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Old 01-06-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Default Top 32 QB Rankings

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53984

From my previous post earlier in the year, this is how I state it now:

THE ELITE:

1. Aaron Rodgers GB
2. Tom Brady NE
3. Peyton Manning DEN

Quote:
These 3 are consistently, hands down the top QBs in the NFL. Manning is probably the best of the 3, but his age right now, he;s still up there with Brady and Rodgers. I just think Rodgers is number 1 and in the prime of his career.

4. Drew Brees NO
5. Ben Roethlisbuerger PIT
6. Eli Manning NYG
7. Matt Ryan ATL
8. Phillip Rivers SD

Quote:
Matt Ryan took that next step to get into the top 7 QBs. He's an elite QB and joins the rest who were already slated here. I'm keeping Philip Rivers in this catergory because of his body of work. Not his fault for poor personnell Decisions and horrible coaching. I'm giving him another year.
2nd Tier QBs:
9. Joe Flacco BAL
10. Tony Romo DAL
11. Jay Cutler CHI
12. Matt Schaub HOU
13. Matt Stafford DET

Quote:
Cutler and Stafford, in my opinion, have the most potential to break into the Elite Category. Flacco seems like he's remained as a solid QB that can win you ball games with everything around him. Romo and Schaub are what they are.
Up and Comers:
14. Andrew Luck IND
15. Robert Griffin III WAS
16. Colin Kaepernick SF
17. Russell Wilson SEA
18. Andy Dalton CIN
19. Cam Newton CAR

Quote:
These 4 of these guys are 1st year starters and all of these guys have the potential to become top signal callers in the NFL.
Jeckyl and Hyde: QBs with great upside but are inconsistent
20. Josh Freeman TB
21. Sam Bradford STL
22. Jake Locker TEN
23. Kevin Kolb ARZ

Quote:
Freeman probably has the most potential of all these QBs. Bradford has improved, but for a number 1 pick, need to see more consistency. Same with Locker. Kolb was 4-0 before going down.
The Unknowns:
24. Ryan Tannehill MIA
25. Christian Ponder MIN
26. Nick Foles PHI
27. Brandon Weeden CLE


Quote:
These guys, especially Tannehill, I've come away impressed, but need to see more out of next year to determine where to move them up or down. Tannehill was very good, but I can't put him up in the top 20 over more proven guys than him. He's got potential though.
Replaceables: Guys who should not be starting:

28. Mark Sanchez NYJ
29. Carson Palmer OAK
30. Ryan Fitzpatrick BUF
31. blaine Gabbert/Chad Henne experiment in Jacksonville.
32. Matt Cassell/Brady Quinn KC
Quote:
These guys pretty much have seen enough to show they're not starter material. Don't see the potential nor flashes.

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Old 01-06-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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How can "The Elite" be the second group? Elite means the best of the best. Clearly those guys are not elite.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
nobodyinparticular
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Switch Kevin Kolb and Carson Palmer. - Kevin Kolb wasn't even good enough to start over Ryan Lindley or John Skelton. That's bad. Palmer tries too hard sometimes, but he is far better than anyone in the unknowns or the Jeckyl and Hydes. It's clear you have no grasp on Carson Palmer's ability.

Move Cam Newton down a tier. Newton is a media darling, but he's way too inconsistent to be in the same category as the rookies of this season. He is on the level of Freeman and Bradford. He makes too many mistakes, absolutely overthrows his receivers way too much and can be held in check for large parts of a season.

Move Rivers down at least 1 category, if not 2 or 3. Rivers has now done this for 2 consecutive seasons now. He still has an all time great TE, Smith went out and got him Robert Meacham and Eddie Royal and he still makes bad play after bad play. He is at least on the Cutler/Romo level of boneheaded mistakes. In ESPN's QBR, Rivers is actually 31st in the league, between Blaine Gabbert and Matt Cassel. It's time to adjust the viewpoint on Rivers.

I would probably put Locker below Tannehill too. Locker is way too consistently bad to be in the same category as Bradford. He had more INTs than TDs. He has a hard time hitting receivers and a difficult time reading defenses. At best he's an unknown with only 380 career passing attempts.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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We can never have enough threads talking about QBs. This is just off the top of my head.

