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Old 01-12-2013, 08:41 AM    (permalink
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I'm gonna be PISSED if the Bucs drafted a QB any higher than 3. I think Freeman has been given a bit of a raw deal by a lot of Bucs fans. I understand that he certainly had a tough skid during that losing streak, but during that 4 game WIN streak everybody loved the kid!

Does he have some accuracy issues? Sure he does, but I don't think it's fair to say he's NEVER been able to locate receivers (Did we forget 2010? 61% completion percentage 25 TDs, 6 picks). As has been mentioned, he's in his first year in a new offense, AGAIN.

This off season isn't the time to get into Free's head with a bunch of BS, it's the off season to again reassure him that he's going UP, the guy had a SOLID year, and he's only going to be better with another year in Sullivan's offense, with that being said, if Sully bolts for a head coaching gig, I would imagine Freeman would struggle greatly (4th OC in 5 years).

There are a lot of QBs who don't show enough enough poise and confidence on occasion, but if you consider Free's career, and especially his pitiful coaching staff for MOST OF HIS CAREER (and while I like Schiano, the jury is obv. still out), I'm not surprised the kid has been inconsistent. What exactly has been consistent AROUND him? Something important for the WHOLE WORLD TO REMEMBER: RGIII, Andrew Luck, and Russel Wilson are NOT the new norm, they're supernovas ...lol this isn't the norm, people complaining about guys like Flacco, Freeman, even Ryan Fitzpatrick and Alex Smith (pre Kap) to a lesser degree need to really ask the question "who can we get that's better?"...this isn't even a good year to be in the market for a QB (free agency OR draft)!!! I think drafting a QB to bring in for "competition" could be disastrous for Freeman's development, get him an upgrade at TE, and let's watch this offense FIRE OFF with their two stud guards back in play. Bad bad bad move to cut bait on Free, .....just my 2 cents.
I'd be pretty pissed also if we took a QB with a 1st or 2nd round pick. We are right on the cusp of making the jump into a contender, we need to fix the defense. If someone drops into the mid rounds and the value is there then fine.
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Old 01-12-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
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I'd be pretty pissed also if we took a QB with a 1st or 2nd round pick. We are right on the cusp of making the jump into a contender, we need to fix the defense. If someone drops into the mid rounds and the value is there then fine.
For freeman to me he just doesn't process the game well. We hear how he constantly lives in the film and weight room trying to improve. Yet you still see a lot of boneheaded errors and decisions. Makes you wonder what the heck does he see when he throws into triple coverage.

Then there's the accuracy. I normally don't see franchise qb of that caliber throw balls at the feet of a wide open wr. Too many balls sail or are under thrown from Freeman between te sticks. It's not good when your offense needs to live by the long ball. That won't cut it. Another thing I notice: still terrible footwork and mechanics. I think I've seen more balls batted at the LOS against freeman than I've seen happen to the 5'11 russel Wilson or drew Brees. Puzzling isn't it?

Then there's the reading defense ad awareness. Consistently stares down his first read and this is 4 years in the league and its still a problem. This makes me wonder if he is reading defenses well and understanding the matchups and what the defenses are in. A lot of this all connects. You see too many times where the announcer will say mike Williams or Dallas Clark wide open on the other side of te field while freeman missed them bc he's locked in on Vincent Jackson double coverage.

As much as his stats indicate in today's nfl 4000 yds isn't a milestone. Majority of the qbs hit that. Freeman has things that won't show up on individual stat sheets. How many 3 and outs has he had? Many buc fans gave him the nickname Captain 3 and out " for a reason. Doesn't make the plays to win big games or hold onto the lead. He's the qb with a lead and needing to sustain a drive will go 3 and out bc he won't complete a pass to move te chains. Bucs offense were at the bottom of the league in 3rd conversion %.

That is why I want Alex smith in Tampa. Does he have Freeman's arm? No. But he's got everything else. Accuracy leadership intangibles poise confidence and ability to keep the defense off the field.

