MVP as we head out of November

[njx9]

Originally Posted by yo123

A month ago I picked Manning to win it, but at this point it's not close. Who is the best team he's beaten this year? Baltimore? Cincinatti? They had 3 chances to beat an elite team this year and lost all three, and it took late comebacks to make the scores look respectable.

look, i have no problem with peyton not winning it (or not even getting a vote), but this is silly. they lost three early games to good teams, and they *did* make comebacks. it wasn't about making them 'look respectable'. they nearly came back to beat three very, very good teams after early turnovers created a hole that ended up being too deep to dig out of.

if we want to play that game, who's the best team peterson beat? houston, with his 86 yards/3.4 ypc and 0 tds? san francisco in an identically average performance? green bay is the only good team the vikings beat when he had a good day. it's a bad argument and it's beneath anyone who's been involved in this thread.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Two issues...

1) DUDE sat out 18 months, his 3 losses were in the first five weeks of the season and was still learning the players and system as well as getting back into football shape. Since then he has been on fire and has won 11 straight.. A month ago you picked manning, but yet you are still trying to talk about his three losses? he had those a month ago...

2) Best season for a HB is debatable... he didnt break the rushing record and didnt come close to the total yardage mark, or Touchdown mark... THE ONLY thing that is mindblowing about his season is he was coming off an ACL and was able to do what he did.

But other HB's have had success after an ACL, NO OTHER QB has come back from loosing all feeling and nerve damage in his throwing arm... Manning coming back from his injury was far more impressive than a HB coming back from an ACL

Their comebacks are irrelevant, and in no way affected their value this year. Save that argument for CBPOY.

And if you're honestly going to try to argue that the only thing mindblowing about AD's season is that he came back from an injury I'm not even going to argue with you, because you are clearly deluded beyond repair.

[yo123]

Originally Posted by njx9

look, i have no problem with peyton not winning it (or not even getting a vote), but this is silly. they lost three early games to good teams, and they *did* make comebacks. it wasn't about making them 'look respectable'. they nearly came back to beat three very, very good teams after early turnovers created a hole that ended up being too deep to dig out of.

if we want to play that game, who's the best team peterson beat? houston, with his 86 yards/3.4 ypc and 0 tds? san francisco in an identically average performance? green bay is the only good team the vikings beat when he had a good day. it's a bad argument and it's beneath anyone who's been involved in this thread.

Mostly fair points. I just can't give Peyton credit for ALMOST coming back to win those games when a big reason that they were down in the first place was his mediocre to poor play.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by MaxV

Coming back from injury is hardly THE ONLY thing mind-blowing about 2,000 yard rushing season.

Sure I might have down played 2000 yards.. but he stated it was the best season EVER.. he didnt break any records but somehow that makes it the best season...

[yo123]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Sure I might have down played 2000 yards.. but he stated it was the best season EVER.. he didnt break any records but somehow that makes it the best season...

So having 30 carries less than Dickerson and 9 less yards makes it a worse season? Dickerson had 14 fumbles that year too, it really isn't even close.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by yo123

Mostly fair points. I just can't give Peyton credit for ALMOST coming back to win those games when a big reason that they were down in the first place was his mediocre to poor play.

for how dominate Peterson's last month was.. go look at his start to this season... below average, 2 TD's in the first 6 weeks and only cracked 100 yards 1 time.... Dont try and manipulate Manning's ONLY three loses but fail to recognize Peterson didnt start off very well either....

[MaxV]

As I've said, I'm rooting for Peyton, and I still wouldn't be surprised if it is him, but it should be Peterson.

Broncos might have still won that division with Tebow. It was THAT awful.

Vikings finish below Lions with an average starting back.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by yo123

So having 30 carries less than Dickerson and 9 less yards makes it a worse season? Dickerson had 14 fumbles that year too, it really isn't even close.

9 yards shy of the Dickerson's Rushing yards record
195 yards shy of Chris Johnson's Total yardage record
16 Touchdowns shy of Ladainian Tomlinson's Touchdown record
.4 yard Shy of Jamaal Charles' Single season carry average record
870 yards shy of Marshall Faulk's Single season receiving yards record


Please show me what Peterson did to say he had the best year when he wasnt record setting ......

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by MaxV

As I've said, I'm rooting for Peyton, and I still wouldn't be surprised if it is him, but it should be Peterson.

Broncos might have still won that division with Tebow. It was THAT awful.

Vikings finish below Lions with an average starting back.

The same Tebow that couldnt play over mark sanchez this year? that is pure speculation..

What we do know is Manning took the broncos to the #1 Record in the NFL and #1 seed in the AFC

[gpngc]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

9 yards shy of the Dickerson's Rushing yards record
195 yards shy of Chris Johnson's Total yardage record
16 Touchdowns shy of Ladainian Tomlinson's Touchdown record
.4 yard Shy of Jamaal Charles' Single season carry average record
870 yards shy of Marshall Faulk's Single season receiving yards record


Please show me what Peterson did to say he had the best year when he wasnt record setting ......

In today's super QB-driven league, he carried his below average QB to the playoffs. With help from the defense at times, Rudolph, Harvin for half the year, yes, but it was mostly him. He made a huge positive impact for the defense, keeping them fresh and off the field/changing field position. He made Ponder look tolerable at times and allowed for MANY, MANY short TD passes because the whole D looked at him in the red zone.

And he played his best down the stretch when the team made its run to the postseason.

Valuable.