1. Aaron Rodgers
2. Peyton Manning
3. Tom Brady
4. Eli Manning
5. Ben Roethlisberger
6. Matt Ryan
7. Drew Brees
8. Andrew Luck
9. Robert Griffin
10. Tony Romo
11. Joe Flacco
12. Jay Cutler
13. Matthew Stafford
14. Russell Wilson
15. Matt Schaub
16. Phillip Rivers
17. Cam Newton
18. Collin Kaepernick
19. Andy Dalton
20. Christian Ponder
21. Ryan Tannehill
22. Nick Foles
23. Sam Bradford
24. Jake Locker
25. Kevin Kolb
26. Carson Palmer
27. Josh Freeman
28. Ryan Fitzpatrick
29. Brandon Weeden
30. Mark Sanchez
31.Blaine Gabbert
32. Matt Cassell
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:03 PM    (permalink
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Schaub and Flacco ahead of Luck and RGIII? I'll let BBD handle this one because he'll do it more thoughtfully and eloquently.
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The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:08 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Schaub and Flacco ahead of Luck and RGIII? I'll let BBD handle this one because he'll do it more thoughtfully and eloquently.
I guess you didn't get the memo with my break downs. I for one, think Luck will be better than Flacco. I have them in my own category. Right now, they're elite prospects that can and probably will break into that top 10, but 1 year, in my opinion, isn't enough. Remember that guy, in 2010, Josh Freeman? 25 tds to 6 INTs. yeah, now he's on the hot seat.

One year doesn't do it for me. That's why I have him on the up and coming, that will most likely break into that category with another year experience.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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I'm torn on Phillip Rivers. I think he's a damn good qb, but why has he been so dreadful the past 2 years?

I've watched him play plenty over the last 2 years, and he just doesn't look good. Forget the talent around him, he himself has been largely unimpressive. It's almost like he peaked already and teams figured out his flaws.

So I'm iffy on Rivers. I don't know what to make of him anymore. I think he can be as high as 7 on the list, and as low as 14 or 15. I just don't know what to make of him anymore.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:23 PM    (permalink
bucfan12
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I'm torn on Phillip Rivers. I think he's a damn good qb, but why has he been so dreadful the past 2 years?

I've watched him play plenty over the last 2 years, and he just doesn't look good. Forget the talent around him, he himself has been largely unimpressive. It's almost like he peaked already and teams figured out his flaws.

So I'm iffy on Rivers. I don't know what to make of him anymore. I think he can be as high as 7 on the list, and as low as 14 or 15. I just don't know what to make of him anymore.
I think a lot of it has too do with coaching and personell decision making. Rivers has steadily lost his weapons and AJ Smith did nothing to replace them. They lost Vincent Jackson and they replace him with Eddie Royal???

Offensive Line has been a question mark for a few years now. Failed to rebuild the defense and hung on to Norv Turner two years too long.

I think the overall body of work still makes him an elite QB. I think the overall team around him has not been maintained or improved.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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I think a lot of it has too do with coaching and personell decision making. Rivers has steadily lost his weapons and AJ Smith did nothing to replace them. They lost Vincent Jackson and they replace him with Eddie Royal???

Offensive Line has been a question mark for a few years now. Failed to rebuild the defense and hung on to Norv Turner two years too long.

I think the overall body of work still makes him an elite QB. I think the overall team around him has not been maintained or improved.
You can't say it's coaching or personnel when Rivers makes boneheaded decisions in game. That's on Rivers.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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You can't say it's coaching or personnel when Rivers makes boneheaded decisions in game. That's on Rivers.
Right, but his body of work, something's not right there.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:33 PM    (permalink
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That's the thing though, what exactly is his body of work? 3 4000 yard seasons? Big deal, plenty of quarterbacks have done that.

And mind you, he did it with Jackson, a healthy Gates, Sproles, LDT, Turner etc. His offense was loaded.

Now I get the talent isn't there anymore, but there are some basic plays that he just doesn't make anymore, and it's confusing, bc he made them in the past.

