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Old 01-17-2013, 08:51 AM    (permalink
leroyisgod
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kiper released his first mock. has us taking cooper.
I was fairly pleased with that pick.

Did you notice he had 0 QB's going in the 1st round?
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:26 PM    (permalink
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I believe O-line is our biggest concern, the right side is one of the worst in the league. Free was a big mistake and kills cap room, and are guards are terrible. Would love to get big studcat DT in draft but kinda weak this year at this position. Also with Spencer most likely gone to F.A. and switching to 4-3 we need to get atleast one D.E. in first 3 rounds.

Round#1
pick 18
A)Chance Womack OG 6'3' 320 Guy is a road grader, also only 2 penalties all year. Not sure he will be there at 18.
B)D.J. Fluker RT 6'6" 335 Incredible balance and strength, DANCING BEAR. also smart football player.
C)Sam Montgomery DE 6'4 245 Incredible motor and very productive. A little undersized but plenty of room to grow. Will be upgrade from Spencer.

Round 2
A)Alex Okafor DE 6'4 260
B)William Ghoulston DE 6'6 278
C)Luke Joeckel OT 6'6 310

Also love Mingo OLB/DE from LSU, kind of a tweener but one of the most tenacious defensive players in this years draft. Reminds me of a smaller D. Ware .

Concerned about our DT situation for next year, would love to hear any predictions for this scenario.
Thank You,
Pete
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:32 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, great post Pocketaces. You get what you pay for, we definately need to invest in OL in first round.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P.K. Sting View Post
Round#1
pick 18
A)Chance Womack OG 6'3' 320 Guy is a road grader, also only 2 penalties all year. Not sure he will be there at 18.
B)D.J. Fluker RT 6'6" 335 Incredible balance and strength, DANCING BEAR. also smart football player.
C)Sam Montgomery DE 6'4 245 Incredible motor and very productive. A little undersized but plenty of room to grow. Will be upgrade from Spencer.

Round 2
A)Alex Okafor DE 6'4 260
B)William Ghoulston DE 6'6 278
C)Luke Joeckel OT 6'6 310

Also love Mingo OLB/DE from LSU, kind of a tweener but one of the most tenacious defensive players in this years draft. Reminds me of a smaller D. Ware .

Concerned about our DT situation for next year, would love to hear any predictions for this scenario.
Thank You,
Pete
Love the Warmack pick, but doubt he is there.

Luke Joeckel might possibly be the first player taken in the entire draft. No shot in heck at getting him.

Mingo also will go in round one most likely, unless his combine or pre-draft is just horrible.
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Old 01-17-2013, 12:55 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by P.K. Sting View Post
I believe O-line is our biggest concern, the right side is one of the worst in the league. Free was a big mistake and kills cap room, and are guards are terrible. Would love to get big studcat DT in draft but kinda weak this year at this position. Also with Spencer most likely gone to F.A. and switching to 4-3 we need to get atleast one D.E. in first 3 rounds.

Round#1
pick 18
A)Chance Womack OG 6'3' 320 Guy is a road grader, also only 2 penalties all year. Not sure he will be there at 18.
B)D.J. Fluker RT 6'6" 335 Incredible balance and strength, DANCING BEAR. also smart football player.
C)Sam Montgomery DE 6'4 245 Incredible motor and very productive. A little undersized but plenty of room to grow. Will be upgrade from Spencer.

Round 2
A)Alex Okafor DE 6'4 260
B)William Ghoulston DE 6'6 278
C)Luke Joeckel OT 6'6 310

Also love Mingo OLB/DE from LSU, kind of a tweener but one of the most tenacious defensive players in this years draft. Reminds me of a smaller D. Ware .

Concerned about our DT situation for next year, would love to hear any predictions for this scenario.
Thank You,
Pete
Joeckel is a top 5 pick
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:11 PM    (permalink
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Agreed, great post Pocketaces. You get what you pay for, we definately need to invest in OL in first round.
At this point I believe everyone is OK with Warmack or Cooper if they fall.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:14 PM    (permalink
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Did you notice he had 0 QB's going in the 1st round?
Is there a QB in this draft that you would use a 1st round pick on? I feel like the talent at said position is below average for a standard draft class and do not see anything special in Geno or Barkley. EJ Manuel and Ryan Nassib give you the same thing further down the board.