I'd say move on from freeman trade for Alex smith then focus on the defense and adding a TE.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:22 PM    (permalink
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It's not an easy mark to hit 4000, only 11 QBs did and Josh ranked 9th on that list. Tied for 6th in the league in TD passes. His stats are eerily comparable to Eli Manning. He's going to get better with a year under his belt in is system. We just need to fix the Defense imo. Alex Smith does not have a history of being a accurate QB, matter of fact Smiths career percentage is only a few tenths better.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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It's not an easy mark to hit 4000, only 11 QBs did and Josh ranked 9th on that list. Tied for 6th in the league in TD passes. His stats are eerily comparable to Eli Manning. He's going to get better with a year under his belt in is system. We just need to fix the Defense imo. Alex Smith does not have a history of being a accurate QB, matter of fact Smiths career percentage is only a few tenths better.
In all honesty the only thing different we saw from Josh freeman from 2011 to this year is Williams and Jackson made plays and bailed him out many times. Those jump balls that were hitting in that 5 game streak were taken away and that's when you saw the confused josh freeman.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:29 PM    (permalink
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It's not an easy mark to hit 4000, only 11 QBs did and Josh ranked 9th on that list. Tied for 6th in the league in TD passes. His stats are eerily comparable to Eli Manning. He's going to get better with a year under his belt in is system. We just need to fix the Defense imo. Alex Smith does not have a history of being a accurate QB, matter of fact Smiths career percentage is only a few tenths better.
But he also ranked low in completion percentage QBR qb rating wins and 3rd down conversion rating. Say what you want about the defense being terrible but it doesn't help when your qb cannot sustain drives.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:30 PM    (permalink
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Also the Eli manning comparisons need to stop. People look at the career paths and immediately make the comparisons. Both totally different qbs.
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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But he also ranked low in completion percentage QBR qb rating wins and 3rd down conversion rating. Say what you want about the defense being terrible but it doesn't help when your qb cannot sustain drives.
It does not help when the coaching staff plays overly conservative half the season with a tight leash on your QB either. First year in a new system, it will get easier for Free. If you stop bringing up trading for Alex Smith, which is ******** ill stop comparing Freemans stats to Eli's
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Old 01-12-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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It does not help when the coaching staff plays overly conservative half the season with a tight leash on your QB either. First year in a new system, it will get easier for Free. If you stop bringing up trading for Alex Smith, which is ******** ill stop comparing Freemans stats to Eli's
I think I've heard almost every excuse as to why josh freeman doesn't suck. He's Jason Campbell 2.0.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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It is what it is, no one is saying Freeman is Tom Brady. He does get a raw deal though. I've heard a lot of foolish stuff from Buc fans myself, we should sign Vick, trade for Tebow, and now trade for Alex Smith.
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Old 01-12-2013, 01:24 PM    (permalink
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Alex smith may not have a huge arm but he has everything else. Very accurate had proven he can win in the playoffs. Heck if it wasn't for Kyle Williams handing the ball to the giants muffed punts he would have been in the Super Bowl.

I still don't see a valid argument as to why freeman is better than Alex smith ? Other than a big arm. Vick is no way a good qb. Wants his speed and legs declined hes not a pocket drop back qb.

Alex smith would have the tools on offense surrounding him and the best yet: he can sustain drives and keep the defense off the field. Plus we have all the money and a defensive strength draft to improve.
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Old 01-12-2013, 02:09 PM    (permalink
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As an outsider, Freeman may not be the world's greatest QB but one of the best things for a quarterback is to have stability in the type of system he's working in and trying to dismiss the young signal caller after one year under the new regime is a bit extreme. The Buccaneers have plenty of talented assets within their offense and another off-season for them to come together and build help the team far more than having a revolving door at the quarterback position, especially if you're suggesting Alex Smith as the solution (a lateral move at best).

The Bucs' offense was 9th in yards and 13th in scoring during the regular season while the defense was 29th in yards and 23rd in scoring. I think it's evident which side of the ball needs to be addressed and should be receiving the true criticism.
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Old 01-12-2013, 06:39 PM    (permalink
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Wants his speed and legs declined hes not a pocket drop back qb.

.
I can usually overlook your serious in ability to spell and poor grammar (especially with the word "inconsistent/inconsistAnt"), but seriously, "WANTS his speed and legs declined"? C'mon, man! You're better than that, right?

