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Old 01-19-2013, 10:02 PM    (permalink
Prowler
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Originally Posted by Maybe This Year Mayhew View Post
We don't have a 4th we used it for Tahir Whitehead. Doubt we get that high a comp pick for Wright when we picked up Lacey and Drayton Florence
A quick google search led me to a site that has predicted compensatory picks pretty accurately in the past. They had us with a 4th rounder.

http://www.detroitlionsdraft.com/201...ensatory-pick/
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Detroit
The Detroit Lions lost Eric Wright and will receive a 4th round pick.
The Detroit Lions lost Drew Stanton who is canceled out by Jacob Lacey
The Detroit Lions will receive a 7th round pick due to their record
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:18 PM    (permalink
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My mock would start with
005) DaMontre Moore DE (Werner, Jarvis Jones)
036) Phillip Thomas S
065) Devin Taylor DE
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:57 AM    (permalink
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I remember that one time when Millen said, "Hey guys, I'm going to draft Gosder, Jordan Dizon, Kevin Smith, Fluellen, Cliff Avril, Kenneth Moore, Felton, Landon Cohen, and Campbell."

I'm going over Mayhew's drafting style now...

1 23(23) Lions Riley Reiff OT Iowa

2 22(54) Ryan Broyles WR Oklahoma

3 22(85) Dwight Bentley CB Louisiana-Lafayette

4 30(125) Ronnell Lewis OLB Oklahoma

5 3(138) Tahir Whitehead OLB Temple

5 13(148) Chris Greenwood CB Albion

6 26(196) Jonte Green CB New Mexico State

7 16(223) Travis Lewis OLB Oklahoma



2011 1 13(13) Lions Nick Fairley DT Auburn

2011 2 12(44) Lions Titus Young WR Boise State

2011 2 25(57) Lions Mikel Leshoure RB Illinois

2011 5 26(157) Lions Douglas Hogue OLB Syracuse

2011 7 6(209) Lions Johnny Culbreath OT S Carolina State



2010 1 2(2) Lions Ndamukong Suh DT Nebraska

2010 1 30(30) Lions Jahvid Best RB California

2010 3 2(66) Lions Amari Spievey CB Iowa

2010 4 30(128) Lions Jason Fox OT Miami (FL)

2010 7 6(213) Lions Willie Young DE North Carolina State

2010 7 48(255) Lions Timothy Toone WR Weber State



2009 1 1(1) Lions Matthew Stafford QB Georgia

2009 1 20(20) Lions Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State

2009 2 1(33) Lions Louis Delmas S Western Michigan

2009 3 12(76) Lions DeAndre Levy OLB Wisconsin

2009 3 18(82) Lions Derrick Williams WR Penn State

2009 4 15(115) Lions Sammie Lee Hill DT Stillman

2009 6 19(192) Lions Aaron Brown RB TCU

2009 7 19(228) Lions Lydon Murtha OT Nebraska

2009 7 26(235) Lions Zack Follett OLB California

2009 7 46(255) Lions Dan Gronkowski TE Maryland

He really did start off with a home run in 2009. He took the BPA elite arm in Stafford. He ignored the OT with flaws and took the elite TE. Delmas was a great grab as a 1st rounder who fell and an obvious starter. Followed with a diamond in the rough type starter in the 3rd. Derrick Williams was the elite recruit from HS who fell type of pick that was a quality gamble. SLH was a major steal in the 4th. We knew what we were getting with Aaron Brown and he was useful enough for a 6th pick as a 3rd down guy. Murtha, Follett, and Gronk were all guys that I loved and deserved to be NFL players. You can't hit on every pick, but this was really an A+ draft in my book. He stuck to his guns, he took the elite talents, and avoided major risk. The first 4 picks were impact starters and SLH would be if we didn't have Suh and Fairley.

Style/Philosophy behind the picks: A+
Actual impact on team: A

2010 was actually a really good draft as well. Suh was a no brainer pick at the top. Best was a gamble, but Schwartz had a ...thing...for him...in his pants...Spievey was taken when we needed a real corner, but he fit the quality tackling mold. Fox was a great developmental pick in the 4th, since in forum mocks prior he was a borderline 1st/2nd rounder who fell due to health issues. Young and Toone were decent enough 7th round picks. Its hard to fault his logic of getting two elite starters, 2 should have been eventual starters, and 2 developmental guys. Best failed. Spievey was what we thought he was (too slow for corner, and too much of a tweener for safety) and has been hurt. Outside of Suh, the rest haven't shown enough to have helped us.