So zero QB's mocked in round 1 does not surprise me; however, it is inevitable that some will get pushed up the board due to the need factor.
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Old 01-17-2013, 01:43 PM    (permalink
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You like other guys better? You just don't like Okafor?

Little more explanation please...
I like other guys better and I don't like his inconsistency. I can find guys later in the draft that have inconsistency worries and flashed just as much.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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D -

Okafor was lone bright spot on a horrific defensive team. He also had little to no help opposite him for the majority of the season.

I've read about 5-6 reputable scouting reports on him and never once did they say anything about his "inconsistency."

Is he sort of a tweener? Yes. But has the body type to add weight.
Does he need to develop secondary pass rush moves? Yes, most prospects do.

It's a little early to look at him before pick 50 or so, but if we go OL round 1, I think he is a guy we at least look at for round 2.
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:11 PM    (permalink
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D -

Okafor was lone bright spot on a horrific defensive team. He also had little to no help opposite him for the majority of the season.

I've read about 5-6 reputable scouting reports on him and never once did they say anything about his "inconsistency."

Is he sort of a tweener? Yes. But has the body type to add weight.
Does he need to develop secondary pass rush moves? Yes, most prospects do.

It's a little early to look at him before pick 50 or so, but if we go OL round 1, I think he is a guy we at least look at for round 2.
Well he got 4.5 sacks in the bowl game. In the 7 games prior to that, he only had 2. I don't like that kind of inconsistency.

Lone bright spot? What about Vaccaro, Jeffcoat...?
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Old 01-17-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Well he got 4.5 sacks in the bowl game. In the 7 games prior to that, he only had 2. I don't like that kind of inconsistency.

Lone bright spot? What about Vaccaro, Jeffcoat...?
Yeah no idea where that comment came from. If anything Vaccaro stands out twice as bright. Okafor blew up in the bowl game so now he has a ton of hype but watching the regular season tape he certainly didn't leap off the page.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Jeffcoat was pretty solid early before he got hurt, and I meant to say lone bright spot in the front 7 of the defense. Vaccaro is solid. Not Earl Thomas, but a solid safety prospect.

Bjoern Werner, for example, had 3.5 sacks against Florida. But in the other final 10 games he only had 3 total sacks, with zero forced fumbles all season (Okafor had 4). And he DIDN'T show up in the Bowl game.

So, how's that for consistency from a top 10 pick?

Plus, much more to impacting the game than just sacks.

D, you have your opinion and guys you like, and I respect that.
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:18 PM    (permalink
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Jeffcoat was pretty solid early before he got hurt, and I meant to say lone bright spot in the front 7 of the defense. Vaccaro is solid. Not Earl Thomas, but a solid safety prospect.

Bjoern Werner, for example, had 3.5 sacks against Florida. But in the other final 10 games he only had 3 total sacks, with zero forced fumbles all season (Okafor had 4). And he DIDN'T show up in the Bowl game.

So, how's that for consistency from a top 10 pick?

Plus, much more to impacting the game than just sacks.

D, you have your opinion and guys you like, and I respect that.
Actually, I don't like Werner all that much either. I think he's severely overrated.

Okafor could go on to have a great career. I was just giving you my opinion since you asked. If you guys have a guy you really like then I'm definitely not trying to stop ya. ;)
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Old 01-17-2013, 04:43 PM    (permalink
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I think the DE focus here might be overstated. Remember in Kiffin's scheme, getting pressure in the middle is just as important, if not more. Over the years in our 34, we've gotten conditioned to think that pressure has to come from the outside. The best thing we could do in this draft is find a Warren Sapp starter kit.

That's why I like Richardson or Short.
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:01 PM    (permalink
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I think the DE focus here might be overstated. Remember in Kiffin's scheme, getting pressure in the middle is just as important, if not more. Over the years in our 34, we've gotten conditioned to think that pressure has to come from the outside. The best thing we could do in this draft is find a Warren Sapp starter kit.