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As an outsider, Freeman may not be the world's greatest QB but one of the best things for a quarterback is to have stability in the type of system he's working in and trying to dismiss the young signal caller after one year under the new regime is a bit extreme. The Buccaneers have plenty of talented assets within their offense and another off-season for them to come together and build help the team far more than having a revolving door at the quarterback position, especially if you're suggesting Alex Smith as the solution (a lateral move at best).

The Bucs' offense was 9th in yards and 13th in scoring during the regular season while the defense was 29th in yards and 23rd in scoring. I think it's evident which side of the ball needs to be addressed and should be receiving the true criticism.
Even though the voice of reason in this case is indeed truly warranted, reasoning with somebody that has no idea of what they're talking about regarding the QB position, is usually fruitless. He loves Aaron Murray... do I need to say more?
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:08 PM    (permalink
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I can usually overlook your serious in ability to spell and poor grammar (especially with the word "inconsistent/inconsistAnt"), but seriously, "WANTS his speed and legs declined"? C'mon, man! You're better than that, right?



Even though the voice of reason in this case is indeed truly warranted, reasoning with somebody that has no idea of what they're talking about regarding the QB position, is usually fruitless. He loves Aaron Murray... do I need to say more?
I said I like Aaron Murray as much as most of the qbs in this draft. Also I for look at statistics as much as everyone else and use that as an argument. Watching the actual games you freeman just doesń have it. You say I have no idea what I'm talking about? If freeman is so good why aren't the bucs in te playoffs? When they needed him in big games he choked. Looked rattled and erratic. 9th in total yards and 13 in scoring both those numbers were both top 3-5 heading Ito the San Diego game. Pretty far drop off.

Care to explain one of the worst 3rd down conversion ratio and completion percentage?

Also sorry. Typing on my phone sometimes doesn't realize what has been "auto corrected".

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Old 01-12-2013, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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I said I like Aaron Murray as much as most of the qbs in this draft. Also I for look at statistics as much as everyone else and use that as an argument. Watching the actual games you freeman just doesń have it. You say I have no idea what I'm talking about? If freeman is so good why aren't the bucs in te playoffs? When they needed him in big games he choked. Looked rattled and erratic. 9th in total yards and 13 in scoring both those numbers were both top 3-5 heading Ito the San Diego game. Pretty far drop off.

Care to explain one of the worst 3rd down conversion ratio and completion percentage?

Also sorry. Typing on my phone sometimes doesn't realize what has been "auto corrected".
Didn't you recently compare Freeman to Joe Flacco? Flacco just got himself a big extension this offseason courtesy of his recent stretch of play, a stretch of play he saved for the last few games of his 5th season. Giving an extremely talented guy that long to shine pays big dividends... I think Freeman has shown enough to deserve the same courtesy. Flacco also showed what a difference a good coordinator can make. Same talent, same Flacco, but under Caldwell the Ravens are a different team. Freeman not only needs to play better, he needs better play selection. During the 1st quarter of the season and the last, the play calling was horrific. So that means there was only about an 8 game stretch where the playcalling wasn't abysmal...and during that time, Freeman shined.

As for studying and evaluating QBs... It's nice to see that most of my recent evaluations have been spot on. I had a huge man crush on a QB in last season's draft and everybody didn't hesitate to tell me I was wrong. I stuck to my guns and made my predictions on this QB. That QB is now in the NFC Championship game. I absolutely loved Kaepernick coming out of college last season. I thought he had a great chance of success. I still think that Freeman also has a great chance of success if given the opportunity.
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Old 01-13-2013, 07:27 AM    (permalink
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Didn't you recently compare Freeman to Joe Flacco? Flacco just got himself a big extension this offseason courtesy of his recent stretch of play, a stretch of play he saved for the last few games of his 5th season. Giving an extremely talented guy that long to shine pays big dividends... I think Freeman has shown enough to deserve the same courtesy. Flacco also showed what a difference a good coordinator can make. Same talent, same Flacco, but under Caldwell the Ravens are a different team. Freeman not only needs to play better, he needs better play selection. During the 1st quarter of the season and the last, the play calling was horrific. So that means there was only about an 8 game stretch where the playcalling wasn't abysmal...and during that time, Freeman shined.

