End Season Mock pt II *Bowls* 3 Rounds

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Thecollegedropout

I don't rule out NYJ taking a QB in another round or if they can land Mike Vick(Which I'd hate but the Jets would like).

I mean honestly if McElroy shows anything....why take a QB with like a 2nd/3rd round grade in Bray when you have McElroy who may offer the same? I don't even think McElroy(Or Bray) can be full time starters but I'd rather have McElroy as that QB propsect than Bray if it means Bray costs us a 1st round pick.

Rex Ryan's job is on the line...I doubt he and Mr T.(If brought back) are going to have their jobs rely on a fresh rookie....especially one who isn't even a standout of his draft class.

Bray has more arm talent then anyone coming out outside of Glennon. Imo, it's the immaturity question that lowers his stock, that's about it. He's a great fit for Ryan and NYC. He's got that, I don't give a #$$$ attitude. About the only thing that will save Rex's job is a new blue chip franchise QB. It's early but start getting comfortable with him in these colors...

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

I think Geno is going to really respond to good coaching and a sound system. Smith's got everything from a skill set perspective and the intangibles you're looking for. And Gailey's a good coach. If he ends up on a team like the Raiders or Jets, then I'd worry about him.

Smiths physical skill set is very good, I am having a hard time getting past the second half of the season when the schedule got respectable somewhat in terms of the defenses they played. i was on the anti-Geno fence before, now am just on the fence, the second half of his season left something to be desired for me. I do like your "respond to good coaching and a sound system" theory, makes sense. I think I will use that in the future as my own ;)

I've watched them against Rutgers, Pitt and UConn and I thought I saw mostly a pure zone read. And I'm seeeing more Brian Hoyer in Nassib then anything else, I must say. Actually, he reminds me a little of a bigger Fitzpatrick, but I think that would be giving him too much praise because Fitz is a solid to marginal starter and I don't even see that with Nassib-at least at the start of a pro career. I hate watching the zone read so maby I'm being critical but his arm looks anything but NFL caliber. I feel like it's in that Brady Quinn territory.

I respectfully disagree with most of this in terms of Nassib. Do you mean zone read as in the offensive system? What I saw was New Orleans offense, multiple formations, pro-style passing system. I saw no zone read, so I went into "read up" on mode, and the first thing I read was far and away them most telling
(http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootba...rback_12.html), which reinforces what I saw. Doug Marrone was the NO offensive coordinator before going to SU. They installed the offense two weeks before the opener, and asked Nassib to learn it on "the fly", and from what I have seen, he has gotten better every week. I see no Hoyer in Nassib, although I do see alot of the Fitzpatrick gunsliger/hard nosed style. As for his arm, I think its as strong, if not the strongest in this class. He had about 5 drops a game, which I attributed to his quick release and the ball getting on the receivers so quickly that they could not handle it. He makes his decisions and gets the ball out in a hurry, I see a rifle for an arm, and no Brady Quinn arm strength at all. IMO you are dead wrong on Nassib. He's run a pro style offense all season that he is just learning, improved as the season has progresed and has a quick, compact delivery. Some food for thought I hope at the least.

Yea, I'm not high at all on Montgomery but was afraid to drop him too far. But at the same time I'm not overly high on Greene. If Art Brown tests well he'll rise, same with Jackson. A sleeper I like a lot is DeAundre Brown of Tulsa. I don't expect he'll be a high pick but he'll end up a steal in the mid rounds.

I dont blame you at all for your feeling on Montgomery, I have actually seeing him going up on several sites, and dont get it. I have in the first right now on necessity and need, even though I am getting closer to 3rd round value wise. I like Greene the more I see of him myself, but have not gotten in depth at all with the LB's yet. I agree with you on Brown, although I am having a hard time so far judging his actual size, I see some Derrick Brooks to his game, and see him potentially as a big riser myself, I love Jackson and expect him to rise as well.

Escobar is pretty talented though. He blocks but has impressive athletic ability for that size-reminds of Witten. If he declares, it's not going to surprise me if he gets moved up to high 2nd round. It's just not the greatest draft for LBs in general outside of Te'o. A move up for him by the Bills works. Guess it depends on how they'll evaluate the QBs. Manuel/ Thomas, even Dysert would make a nice project for Gailey, if he can afford to wait for them to develop.