That's why I like Richardson or Short.
I think the defensive focus here might be overstated. Just because we're moving to the 4-3, doesn't mean we need a personnel overhaul. Our main issue is still with the OL and we don't have money to spend to fix it, so it has to be addressed in the draft. It's way more important than upgrading Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Spears, Crawford, Ware, or Spencer. The gain is marginal. Conversely, fixing the OL will provide HUGE gains.

It's like since we got a new DC, everyone wants to mock us with a defensive player. The only reasoning that would make sense to me is if we let Spencer go... and even then, I'm fine with rolling with Crawford and test him out before investing a 1st rounder on DE. I actually like the late round DEs in this draft too.
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:01 PM    (permalink
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I think the defensive focus here might be overstated. Just because we're moving to the 4-3, doesn't mean we need a personnel overhaul. Our main issue is still with the OL and we don't have money to spend to fix it, so it has to be addressed in the draft. It's way more important than upgrading Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Spears, Crawford, Ware, or Spencer. The gain is marginal. Conversely, fixing the OL will provide HUGE gains.

It's like since we got a new DC, everyone wants to mock us with a defensive player. The only reasoning that would make sense to me is if we let Spencer go... and even then, I'm fine with rolling with Crawford and test him out before investing a 1st rounder on DE. I actually like the late round DEs in this draft too.
Rat is over 30 and declining/injured, the other guys you mentioned arent the problem but Rat, Coleman, Spears, and Brent certainly are. Not saying they are more important to replace than the oline but we still need upgrades and if thety take a DL thats BPA i wouldnt have a problem with it
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Old 01-17-2013, 07:44 PM    (permalink
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I think the defensive focus here might be overstated. Just because we're moving to the 4-3, doesn't mean we need a personnel overhaul. Our main issue is still with the OL and we don't have money to spend to fix it, so it has to be addressed in the draft. It's way more important than upgrading Ratliff, Hatcher, Lissemore, Spears, Crawford, Ware, or Spencer. The gain is marginal. Conversely, fixing the OL will provide HUGE gains.

It's like since we got a new DC, everyone wants to mock us with a defensive player. The only reasoning that would make sense to me is if we let Spencer go... and even then, I'm fine with rolling with Crawford and test him out before investing a 1st rounder on DE. I actually like the late round DEs in this draft too.
I agree with D here. We can make do with what we have and probably be able to get a FA or two that fit the scheme and won't break the bank.

OL is hands down the #1 issue with our team. If we do not get a starting guard in the first 2 rounds, I'd be stunned. That is unless we've addressed the need in FA which I don't see happening.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:29 PM    (permalink
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Scotts new Mock is out and he has us taking, DALLAS COWBOYS: SHARRIF FLOYD, DT, FLORIDA. Think he might be on the money with this pick.
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Old 01-18-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Scotts new Mock is out and he has us taking, DALLAS COWBOYS: SHARRIF FLOYD, DT, FLORIDA. Think he might be on the money with this pick.
I don't really buy it. Jason Hatcher can play both DE and DT and Crawford might be a fit at DE but aside from that the only player on our roster playing DE is Ware. He's going to be undersized so bringing back Anthony Spencer is going to give us one of the smallest front 4's in the league.

Kiffin's system worked wonders with two small ends only because they had two guys over 325 shutting down the inside. We're going to have to be bigger on the strong side end or teams are going to abuse the line of scrimmage when it comes down to strength.

Now if we plan on going "elephant" and having Hatcher/Crawford playing end then I can see a need at DT. Keep in mind we will still have Ratliff (if he isn't cut), Lissemore, Bass, and Price.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:14 PM    (permalink
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Scotts new Mock is out and he has us taking, DALLAS COWBOYS: SHARRIF FLOYD, DT, FLORIDA. Think he might be on the money with this pick.
I like Floyd, but I'd rather address our IL situation. Especially with Cooper still on the board.
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Old 01-18-2013, 08:37 PM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Posted a FULL offseason mock in the new thread as D recommended :) Enjoy and post comments and criticisms! :)