As for studying and evaluating QBs... It's nice to see that most of my recent evaluations have been spot on. I had a huge man crush on a QB in last season's draft and everybody didn't hesitate to tell me I was wrong. I stuck to my guns and made my predictions on this QB. That QB is now in the NFC Championship game. I absolutely loved Kaepernick coming out of college last season. I thought he had a great chance of success. I still think that Freeman also has a great chance of success if given the opportunity.

Listen after watching these nfl playoffs I have never seen Freeman elevate his play against a good team like these qbs. Ever. So he's got a lot of work to do.

2nd: I had Colin kaepernick as a 1st round talent as well. And I myself brasho have hit on most qb predictions. Doesn't mean you're right all the time.

Mike Sullivan is an excellent coach. If he. Wasn't he would not be getting interest from the bears for a HC gig. Freeman just needs to improve.

One thing I seem in kaepernick and other young qbs so far: poise. Freeman makes his usual errant throw he hangs his head and it affects him the rest of the game. Kaepernick recovered last night in a huge way.
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Old 01-13-2013, 10:43 AM    (permalink
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They Alex Smith nonsense needs to STOP. If you're so sure Alex Smith is awesome and would be an upgrade over freeman I ENCOURAGE you to remember his career BEFORE Harbaugh, he was horrible. Hes played well over the last 2 seasons (before being benched), but hes a GAME MANAGER who won all those games by handing off to Frank Gore, and watching his top 5 D not allow others to score. Seems we have our Frank Gore in Dougie... but our defense (outside of the rush d) is pretty bad.

"If Freeman is so good, how come hes not in the playoffs?"

Ill answer that by pointing to games against Philly and Washington. In BOTH games Freeman walks off the field in the 4th quarter with the lead and less than about a minute and a half left, and watches his DEFENSE give up a winning touchdown pass (phi) and a field goal (was). Thats 2 wins there..not saying we would have got in because of changes the whole story, but those games AREN'T ON FREE. Oh yeah, AND let not forget the game against N.O, sorry Free, 28 points isnt enough..and in that game he marched down the field, and threw a GAME TIEING touchdown that was negated by a penalty. Oohhhh AND he has I think 9 4th quarter come back wins.....in his 4th year as a full time starter, at the age of 24

....forget about the D! Lets cut bait on Freeman because he doesn't complete 65% of his passes, that'll ssuurreellyy speed up the process of turning us into contenders.....come on guys...
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:04 AM    (permalink
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They Alex Smith nonsense needs to STOP. If you're so sure Alex Smith is awesome and would be an upgrade over freeman I ENCOURAGE you to remember his career BEFORE Harbaugh, he was horrible. Hes played well over the last 2 seasons (before being benched), but hes a GAME MANAGER who won all those games by handing off to Frank Gore, and watching his top 5 D not allow others to score. Seems we have our Frank Gore in Dougie... but our defense (outside of the rush d) is pretty bad.

"If Freeman is so good, how come hes not in the playoffs?"

Ill answer that by pointing to games against Philly and Washington. In BOTH games Freeman walks off the field in the 4th quarter with the lead and less than about a minute and a half left, and watches his DEFENSE give up a winning touchdown pass (phi) and a field goal (was). Thats 2 wins there..not saying we would have got in because of changes the whole story, but those games AREN'T ON FREE. Oh yeah, AND let not forget the game against N.O, sorry Free, 28 points isnt enough..and in that game he marched down the field, and threw a GAME TIEING touchdown that was negated by a penalty. Oohhhh AND he has I think 9 4th quarter come back wins.....in his 4th year as a full time starter, at the age of 24

....forget about the D! Lets cut bait on Freeman because he doesn't complete 65% of his passes, that'll ssuurreellyy speed up the process of turning us into contenders.....come on guys...
Washington ad Philly?

That Washington game he was the reason we went down by 3 scores at half. How many consecutive drives ended in 3 and out and TOs? And in that final drive free had Vincent Jackson wide open on the end zone and he throws a near pick to nearly lose the game in double coverage which leads to a fg instead of TD.