Style/Philosophy: B, gambled on trade up, ignored Spievey's tweener, but hit on concept of helping offense, Suh, concept of Fox, and rest.
Actual Impact on Team: C+, Suh is all that stands from this being an F. Its a good thing he personally influences the game and entire defense from the DT spot.

2011. We went with Fairley over Amukamara and Castonzo. Potential top pick at 13 and went with the BPA. Top 5 picks aren't about need, they are about direction of the franchise and Mayhew was essentially handed a top 5 pick. Titus and Leshoure weren't taken over anybody who really stood out at the time, except maybe Da'Quan Bowers who had health issues and hasn't been healthy now anyway. A hindsight argument can be made for Torrey Smith, Wisniewski, Randall Cobb, or Demarco Murray. We really needed secondary help, but there was literally nobody there and Mayhew went with BPA talent. Hogue and Culbreath haven't done much, but were alright picks.

Style/Philosophy: A-
Impact on Team: D+, Fairley is the only starter of note and he has had injury and legal problems. Leshoure's 3.7 YPC last year isn't exactly Earth shattering. Titus is a cancer and needs to be gone.

2012. Reiff was a good pick. We had to take a successor to Backus and Gosder was poised to be a FA soon. I loved DeCastro, but can't argue Reiff. Round 2 is rough because it was Broyles over Konz, Mike Adams, Vinny Curry, Casey Hayward(6 INTs). Bill Bentley was a must pick. I want to criticize the late picks but outside of maybe Josh Norman, Alfred Morris and Alfonzo Dennard there really is nothing late. Plus, Dennard had major red flags. Greenwood has elite tools(6'1 1/2" 196lbs 4.38 40), Jonte Green has been alright filling in nickel and dime packages. Lewis, Lewis, and Whitehead pretty much took redshirts. If they step up then this class changes dramatically. Right now it stands as 1. Left or Right Tackle of the future, hurt slot receiver taken as if he wasn't injured but then got injured, Bentley pick was letting the ball play us, instead of targeting and taking the best possible guy. 4th round and beyond were all drafted as special teams and developmental guys. To be fair, the draft completely dried up and Mayhew actually did fairly well to take these guys. Seriously, search through the draft history and see who you would actually rather have. It was fair enough. BPA at need, luxury reach, need but the 9th pick at position, special teams and redshirt types. I did want more from this class, but there wasn't much left at the end to choose from. Unfortunately for him, that makes his mistakes at the top of the draft that much worse.

Style/Philosophy: C-, solid first pick followed by major reach that ignored health concerns, 9th best at a position that could have been addressed years ago, and redshirts. Redshirts might actually have been a positive.

Actual Impact on Team: Incomplete/D- for last year. If Reiff takes over at LT, Bentley takes a CB2 spot, Broyles gets healthy and secures the slot, someone else steps up....so many ifs.