Ill look more into Escobar, he sounds intriguing. I agree with your position on LB's in general, although I do think there are some nice 2nd round prospects, but after that I think it gets slim. Right now, it looks like they wound trade up for a LB in the first, but a QB seems with in the realm reality. At this point, IMO if Gailey stays then he needs an impact guy, time is not on his side.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Poz51

I respectfully disagree with most of this in terms of Nassib. Do you mean zone read as in the offensive system? What I saw was New Orleans offense, multiple formations, pro-style passing system. I saw no zone read, so I went into "read up" on mode, and the first thing I read was far and away them most telling
(http://www.syracuse.com/orangefootba...rback_12.html), which reinforces what I saw. Doug Marrone was the NO offensive coordinator before going to SU. They installed the offense two weeks before the opener, and asked Nassib to learn it on "the fly", and from what I have seen, he has gotten better every week. I see no Hoyer in Nassib, although I do see alot of the Fitzpatrick gunsliger/hard nosed style. As for his arm, I think its as strong, if not the strongest in this class. He had about 5 drops a game, which I attributed to his quick release and the ball getting on the receivers so quickly that they could not handle it. He makes his decisions and gets the ball out in a hurry, I see a rifle for an arm, and no Brady Quinn arm strength at all. IMO you are dead wrong on Nassib. He's run a pro style offense all season that he is just learning, improved as the season has progresed and has a quick, compact delivery. Some food for thought I hope at the least.

Thanks for setting me straight poz. I watched strictly passing cut ups of Rutgers, Mizzou, USC, and Louisville and got a much clearer read on him. Much better then grueling through full games. They only sprinkle in the zone read. If I'm not already disqualified to have a take on him I can't help but see Andy Dalton now. Difference being Nassib has a year more of experience in the pro style coming into the league. I can see why you rate him up there, especially since there's hardly any difference between him and a top 15 pick like Christian Ponder. But on arm strength... Brady Quinn territory was selling him short but I still can't say I see a rifle. The issue is, like Ponder, he strikes me as that guy you're always looking to upgrade from. Even with Dalton's success, he gets a lot of that. It's the big armed, mobile types that are blowing up right now. And Nassib's not quite as athletic as even Ponder or Dalton. But I can see where your coming from-especially after watching him vs Mizzou. I'm going to move him way up the board now.

[vidae]

Great KC draft, but I'd still rather have almost any other WR than Cobi. I like Cobi, but not as a high second round pick.

The other rounds are pretty perfect hits on our needs.

[jsagan77]

I like the skins draft but will Mathieu drop further?

[Robcards]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

I like the skins draft but will Mathieu drop further?

I'd be shocked if Mathieu is taken before day 3, corners have to cover in the NFL, it's hard to justify taking a special teamer/return man/possible dimeback before then without even considering his character issues.

[Taber21]

What exactly is Minnesota getting back in that trade? Also,OLB is really not a need unless they decided to move Henderson or Greenway, or one of them left.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Taber21

What exactly is Minnesota getting back in that trade? Also,OLB is really not a need unless they decided to move Henderson or Greenway, or one of them left.

At least a 14' 2nd round pick. Henderson's up for FA. Do you think he'll be given a long term contract?

[gouldo]

Miami's draft.....

Eifert...outside of a fast WR, this is the biggest need on offence. He is the best available, and a number of teams will need a TE who will pick below us, so i can see someone trading up. If he is as good as Graham as predicted, then 100% on with this pick.

2nd rounders would/should be if the draft falls this way, Sam Montgomery the DE and WR Stedman Bailey.

In the 3rd would be Baccari Rambo. that would be a hell of a draft for Miami

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by gouldo

Miami's draft.....

Eifert...outside of a fast WR, this is the biggest need on offence. He is the best available, and a number of teams will need a TE who will pick below us, so i can see someone trading up. If he is as good as Graham as predicted, then 100% on with this pick.