Philly game? Lol. He sucked the entire game. Completed 40% of his passes. Couldn't move the chains for 36 min. Lol. Te defense can only do so much but when you're offense is going 3 and out in that heat, you're bound to fold.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:44 PM    (permalink
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Washington ad Philly?

That Washington game he was the reason we went down by 3 scores at half. How many consecutive drives ended in 3 and out and TOs? And in that final drive free had Vincent Jackson wide open on the end zone and he throws a near pick to nearly lose the game in double coverage which leads to a fg instead of TD.

Philly game? Lol. He sucked the entire game. Completed 40% of his passes. Couldn't move the chains for 36 min. Lol. Te defense can only do so much but when you're offense is going 3 and out in that heat, you're bound to fold.
The Washinton game was only the 4th game for Free playing in a new system with new RB, WR, TE.

And the Philly game I love how your trying to bail out a defense that let a rookie QB, RB with their number 1 Wr out drive down he field, drop a sure Int and give up a TD on the last play of the game.
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Old 01-13-2013, 11:56 PM    (permalink
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How about just looking at the whole picture and not putting all the fails of this team on a 24 year old QB.

1. We lost our 2 best Olinemen and had to replace our RT because of play.
2. We have band aid players at TE and Slot WR ( need new 3rd and 4th WR )
3. Don't have a good backup RB
4. Our DLine couldn't rush the QB 80% of the time.
5. We have the worst CB's in the NFL.
6. We don't have a starting SLB.
7. Don't have top 20 PR/KR

THIS WAS NEVER A PLAYOFF TEAM! The fact that we played good ball till about week 11 was amazing.

To say that Smith would be better is a joke. Smith leaves plays on the field ( that's why he's on the bench now ) also he played on a team that's playing in the NFC title game for the second year in a row.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:52 AM    (permalink
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And you're saying josh freeman doesn't leave plays on the field?

Look I understand. Freeman's going to be the qb next year. But do not be surprised if a rookie is taken early. Schiano not only wants competition but a back up plan that can replace him if he continues his poor play. He and mark dominik will not risk their job.

Also competition brings the best out of players. Maye that's what freeman needs.
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Old 01-14-2013, 03:13 PM    (permalink
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I have no problem bringing in a Vet QB with the 38 million in cap space we will have ( maybe 40 million ) after we cut Wright and Black. That can maybe take Free's job away.

What I don't want to do is spend a 1/2 pick on a QB. If we are doing that we might has well trade Free and start over. Cause this team has a lot of holes on it that FA can't cover them all up.
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Old 01-15-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Damn all this QB talk let's get back to business. Who do you like with our 1st 3 draft picks and why?

My Dream Draft:
1. Dion Jordan SLB/DE Oregon

2. Jordan Poyer CB Oregon State

3. Joseph Fauria TE UCLA

Jordan may give us a shot in the pass rushing department that we truly need. Let's face it here is a list of the top 5 teams that lead the league in sacks in 2012:
1.(t) Den 1.(t) STL 3. CIN 4. GB 5.(t) HOU 5.(t) MINN

See a trend? Except for St Louis all those teams were playoff bound. POINT BLANK. We have 2 bull rushing DE's already we need a speed/quick twitch guy.
As far as Poyer or maybe we get lucky and a guy like Johnathon Banks slides to the second but I seriously doubt it. We need as much help at CB as we can get. Fauria is a big body(6'7) to help move the chains on 3rd down and in the red zone.
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Old 01-15-2013, 01:04 PM    (permalink
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I would take Jordan as our SLB
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Old 01-15-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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Ehh I've liked Jordan but needs to definately get stronger. Maybe is better as a 3-4 olb. Not sure whether to compare him to many Lawson or Aldon Smith.

Watched Ansuh and I just see a potential stud.
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Old 01-15-2013, 06:24 PM    (permalink
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I like Ansuh as a poor man's JPP. We can bring him along slowly his rookie season and watch him develop since he hasn't been playing football that long. Another plus is that we could possibly trade down a slot or two pick up extra picks and still get him.
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