http://draftcountdown.com/forum/show...2&#post3249922
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:14 AM    (permalink
P.K. Sting
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I think a Safety in the draft who is flying under the radar is Phillip Thomas Safety from Fresno State. Most boards have Thomas rated between the 55-70 best player in draft. Thomas was tied for CFB lead with 8 Ints this year, and a Thorpe finalist. Kind of ironic that Thomas is also coached by Tim McDonald, all pro S.F. Niner who's son(TJ) played at USC and is ranked much higher than Thomas but production doesn't compare. Thomas is 6'1 215 who is a great ball hawk, sure tackler, and hard hitter who would be a great mid to high second round pick.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:23 AM    (permalink
Trogdor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by P.K. Sting View Post
I think a Safety in the draft who is flying under the radar is Phillip Thomas Safety from Fresno State. Most boards have Thomas rated between the 55-70 best player in draft. Thomas was tied for CFB lead with 8 Ints this year, and a Thorpe finalist. Kind of ironic that Thomas is also coached by Tim McDonald, all pro S.F. Niner who's son(TJ) played at USC and is ranked much higher than Thomas but production doesn't compare. Thomas is 6'1 215 who is a great ball hawk, sure tackler, and hard hitter who would be a great mid to high second round pick.
He'll jump during the offseason process. In my mind he's a firm 2nd rounder. I have him well ahead of TJ and as far as what I'm seeing the more people that watch tape of him during the offseason the more he'll rise to compete as the 2nd best safety.

I have Vaccaro as the far and away #1 and it looks like a number of outlets are leaning that way as well. I think when all is said and done Thomas will be competing with Reid for the second safety taken at the top/middle of round 2.

INTs are a chance occurrance by the way they will regress to the mean for the most part. I mean Jarius Byrd had an insane rookie NFL season in terms of picks but a lot of them were tips or poor throws by the QB compared to say now when his INTs are way down but he's a far better player than his rookie season.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:17 AM    (permalink
TheFinisher
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I'm thinking about how I'd rank our needs heading into FA and the draft. This is factoring in Spencer NOT resigning with us.

I would consider these our primary needs meaning we have legitimate question marks about our current starter:


1. Interior OL - Speaks for itself, can be either Guard or Center.

2. Safety - Church coming off serious injury, doubts about how Sensy fits in new D. Would really like to have more range and playmaking ability back there.

3. DE - Crawford would probably get a shot if Spencer walked, but he wouldn't stop me from adding a blue chip End if the opportunity presented itself. Have my doubts that Crawford can be a long term solution. Ware is starting to get up there and it'd be wise to start grooming an heir.

4. LB - Lee and Carter gives you flexibility targeting LBs with how they can play any spot. Still need a 3rd guy and I don't see him currently on the roster. Some people have mentioned Albright but the thought of him in space makes me uneasy.


Secondary needs:

5. DT - Could obviously use some new blood here, but we have enough bodies from our old scheme to make it work in year 1.

6. RB - Can't count on Murray staying healthy and need to have a legit back up plan in place. Felix is not that guy so I'd expect to see change at this position. I know RB has become somewhat devalued but that doesn't mean you ignore it when there's an issue, the lack of a running game is not 100% on the OL... The RBs have to share some of that blame.

7. RT - Whether Free returns or not I want to see Parnell given a shot to win the job. He's played well in the little action he saw. Still would be a good idea to have a backup plan in place, or at the least start grooming a new swing Tackle.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:06 PM    (permalink
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Good draft talk over at BTB. Some of our past rankings


2003: Had a first round grade on Jason Witten but took him in the third. Tony Romo’s tag was on the board with a fifth round grade.
2005: Equal grades on Ware & Merriman, with both graded as top ten players. Jerry Jones made the call to select Ware over Merriman.
2006: Miles Austin also had a draft grade (no round specified).
2009: Cowboys had a first round grade on Max Unger, whom the Cowboys wanted with their second round pick. But Unger went 49th, with the Cowboys picking 51st. They had LeSean McCoy with a first round grade as well, who ended up going 53rd, but decided to trade down. Broaddus speculates that the coach may have had an influence ("you have a Barber, you have a Jones") on passing on McCoy and trading down.
2010: Cowboys had Sean Lee on the board as the 16th best player
2012: Claiborne was the second overall player on the Cowboys’ board behind Andrew Luck. Michael Brockers was in the top ten on their board. Had a fourth-round grade on Matt Johnson and Danny Coale.
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