This year's draft is deep at late first/2nd round and has quality players up until the 4th round. Safety, corner, and DE run deep enough this year. I agree that anything less than 3 starters has to be considered a failure by Mayhew. If he sticks to BPA then he should have no problems getting us those starters. Look out for WR or RB in the 2nd round. If he sticks to DE, CB, S, and then waits until later to add a RB then we stand a better chance of achieving a deep draft since RBs can be found late. This is an important draft in determining Mayhew's ability to build a team.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:25 AM    (permalink
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or maybe Ellington or Barton in the third.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:30 AM    (permalink
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Comp picks are decided by formula. Teams who lost more than they signed get comp. picks. It has everything to do with who you lost and nothing to do with who you signed except for the numbers. If you lose a starting corner and a replacement LB and say three other no name free agents and you sign a big name, the big name doesn't cancel out your losses. It's one pick for one pick. And who you lost is more important because how that person gets paid is how your compensation is figured.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:45 AM    (permalink
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Mike Wallace - Mayhew thought we could use a head case instead.
Richard Sherman - it's not like we have a secondary problem, oh wait, we do!
Janoris Jenkins - Started way more games than Reiff has, oh, see above secondary comment.
These are just a few names Mayhew missed on. Your assessment is way generous.
Just think that Mayhew's draft and general Manager acumen have led the Lions during his 4 seasons and 11 games to a .289 winning percentage, one winning season...0-11, 2-14, 6-10, 10-6 (0-1) and 4-12 overall 22-54
.289
I'm just saying.
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Old 01-20-2013, 09:56 AM    (permalink
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An injured guy with potential. Hmmm, Denard Robinson fits also, fits mold of second round receiver trend but alas no arrest records... and he was just starting to sound like a Lion.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:07 AM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by weasel View Post
Mike Wallace - Mayhew thought we could use a head case instead.
Richard Sherman - it's not like we have a secondary problem, oh wait, we do!
Janoris Jenkins - Started way more games than Reiff has, oh, see above secondary comment.
These are just a few names Mayhew missed on. Your assessment is way generous.
Just think that Mayhew's draft and general Manager acumen have led the Lions during his 4 seasons and 11 games to a .289 winning percentage, one winning season...0-11, 2-14, 6-10, 10-6 (0-1) and 4-12 overall 22-54
.289
I'm just saying.
I completely disagree. I'm being unbiased. Richard Sherman was rated 30/100 and borderline undrafted by ESPN. He was taken in the 5th round. It is unreasonable to assume that the Lions should have known to draft him. Janoris Jenkins had character concerns and would not have been a better pick than Reiff at the time. My analysis was targeted more towards the actual decision to take someone and any hindsight remarks were just added as weight on my criticism of Mayhew's drafting at the time the picks were made.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:28 AM    (permalink
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Well, I'll just agree to disagree. You seem enamored of Suh and Fairley and they are good players but the lockerroom has never been good here in Detroit and both players had detractors about their characters and the detractors were correct. Titus Young was a headcase and everyone sems to have known that but Mayhew. LeShoure and Culbreath both had arrests and drugs in their resume's. Pettigrew was a luxury pick and is not what I look for in a first round TE. Best=Bust. You find the risk acceptable and I do not. Not one bit of hindsight there.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Suh is going to ask for the world and we won't be able to retain him after this contract, so what about going after Star Lotulelei. Trade Ndamokung before he does something that causes him to be incarcerated.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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or before he chooses to hold us up on his next contract.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:12 PM    (permalink
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Suh is going to ask for the world and we won't be able to retain him after this contract, so what about going after Star Lotulelei. Trade Ndamokung before he does something that causes him to be incarcerated.
While I think it is a reasonable idea to consider, the fact is we won't get good value for Suh. He may get moved eventually, but this year doesn't make much sense.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by weasel View Post
Mike Wallace - Mayhew thought we could use a head case instead.
Richard Sherman - it's not like we have a secondary problem, oh wait, we do!
Janoris Jenkins - Started way more games than Reiff has, oh, see above secondary comment.
These are just a few names Mayhew missed on. Your assessment is way generous.
Just think that Mayhew's draft and general Manager acumen have led the Lions during his 4 seasons and 11 games to a .289 winning percentage, one winning season...0-11, 2-14, 6-10, 10-6 (0-1) and 4-12 overall 22-54
.289
I'm just saying.
Wow you really count 2008. I don't even count 2009 even it is the Mayhew watch. Millen made such a mess, there was dead cap money, so little talent and no free agent wanted to come here. Mayhew went 12 under .500 right away. 2012 was very disappointing but there is much more talent on this team.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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Default Blame him for every one of them. Should we skip some of Millen's losses?

I mean he was handicapped by Mayhew for eight years. Seriously, there are some nuts who think Mayhew is Jesus re-incarnated. He has a .289 winning percentage and the salary cap hell he has us in now is one of his making. We will be lucky to win four next year. The eight games he screwed the Lions with by starting Culpepper placed us forever into NFL ignominy. For me, that was enough. Tie him to Millen for eight years and there is small wonder he has had the worst 12 years atop any front office, not just sports, and he's still here. We will never be good as long as he is here.
They're still my team but it sure is difficult to watch people turn around franchises in one or two years and we are now 4 and half years in.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:54 AM    (permalink
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The back to back losses by giving up 2 return touchdowns is what doomed our season. Without those losses, we would have been 4-1 to start the season. After that, we had 6 losses by less than a touchdown. We gave up on this season when we lost to Minnesota that 2nd time. That was the start of our 8 game losing streak. If we would have won those early games, then our people wouldn't have sagged a bit on defense, throws would have been crisper, and people's focus would have been better. We got stuck in a loser mentality and were lost.