And is it just me or is his arm weaker now? It's really confusing bc I feel like Rivers is better than he's playing obviously, but then part of me thinks maybe he isn't as good as his early success either.

I don't know. I still think he can be a top 10 qb, but it's really confusing. Especially when Turner's offense was built for him to succeed.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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Right, but his body of work, something's not right there.
Body of work is relevant if we are talking about 4 games. Or even 1 full season. But he now has 2 seasons at this level of making the same mistakes over and over again.

We are now talking about his 2 most recent in comparison to 5 seasons.

Keep in mind, Rivers is not a guy who has 8 or 9 seasons at elite level under his belt. I would say he had only 3 seasons in the last 6 that have been elite.

It's time to downgrade Rivers.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:42 PM    (permalink
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Forget weapons. It should be a crime he is playing with that offensive line. His game has considerably changed since that line has played extremely poorly and he's developed some bad habits as a result. If that line gets fixed and he works on some fundamentals he'll be fine.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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Forget weapons. It should be a crime he is playing with that offensive line. His game has considerably changed since that line has played extremely poorly and he's developed some bad habits as a result. If that line gets fixed and he works on some fundamentals he'll be fine.
Plenty of elite QBs have performed behind bad OLs, Peyton with the Colts, Rodgers, Big Ben, Eli and Brady have all done it. And no matter how bad the Chargers OL it's not as bad as the one Cutler's operating behind.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Move Cam Newton down a tier. Newton is a media darling, but he's way too inconsistent to be in the same category as the rookies of this season. He is on the level of Freeman and Bradford. He makes too many mistakes, absolutely overthrows his receivers way too much and can be held in check for large parts of a season.
Not sure I agree here. Cam Newton's skill set is still fantastic, and he is a better QB than Andy Dalton and Colin Kaepernick right now. He does overthrow his receivers a lot, but the man is the entire driver of that offense. He doesn't generate that many turnovers relative to the amount he handles the football. He is also in no way a media darling, in fact he's one of the more picked on players in the league.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:30 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo #1
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Philip Rivers hasn't been a top 10 QB in a while. I would have in somewhere around 13 or 14 right now
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:34 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo #1
In interceptions this year, yes.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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Someone is going to have to explain to me how a guy completing 61% of his passes for over 4,000 yards with 22 TDs and 14 INTs is one of the worst QB's in the game. That looks like a 2nd tier stat line to me.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:13 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by SuperPacker View Post
How can "The Elite" be the second group? Elite means the best of the best. Clearly those guys are not elite.
It goes back to what I've said for a while. Words like "elite" and "great" are used way too loosely.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:03 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Stash View Post
Someone is going to have to explain to me how a guy completing 61% of his passes for over 4,000 yards with 22 TDs and 14 INTs is one of the worst QB's in the game. That looks like a 2nd tier stat line to me.
Both he and Flacco are going to be accused of being crappy, overrated QBs until they get a ring. That's just the way the people on this board are.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:05 PM    (permalink
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don't think Kolb is inconsistent just always hurt
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:28 PM    (permalink
J-Mike88
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
2nd Tier QBs:
9. Joe Flacco BAL
10. Tony Romo DAL

Jeckyl and Hyde: QBs with great upside but are inconsistent
20. Josh Freeman TB
21. Sam Bradford STL
22. Jake Locker TEN
23. Kevin Kolb ARZ
Jeckyl & Hyde are terms that totally fit both Flacco and Romo.
But Romo belongs above Flacco.
But Romo is much better.

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Old 01-06-2013, 08:29 PM    (permalink
Stash
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Both he and Flacco are going to be accused of being crappy, overrated QBs until they get a ring. That's just the way the people on this board are.
Yet Flacco is listed in the 2nd tier while Palmer is in the category with the worst of the worst. Makes perfect sense.
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Old 01-06-2013, 10:00 PM    (permalink
San Diego Chicken
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Originally Posted by Rosebud View Post
Plenty of elite QBs have performed behind bad OLs, Peyton with the Colts, Rodgers, Big Ben, Eli and Brady have all done it. And no matter how bad the Chargers OL it's not as bad as the one Cutler's operating behind.
It's not as bad, it's worse. The left side of the Chargers line is easily the worst in the NFL.
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