[The Alex]

J.J. Watt. As far as I'm concerned, he had the best season of any defensive lineman since we began tracking sacks. I don't care if he's not a quarterback.

[Denver Bronco56]

So he carried his team to the playoffs.... Okay but again that doesnt automatically just give him the recognition of best season ever... because it was not in any fashion..

Usually a RECORD breaking season is considered the best... he did nothing of the sorts when it comes to breaking records

[Denver Bronco56]

I might be the only one but having a Dominate running back now, when defenses are geared towards running nickle and dime looks more frequently due to the spread offenses.. I think it would be easier for a HB to ball.

If the LB's are lighter and more DBs are on the field, Safties are no longer like Atwater or Lott, they are more so CB's playing saftey it seems like a good Running game would have the advantage.

[gpngc]

He had one of the best seasons for a running back ever. But no, he fell 9 yards short of one record and didn't break any others, again, as basically a one-man team (the record-breakers usually had a good supporting cast).

I don't know why you think he has to break a statistical record to qualify his season as one of the best ever. Especially considering he was 2 carries away from breaking a record - like that would magically change your argument and THEN you'd be for AD.

And for the record, I have no problem with Manning winning it and think he deserves all the credit in the world. But he finishes third for me in the voting behind Peterson and Glenn Cofee.

[cmarq83]

This was nowhere near Manning's 2nd best season ever. Get that out of your head right now.

[Denver Bronco56]

I dont disagree i with the statement ONE OF THE BEST ever, but there is a difference between saying that and HE HAD THE BEST SEASON EVER.

[prock]

Originally Posted by 49ers1984

They did make the playoffs but barely. In voters eyes any year where a player breaks a record it makes them a lot more valuable in their eyes.

So being a wild card means you can't go on in the playoffs? And ten yards doesn't make him more or less valuable.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

This was nowhere near Manning's 2nd best season ever. Get that out of your head right now.

Stat. / 2012 Career rank. / 2012 #/best # yr
Yards. / 2. / 4659. / 4700 (2010)
Completions. / 2. / 400 / 450 (2010)
Attempts. / 3. 583 / 679 (2010)
Comp %. / 2. / 68.6 / 68.8 (2008)
Yards/pass. / 3. / 7.99 / 9.17 (2004)
TD. / 2. / 37 / 49. (2004)
Int. / 2 / 11 / 10 ( 03, 04, 05)
Wins. / 2 ( 13 wins 3x). / 13 / 14 ( 05, 09)
SB. / ?? / ? / 2006



the best year team wise with the colts was 2004 with 6,475 yards of offense

This year with the Broncos was 6,366 yards... for 2nd best in his Career

[cmarq83]

Originally Posted by Denver Bronco56

Stat. / 2012 Career rank. / 2012 #/best # yr
Yards. / 2. / 4659. / 4700 (2010)
Completions. / 2. / 400 / 450 (2010)
Attempts. / 3. 583 / 679 (2010)
Comp %. / 2. / 68.6 / 68.8 (2008)
Yards/pass. / 3. / 7.99 / 9.17 (2004)
TD. / 2. / 37 / 49. (2004)
Int. / 2 / 11 / 10 ( 03, 04, 05)
Qbr. / 1 (0nly goes back to 08). / 84.1
Wins. / 2 ( 13 wins 3x). / 13 / 14 ( 05, 09)
SB. / ?? / ? / 2006


THE ONLY STAT THAT ISNT #2 is attempts...

the best year team wise with the colts was 2004 with 6,475 yards of offense

This year with the Broncos was 6,366 yards... for 2nd best in his Career

Except clearly from watching him the product on the field wasn't as good. He struggled through multiple games, and missed a good amount of throws over the course of the season. He's been much sharper in previous years stats be damned.

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by prock

So being a wild card means you can't go on in the playoffs? And ten yards doesn't make him more or less valuable.

There is a difference in squeaking in just making the cut, and having the best record in your own division or conference

and Being the record holder or not is a big difference.. no one is going to chase Adrian peterson's record next year.. it will still be Dickerson's

No one is trying to break Manning's 49 td mark, they are gunning for Brady's

2nd place is not nearly as good as being 1st

[Denver Bronco56]

Originally Posted by cmarq83

Except clearly from watching him the product on the field wasn't as good. He struggled through multiple games, and missed a good amount of throws over the course of the season. He's been much sharper in previous years stats be damned.

and that is expected from coming back from the type of injury he had, but he got stronger and more crisp as the season went on and that is clearly evident when you look at the season as a whole and realize that he took the terrible broncos passing offense of 2011 and it became the 2nd best in his career both yards and point wise, along with QB rating

[prock]

AD ran for over 1000 yards after contact. Vikes had the toughest last four games of anyone in the league and Adrian put the team on his back to win out and make the playoffs. Yeah he didn't run for 200 yards a game but if you are gonna say Manning played out of his mind every game you're on crack. I am baffled that anyone who watched football this season can say AD wasn't MVP.

[Denver Bronco56]

the logic and history just are not on his side.

Manning had a career year even by his standards, while PLAYING FOR THE BEST TEAM..

Calvin Johnson had an equally impressive individual season in my opinion but its not just about the stats... its about the end product, and since football is a team sport the MVP usually goes to the best player on the best team or near the top.

[prock]

Not just about the stats as rant about Peytons stats. Good one.

[gpngc]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/...91/glen-coffee

83 carries, 226 yards, a 2.7 ypc, a long of 17 and 8 (8!) first downs.

Oh and not to mention...

... a TD.