I completely disagree with the salary cap assessment. Who did we sign that has us in salary cap hell? KVB? Burleson? They are easily cuttable or will restructure. Its not his fault that there was no rookie salary cap for Stafford and Suh's contracts. He's taken the Lions from zero talent to actually having a chance to be great in the shortest amount of time possible. The fault is at the coaching level with execution and not giving up bonehead plays.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:06 AM    (permalink
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The back to back losses by giving up 2 return touchdowns is what doomed our season. Without those losses, we would have been 4-1 to start the season. After that, we had 6 losses by less than a touchdown. We gave up on this season when we lost to Minnesota that 2nd time. That was the start of our 8 game losing streak. If we would have won those early games, then our people wouldn't have sagged a bit on defense, throws would have been crisper, and people's focus would have been better. We got stuck in a loser mentality and were lost.

I completely disagree with the salary cap assessment. Who did we sign that has us in salary cap hell? KVB? Burleson? They are easily cuttable or will restructure. Its not his fault that there was no rookie salary cap for Stafford and Suh's contracts. He's taken the Lions from zero talent to actually having a chance to be great in the shortest amount of time possible. The fault is at the coaching level with execution and not giving up bonehead plays.
Agreed the loss at the Titans and Vikings at home was very disappointing. And the Arizona loss.

Lions clawed their way out of 1-3 to 4-4 but then lost 4 games to 4 playoff teams. 3 of them were very close at home. In fact we played 5 playoff teams in a row at Min, Gb, Hou, Ind, at GB. I say that defined our season more not being able to beat playoff teams other than Seattle. But I agree if we had the confidence of 6-2 coming into those games, we may have pulled them out.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:35 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Maybe This Year Mayhew View Post
Wow you really count 2008. I don't even count 2009 even it is the Mayhew watch. Millen made such a mess, there was dead cap money, so little talent and no free agent wanted to come here. Mayhew went 12 under .500 right away. 2012 was very disappointing but there is much more talent on this team.
I agree, counting 2008 and 2009, even 2010 when Stafford was injured most of the year hardly counts against him. Millen left the team totally bare of talent as indicated by an 0-16 record.

I'm far more concerned about the coaching staff than Mayhew at this point. But, we have to remember that Detroit played the toughest schedule this season in the whole NFL so our expectations were likely unreasonable, because this is a schedule/QB league where you can pretty well predict success by the schedule you draw minus the top teams with experienced QB's. This is clearly, the toughest Division in the NFL and we had a miserable schedule. However, I cannot accept a 10 loss season which is why I question the coaching staff but I can see why their chances were bound to nosedive given that schedule.

The salary cap thing is difficult to judge him on. Our top players were all signed under the old CBA and face it, we had high picks which cost us huge contracts, there is nothing he could have done about that. Millen gave the veterans like Backus, Railoa and others, huge contracts as well, which Mayhew was also stuck with.

Next season is the crucial one for me along with this year's draft. Under Ford, we have long been faced with keeping mediocre people long after they should have been fired and if the team flops again next season, will Ford /Mayhew bring in new coaches, of course, I'm hoping for a rebound.
Given the experience of our team, I think 11+ wins is a reasonable expectation for next season and if the coaching staff fails to deliver, we'll see if the Lions have really changed their spots, or is Ford still Ford.
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Old 01-21-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
detroit4life
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You can't blame Mayhew for the salary issue. This was a result of us sucking and having high draft picks right before the new CBA. Bad timing, can't blame Mayhew for that just like you can't blame him for Millen running this entire team aground.

The KVB and Burleson signings were huge to our turnaround season, and these contracts arent hurting us because we can cut them now and not take a bad penalty at all.

