Poll: Rookie of the Year (week 16)

[jsagan77]

Luck supporters have a **** load of made up evidence to ever think rg3 should win. RG3 is obviously way worse than Luck no matter how u spin it.

[The Alex]

I should have spent more time arguing with strangers on NFLDC about RGIII and Luck.

[SolidGold]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Luck supporters have a **** load of made up evidence to ever think rg3 should win. RG3 is obviously way worse than Luck no matter how u spin it.

Griffinception

[AntoinCD]

WRs fault of course

[Trogdor]

Man Alfred Morris should of been able to do something there. He's been bailing out RGIII all year but left him out to dry there.

[shylo3716]

The winner of the Skins vs Seahawks game will be ROY

[crossroads]

Originally Posted by shylo3716

The winner of the Skins vs Seahawks game will be ROY

If I'm not mistaken the votes for those awards were all turned in on Monday

[Jvig43]

Originally Posted by Rob S

RG III is incredible and should be ROY. Just give the man his due. **** of, haters.

What exactly does "**** of" mean?

[jsagan77]

Well if u were semi intelligent u'd realize what was going on in his post.

[Jvig43]

If you were semi intelligent you would understand I was being facetious.

[jsagan77]

Ill take my intelligence over urs any day of the week.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Ill take my intelligence over urs any day of the week.

yours.

And RGIII is looking great so far today.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by jsagan77

Ill take my intelligence over urs any day of the week.

Of course you would, because idiots usually make bad decisions.

[Jvig43]

What a stellar display of your intellectual prowess with that retort Jsagan, you really managed to get me with that one.

[Bob Sanders Dreadlock]

RG3 record when he passes 25 or more times 4-5. 1-3 when he has to pass 30+ times.

[J-Mike88]

Shanahan should have pulled RG3 earlier as he was only running slow to the sidelines, never cutting... and he was hopping, limping.

He wasn't planting and throwing like before the injury. He was tough and gutted it out as long as he could, but Shanny should have seen that at 60-70%, he was hurting the team. Cousins would have had a better chance of hanging onto that lead.

Dr James Andrews was right.

Wilson has the composure of a veteral, plus the wheels.... Atlanta better be ready.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I have a feeling when the SKins get the final results from the MRI tonight, RGIII is going to be calling AD to figure out how he rehabbed so quickly.

Robert's knee is jacked up. It buckled inward. Ouch.

[AntoinCD]

My issue with RG3 this year was shown last night and why I worry about him moving forward. When you go through this thread and separate all the stupid insults and crap talking some people have made pretty good points both ways. My point about RG3 is he has the furthest to go as a passer of the rookie QBs. When you limit or take away his ability to run can he deliver?

So I did a little research, and it isn't complete. I have checked through the first 8 weeks of the season for the Redskins productivity on 3rd down. Now I know as a whole the Redskins got better as the season went on so I will finish this later, however here's what I found

The Redskins were 29/103 on 3rd down in the first half of the season. That's 28.16%.

3 of those conversions were because of penalties after the play (personal fouls), which would give the Redskins 26/103 without silly penalties - 25.24%

As a whole that is a very poor number no matter which way you cut it.

Now, when you look at 3rd and long situations, ie - 3rd and 7 and above the numbers get worse obviously. These situations normally arise when the offense can't stay ahead of the down. The Redskins did a terrific job most of they year of staying within 3rd and manageable situations. However when they didn't it wasn't pretty

On 3rd and 7 or longer the Redskins were 8/50 with Griffin throwing for only 3 first downs in the first half of the season in these situations. If QBs can't pick up 1st downs when the defense can show anything on 3rd down then they will struggle in the long term.

To put this into context, in 3rd and long situations the Redskins ran the ball on 13 occasions picking up 3 first downs. So RG3 converted 3 out of 37 attempts at 3rd and long - 8.11%

Why I personally like Andrew Luck over RG3 is because he has shown an ability to make these plays on a regular basis. The Colts can't lean on a stellar running game (admittedly RG3 adds to the Redskins run game) so he will be in these situations more often. In saying that, Luck had 5 1st down conversions of 3rd and 7 or longer in the first half of the Miami game. That is 2 more in one half than RG3 had the first half of the entire season