2nd rounders would/should be if the draft falls this way, Sam Montgomery the DE and WR Stedman Bailey.

In the 3rd would be Baccari Rambo. that would be a hell of a draft for Miami

I do really like Bailey and think he should go higher but I don't think he's really an outside "fast WR." His game is more like Bess'. I'm surprised you want a DE? Or maby you just like Montgomery. I think Wake, Odrick & Vernon is a pretty solid group and RT looks like a giant hole.

[DiG]

I'm not crazy about Jefferson at this point but the position is obvious...I'm ok with rolling the dice on Badger in the third if coaches felt good about it. Although it seems unlikely given this staff that they'd make that move to be honest.

[CJSchneider]

OK, I have no problem with NO dropping 9 spots in the first round and still being able to draft Richardson, but what do you have us getting in return? It would at least yield us Indy's 3rd round pick.

[GatorsBullsFan]

Horrible Draft for the Jags Werner isn't a top 5 guy to me

[eliasrapp98]

Besides Joeckel I love it for Philly. I'd take Geno at #4.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by CJSchneider

OK, I have no problem with NO dropping 9 spots in the first round and still being able to draft Richardson, but what do you have us getting in return? It would at least yield us Indy's 3rd round pick.

Cancelled that last update but I still have them trading down, now with Chicago for a 4th and a 14' 3rd rounder. :banana?

[SickwithIt1010]

I dont mind that at all my man. Good work

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Thanks for setting me straight poz. I watched strictly passing cut ups of Rutgers, Mizzou, USC, and Louisville and got a much clearer read on him. Much better then grueling through full games. They only sprinkle in the zone read. If I'm not already disqualified to have a take on him I can't help but see Andy Dalton now. Difference being Nassib has a year more of experience in the pro style coming into the league. I can see why you rate him up there, especially since there's hardly any difference between him and a top 15 pick like Christian Ponder. But on arm strength... Brady Quinn territory was selling him short but I still can't say I see a rifle. The issue is, like Ponder, he strikes me as that guy you're always looking to upgrade from. Even with Dalton's success, he gets a lot of that. It's the big armed, mobile types that are blowing up right now. And Nassib's not quite as athletic as even Ponder or Dalton. But I can see where your coming from-especially after watching him vs Mizzou. I'm going to move him way up the board now.

Im starting to only watch clips lately as I dont have time for entire games anymore myself. The clips of the Mizzu and USC games were very telling for me on my 2nd take. I watched some of them again myself, and you are right, they sprinkle in some zone read looks in thier running game (I could see why you would say that for sure), but I dont recall seeing Nassib run... I thought I saw something similar to it with Luck now in Indy, I am not sure on this, but does it seem almost like a fake? I noticed that in the bowl game, Nassib looks like he could run with it, and it looks like ZR, but he does not run... Hmm... I will have to look back and see if he runs.
As for getting you straight... Just wanted you to take another look, I have heard some interesting opinions on Nassib, most close minded, but I do appreciate your willingness to look again, and be open minded. Which is why I enjoy talking to you. I would not say disqualified. I see some Dalton in his descision making for sure, once he knows where he is going with it, the ball is gone, and I think he is very similar intelligence wise. Arm strength is a difference I can agree to disagree on, but will maintain my stance that it is as strong as anyone in the class. Im not saying he's John Elway, but when he cranks it up, he's in the ball park. I would agree that he is not as athletic as Ponder, personally I would put him above Dalton, but what I see is a guy who moves around in and around the pocket itself very well. I really like his awareness, he is not a statue back there like Glennon, now he's not Cam Newton running for 1sts either. He is however, very fluid and natural in his movement, he keeps his head up, and seems to have very good peripheral vision, and throws well on the move, and when given time will set his feet and deliver the ball.
I think he has the most development potential of any of the QB's in this class, and that he is strong armed and mobile enough to fit in the league. He was under pressure the entire year, particularly in his face, and off the right side, and handled it very well. He has some mechanical issues with touch passes, and still needs to develop in several categories, but his progression from year to year, and within the course of this season, that I think it continues as he focuses on football alone. I will be very interested to watch him and the opinions of him change as the pre-draft processes go on.

