop him.

Same deal with Curtis Martin, in that opposing DCs prioritized shutting that guy down but they could rarely do it.

I bet if you talked to DCs who coached against NE and the NYJ, they would have a totally different opinion of Curtis Martin than many fans do.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:24 PM    (permalink
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I don't think teams were scared as Irvin hurting them more so than the Cowboys overall hurting them. If Irvin was in Tampa Bay all of those years I don't think the fear factor is as high. He was a great player on a lot of great teams though. Cater was very good on the field and a touchdown machine. That probably didn't sit well with defensive coordinators.
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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As a Rams fan and a Jackson fan, I would have to say no. He has a lot of yards, not enough touchdowns, and, quite frankly, just didn't take over very many games. The great ones take the game into their own hands. I remember a lot of games where Riggins, Emmitt, Payton, Dickerson...would just say "Today is my day" and destroy a defense that was designed to stop them and only them. I have never felt like Jackson was that guy, other than the occasional game here or there.

Now, if he were to play 4 or 5 more years and put together 13,000/80 along with 500 receptions, the argument carries a lot more weight, especially if it included some meaningful postseason games.
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Old 12-18-2012, 07:53 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he'll get in, but honestly look at his 2006 season

Rush:
346 Attempts, 1528 Yards, 13 TD
Receiving:
90 Receptions, 806 Yards, 3 TD

Great, great season for any player.... Too bad he only had one like this, if he had two or three like this within a five year span; he probably would make it. That 13 TD in 2006 is quite an anomaly with S-Jax, his next best was 8.
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Old 12-19-2012, 08:10 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he'll get in, but honestly look at his 2006 season

Rush:
346 Attempts, 1528 Yards, 13 TD
Receiving:
90 Receptions, 806 Yards, 3 TD

Great, great season for any player.... Too bad he only had one like this, if he had two or three like this within a five year span; he probably would make it. That 13 TD in 2006 is quite an anomaly with S-Jax, his next best was 8.
I think Steven Jackson is closer than many think. I was reading an article in the St Louis Post Dispatch that stated Jackson was one of the top players of all-time in average yards from scrimmage. Not sure the exact ranking, but he was ahead of notables such as OJ Simpson and Tony Dorsett and not far behind Emmitt Smith.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:14 PM    (permalink
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No. And these threads are very annoying. If you have to ask if somebody is a Hall of Famer, then the answer is no.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:32 PM    (permalink
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No. And these threads are very annoying. If you have to ask if somebody is a Hall of Famer, then the answer is no.
That doesn't necessarily fly though. There are people within the Hall of Fame that folks believe probably shouldn't be in there. Lynn Swan for instance I've heard in that regard a few times.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:16 AM    (permalink
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That doesn't necessarily fly though. There are people within the Hall of Fame that folks believe probably shouldn't be in there. Lynn Swan for instance I've heard in that regard a few times.
There's a reason why threads like this don't exist for Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. It's because they're first-ballot hall of famers.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:18 AM    (permalink
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There's a reason why threads like this don't exist for Tom Brady and Peyton Manning. It's because they're first-ballot hall of famers.
But not every player in the Hall of Fame has made it in on their first try.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:10 PM    (permalink
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Love me some Jackson, I went on a rampage when he hell down to the Cowboys in the draft and we traded out of the first round in favor of Julius Jones

Workhorse back that really was the entire St.Louis offense after Faulk left but zero rings and probably end up at around 12,000 when it is all said and done. He simply doesn't have enough pad in his pocket or tread on the tire to get the nod imo.

other guys who are in the same boat that haven't been mentioned Stephen Davis, Priest Holmes, and Ricky Williams.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Only difference with Priest Holmes and Ricky Williams, is that those guys had years where they were easily the best RBs in football.
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Old 12-20-2012, 03:54 PM    (permalink
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I might be one of the only people who believe that Priest Holmes was vastly overrated.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:17 PM    (permalink
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I might be one of the only people who believe that Priest Holmes was vastly overrated.
I remember he had great vision, and cut-back ability. And Willie Roaf, Brian Waters + other great o-lineman
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Old 12-28-2012, 01:41 PM    (permalink
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Wish SJax will go somewhere like Green Bay. Take less money to win the last years why he's in the NFL.
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Old 12-29-2012, 12:04 AM    (permalink
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Steven Jackson has hinted he may retire at the end of the season.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...-nfl-at-age-29

"If I have to write my story," Jackson said, "I'd rather go out like Barry Sanders and leaving people to want more than to leave too late.

Added Jackson: "I'll allow myself that time to sit back and reflect and think about things I've accomplished in my career and what I've done this season. And think about how much longer I want to play this game, as well. There's going to be a small window of opportunity, and I want to make sure I take full advantage of it."
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:38 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by stlouisfan37 View Post
As a Rams fan and a Jackson fan, I would have to say no. He has a lot of yards, not enough touchdowns, and, quite frankly, just didn't take over very many games. The great ones take the game into their own hands. I remember a lot of games where Riggins, Emmitt, Payton, Dickerson...would just say "Today is my day" and destroy a defense that was designed to stop them and only them. I have never felt like Jackson was that guy, other than the occasional game here or there.

Now, if he were to play 4 or 5 more years and put together 13,000/80 along with 500 receptions, the argument carries a lot more weight, especially if it included some meaningful postseason games.
As a Rams fan you know how bad some of those teams he played on were. That's why Sanders is the best RB ever for me. He did it on bad teams with no FB for 85% of the time.
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Old 12-29-2012, 02:45 AM    (permalink
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I might be one of the only people who believe that Priest Holmes was vastly overrated.
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I remember he had great vision, and cut-back ability. And Willie Roaf, Brian Waters + other great o-lineman
Not unlike Shaun Alexander with the Seahawks. Good running backs running behind fantastic offensive lines. Both Priest Holmes and Shaun Alexander had linemen in front of them who are/will be talked about in HOF conversations, if not actually inducted.
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Old 12-29-2012, 03:00 AM    (permalink
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Holmes was a backup in Baltimore for 3 of his 4 seasons with the Ravens. His numbers just exploded in Kansas City for 3 years running behind Roaf, Shields and Waters. Larry Johnson also had a few monster seasons in the same situation until fading away quite suddenly.

Shaun Alexander can thank Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson for his huge numbers, records and MVP. Talk about right place at the right time. They were good players but no doubt about it their numbers were inflated and made to look much better than they actually were behind a great line.
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