Week 1

3rd and 5 - pass 5 yards behind line of scrimmage, 11 yards yac - converted
3rd and 13 - pass 4 yards behind line of scrimmage, 7 yards yac - not converted
3rd and 6 - run for 5 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 6 - pass for 27 yards - converted
3rd and 2 - run for no gain (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 4 - run for 2 yards (Royster) - not converted
3rd and 2 - run for 1 yard (Helu) - not converted
3rd and 3 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 5 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 9 - pass for 6 yards - not converted
3rd and 16 - run for 12 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 9 - rush for 2 yards (Morris) - not converted

16.67% - 2/12
3rd and long - 0/3 -

Week 2

3rd and 5 - pass for 12 yards - converted
3rd and 8 - sacked - not converted
3rd and 18 - rush for 10 yards (RG3) - penalty on the play - converted based on penalty
3rd and 3 - incomplete pass - penalty on the play - converted based on penalty
3rd and 7 - pass for 9 yards - converted
3rd and 10 - rush for 15 yards (RG3) - converted
3rd and 11 - pass for 11 yards - not converted
3rd and 1 - pass for 8 yards - converted
3rd and 6 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 9 - pass for 8 yards - not converted
3rd and 12 - pass for 5 yards - not converted
3rd and 20 - pass for 8 yards - not converted
3rd and 8 - pass for 7 yards - not converted

46.15% - 6/13
3rd and long - 3/9 - 1 penalty, 1 pass, 1 rush

Week 3

3rd and 12 - pass for 4 yards - not converted
3rd and 7 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 19 - pass for 14 yards - not converted
3rd and 7 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 10 - rush for 11 yards (RG3) - converted
3rd and 11 - rush for 8 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 5 - pass for 14 yards - converted
3rd and 7 - rush for 9 yards (RG3) - converted
3rd and 18 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 8 - rush for 7 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 6 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 50 - incomplete pass - not converted

25% - 3/12
3rd and long - 1/10 - 1 rush

Week 4

3rd and 8 - passs for 6 yards - not converted
3rd and 5 - rush for 8 yard TD (RG3) - converted
3rd and 11 - pass for 3 yards - not converted
3rd and 12 - pass for 11 yards - not converted
3rd and 11 - rush for 1 yard (Royster) - not converted
3rd and 15 - rush for 8 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 19 - incomplete pass - penalty on play - converted based on penalty
3rd and 19 - pass for -1 yards - not converted
3rd and 9 - pass for 30 yards - converted ****
3rd and 12 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 10 - rush for 9 yards (RG3) - not converted

27.27% - 3/11
3rd and long - 2/10 - 1 pass, 1 penalty

Week 5

3rd and 7 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 7 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 8 - 5 yard pass - not converted
3rd and 4 - rush for -2 yards (Morris) - not converted
3rd and 6 - rush for no gain (Morris) - not converted
3rd and 2 - rush for 1 yard (Morris) - not converted
3rd and 3 - sacked - not converted

0% 0/7
3rd and long - 0/3

Week 6

3rd and 17 - pass for 7 yards - not converted
3rd and 3 - INT - not converted
3rd and 8 - pass for 5 yards - not converted
3rd and 13 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 4 - pass for 5 yards - converted
3rd and 1 - rush for 1 yard TD (Morris) - converted
3rd and 1 - rush for 1 yard (Morris) - converted
3rd and 11 - 15 yard rush (RG3) - converted
3rd and 2 - rush for 4 yards (RG3) - converted
3rd and 11 - rush for 8 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 1 - rush for -3 yards (Morris) - not converted
3rd and 6 - rush for 76 yard TD (RG3) - converted

50% - 6/12
3rd and long - 1/5 - 1 rush

Week 7

3rd and 1 - rush for 2 yards (Morris) - converted
3rd and 3 - pass for 4 yards - converted
3rd and 4 - pass for 13 yards - converted
3rd and 2 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 7 - pass for 26 yard TD - converted *****
3rd and 5 - sacked - not converted
3rd and 7 - pass for 6 yards - not converted
3rd and 2 - pass for 5 yards - converted
3rd and 2 - rush for 14 yards (Robinson) - converted
3rd and 17 - pass for 15 yards - not converted
3rd and 14 - pass for 13 yards - not converted
3rd and 4 - rush for -1 yard - not converted
3rd and 10 - incomplete pass - not converted

46.15% - 6/13
3rd and long - 1/5 - 1 pass

Week 8

3rd and 1 - rush for -3 yards (Morris) - not converted
3rd and 5 - pass for 8 yards - converted
3rd and 4 - pass for 5 yards - converted
3rd and 5 - rush for 3 yards (RG3) - not converted
3rd and 10 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 12 - pass for 2 yards - not converted
3rd and 9 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 3 - rush for 6 yards (Morris) - converted
3rd and 11 - sacked - not converted
3rd and 4 - incomplete pass - not converted
3rd and 17 - incomplete pass - not converted

27.27% - 3/11
3rd and long - 0/5

29/103 - 28.16%

[FUNBUNCHER]

The only disagreement with your analysis I have AntoinCD is I would count how many 3rd and long conversions RG3 has made both running and passing, since his mobility has been built into the Skins gameplan.