[CJSchneider]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Cancelled that last update but I still have them tn we had better make that 4th rounrading down, now with Chicago for a 4th and a 14' 3rd rounder. :banana?

Then we had better make that 4th rounder a DE.

[OSUGiants17]

Banks, Greene, Carradine would be a much better Giants draft there. Better value and need

[HEISMANHERSCHEL]

except for dallas taking a rb in the third, I think it is solid for dallas and houston.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Poz51

Im starting to only watch clips lately as I dont have time for entire games anymore myself. The clips of the Mizzu and USC games were very telling for me on my 2nd take. I watched some of them again myself, and you are right, they sprinkle in some zone read looks in thier running game (I could see why you would say that for sure), but I dont recall seeing Nassib run... I thought I saw something similar to it with Luck now in Indy, I am not sure on this, but does it seem almost like a fake? I noticed that in the bowl game, Nassib looks like he could run with it, and it looks like ZR, but he does not run... Hmm... I will have to look back and see if he runs.
As for getting you straight... Just wanted you to take another look, I have heard some interesting opinions on Nassib, most close minded, but I do appreciate your willingness to look again, and be open minded. Which is why I enjoy talking to you. I would not say disqualified. I see some Dalton in his descision making for sure, once he knows where he is going with it, the ball is gone, and I think he is very similar intelligence wise. Arm strength is a difference I can agree to disagree on, but will maintain my stance that it is as strong as anyone in the class. Im not saying he's John Elway, but when he cranks it up, he's in the ball park. I would agree that he is not as athletic as Ponder, personally I would put him above Dalton, but what I see is a guy who moves around in and around the pocket itself very well. I really like his awareness, he is not a statue back there like Glennon, now he's not Cam Newton running for 1sts either. He is however, very fluid and natural in his movement, he keeps his head up, and seems to have very good peripheral vision, and throws well on the move, and when given time will set his feet and deliver the ball.
I think he has the most development potential of any of the QB's in this class, and that he is strong armed and mobile enough to fit in the league. He was under pressure the entire year, particularly in his face, and off the right side, and handled it very well. He has some mechanical issues with touch passes, and still needs to develop in several categories, but his progression from year to year, and within the course of this season, that I think it continues as he focuses on football alone. I will be very interested to watch him and the opinions of him change as the pre-draft processes go on.

Admit it Poz, you work in the Bills FO. No matter how they try to redirect, Nassib now has got to be the target.

[Poz51]

Originally Posted by Brown Leader

Admit it Poz, you work in the Bills FO. No matter how they try to redirect, Nassib now has got to be the target.

LOL, you can call me Mr. Whaley if you woulde like.... I wish I got paid to this.
It certainly makes sense, especially along the Tannehill/Sherman combo hire/pick last year lines. I also am starting to think that if Locker and Ponder (guys with 2nd round type grades) can go in the 8-12 range, I see no reason why several of the guys from this class such as Wilson, Smith, Nassib, Barkley and even Glennon cant IMO. Although I do think QB needy teams are better off taking value in the first and then trading up back into the first...

[Iamcanadian]

Wilson isn't currently ranked in the top 25 never mind #1 overall. Reid just said, he doesn't think there is a top 5 QB in this draft and he won't reach for one just to draft a QB, he take his chances at QB in FA or draft one in round 2, a clear indication that QB's are currently way down most team's draft boards.

[Brown Leader]

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

Wilson isn't currently ranked in the top 25 never mind #1 overall. Reid just said, he doesn't think there is a top 5 QB in this draft and he won't reach for one just to draft a QB, he take his chances at QB in FA or draft one in round 2, a clear indication that QB's are currently way down most team's draft boards.

"The most important thing is that it's the right pick," Reid said on Pro Football Talk Live. "You can't get caught up in saying you have to have a quarterback. You do that, and it's not the right guy, that's a problem. That's a real problem. That sets you back. Whoever you take at that spot, it better be the right guy. It doesn't matter the position."

Tyler Wilson is the right guy.

[Rosebud]

I don't think Warford lasts that long, but if he does seeing the giants pass on him in the third would be a real kick in the balls.