His 3rd conversion percentage is low, but in general watching him play I don't know if it's a problem necessarily.

To convert a 3rd and long from the pocket, you need to protect your QB from the pass rush, your WRs have to quickly beat coverage to the sticks and it helps if your QB anticipates the routes coming open before the WR makes his break.

There are things the Redskins Oline does well, but one of them isn't protecting the QB on obvious passing downs from a full on rush. Sometimes the protection is there, sometimes it isn't.

Because of Grif's mobility, just from watching games I think Kyle tells Grif on 3rd downs we actually have 'two' downs to pick up a first. There have been many instances where on 3rd and long Robert throws just short of the sticks, then the SKins either throw short on 4th down to convert, run the ball, or allow Grif to scramble.

Just saying, there are situational factors that partly mitigate the low statistical conversion of 3rd and long.

It's something that needs to be improved. But I don't know if it was something that was a problem for the SKins this season.
The team still averaged 28 ppg this year.

[AntoinCD]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

The only disagreement with your analysis I have AntoinCD is I would count how many 3rd and long conversions RG3 has made both running and passing, since his mobility has been built into the Skins gameplan.

His 3rd conversion percentage is low, but in general watching him play I don't know if it's a problem necessarily.

To convert a 3rd and long from the pocket, you need to protect your QB from the pass rush, your WRs have to quickly beat coverage to the sticks and it helps if your QB anticipates the routes coming open before the WR makes his break.

There are things the Redskins Oline does well, but one of them isn't protecting the QB on obvious passing downs from a full on rush. Sometimes the protection is there, sometimes it isn't.

Because of Grif's mobility, just from watching games I think Kyle tells Grif on 3rd downs we actually have 'two' downs to pick up a first. There have been many instances where on 3rd and long Robert throws just short of the sticks, then the SKins either throw short on 4th down to convert, run the ball, or allow Grif to scramble.

Just saying, there are situational factors that partly mitigate the low statistical conversion of 3rd and long.

It's something that needs to be improved. But I don't know if it was something that was a problem for the SKins this season.
The team still averaged 28 ppg this year.

Oh yeah, definitely. For what he was asked to do this Griff did a really good job. However, as a franchise player RG3 takes a beating. I mean this year he has had a concussion, an LCL sprain and who knows how bad the knee is now. In those times a lot of criticism has come down on Shanahan who stated when RG3 was concussed he was "shaken up" and then put him back in against Baltimore when he wasn't cleared by possibly the best doctor available who was on the sidelines at the time.

My worry with him is, if he seriously hurts himself and loses his mobility can he adapt his game? I have made no bones about it in this thread that he has played really well but that Luck is asked to carry a heavier burden in the Colts' system. For as much as Luck has been beaten behind a terrible offensive line he hasn't taken the type of hits RG3 has and he is a bigger guy able to take bigger hits. RG3 is no good to the Skins if he is concussed, inactive or playing like he was last night.

I think if everyone was honest they would view the rookie of the year like this.

Luck has at times been by far the most impressive rookie but at times has looked like a rookie. He turns it over way too much but his responsibilities far outweigh both RG3 and Wilson.

RG3 has made some terrific plays both passing and rushing and been very efficient. However the offense has training wheels on it which put him in the best place to succeed. I would compare it to the Aldon Smith/Von Miller debate between he and Luck. Smith plays in an ideal situation for him and makes the most of it. Miller is asked to do so much more and still makes it work. He doesn't have the same sack numbers but that is because he isn't put in the position to take advantage of that part of his game all the time.

Wilson is the wildcard in the whole thing. In the first half of the season he was limited due to play calling and looked like a rookie. He struggled a lot of the time. However as the time went by the Seahawks offense opened and he improved and improved.

I think if this were an apples to apples to apples comparison RG3 would win it. He has been the most efficient, won his division and added a terrific element in the run game. However it isn't that simple IMO.

I really don't know which way this will go because each voter will have their own opinion