His drafting on the other hand has been awful. Especially as of late. This is the only thing I blame Mayhew for right now. The rest was not in his control
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:28 AM    (permalink
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Why is this an excuse for Mayhew but not Millen? If you remember, Millen's job was to disassemble a roster of overpaid veterans. He did this knowing he would lose. Then, he was saddled with Harrington by the Fords and Rogers I believe, too. None of those things were his fault, so why should he be blamed for ownership. Same reason Mayhew should be blamed. He was running the ship. It was Mayhew who brought in a 350 lb. Culpepper, throwing the last eight games of that season. He drafted Stafford so the contract for him is his fault. He drafted Suh so the contract is his fault. He had the option of trading down and didn't. Burleson and KVB are his fault. The character flaws of his draftees are his fault. You guys blame Millen for Stafford's contract and give Mayhew the credit for drafting him. Mayhew threw 8 games to get the #1 pick and now it's Millen's fault he had to pay the #1 overall pick. Mayhew has beaten one team with a plus .500 record in 4years +11 games. All the boo-hooing about losing by one score, it is the same way he won the year before only you weren't crying then. Then, he has abysmal draft after abysmal draft and we are where we are after four years. Wow. Just wow. How many years did Harbaugh need in SF? Oh yeah, he did it year one. Manning in Denver, year one. Mayhew Year 5, no problem, he is not the problem, it's Millen's fault.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:47 AM    (permalink
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That is completely unreasonable. The contract of a number one pick doesn't have to be someone's fault. When you are at the top, you make the pick. It was the league's fault for not having a cap in place. Are you saying that we shouldn't have taken Stafford or Suh? That's incredible hindsight. There are only so many chances teams get to improve their roster and when you are on the top, you take it.

Culpepper was probably our best option at the time.

No, we don't cry about victories by one score. Winning is what its all about.

Abysmal draft after draft is just wrong.

When analyzing Mayhew, its his job to add talent. We have talent and should have produced a better record. We were probably a 9-7 team this year and it was the coaching that doomed us.
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Old 01-22-2013, 10:55 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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That is completely unreasonable. The contract of a number one pick doesn't have to be someone's fault. When you are at the top, you make the pick. It was the league's fault for not having a cap in place. Are you saying that we shouldn't have taken Stafford or Suh? That's incredible hindsight. There are only so many chances teams get to improve their roster and when you are on the top, you take it.

Culpepper was probably our best option at the time.

No, we don't cry about victories by one score. Winning is what its all about.

Abysmal draft after draft is just wrong.

When analyzing Mayhew, its his job to add talent. We have talent and should have produced a better record. We were probably a 9-7 team this year and it was the coaching that doomed us.
I agree, Weasel just has a hate on for Mayhew and we will never convince him otherwise.
I'm not saying that at some point, Mayhew won't be questioned but you don't panic after one bad season that turned sour when you factor in our schedule.
Now, if we have another losing season and the coaching staff isn't replaced, then I would begin to agree with Weasel that Mayhew may be a problem, but that is a year away.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
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Eric Fisher, Poyer, Trufant, Lane Johnson, Phillip Thomas, Patton, and Quessenberry look to be having great Senior Bowls so far.
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Old 01-22-2013, 06:48 PM    (permalink
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I agree it's not time to abandon ship. 2013 will tell us alot. The Lions lost 4 playmakers maybe 5 from 2011 to 2012 without losing anybody. Tulloch and Avril flat out regressed (this was somewhat unexpected), no Best for 6 games(not unexpected but he was in all OTAs) and Delmas missed 8 plus limited in others. That's huge. And then you have Stafford having redzone woes.

Plus the injuries, terrible turnovers, plus the hard schedule. It's a perfect storm of bad IMO. Luckily, it can be corrected, especially if Stafford returns to 2011 form. However, DE, a replacement playing at least at Avril 2011 form, a RB to be a Best and Delmas healthy is easier said than done. Luckily, Stafford awesome again could trump all that.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:54 PM    (permalink
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Perfect storm of bad when we lose the players this year and revert to the same ol Lions. They can't afford to sign anyone, they're going to lose their own free agents and Mayhew has really done nothing to correct that and he has contributed to mess. Not only did he make his own mess in the last four years+, he was player personnel manager under Millen and assistant GM for eight years prior to his assignment as GM. Name one person more responsible.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:02 AM    (permalink
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Perfect storm of bad when we lose the players this year and revert to the same ol Lions. They can't afford to sign anyone, they're going to lose their own free agents and Mayhew has really done nothing to correct that and he has contributed to mess. Not only did he make his own mess in the last four years+, he was player personnel manager under Millen and assistant GM for eight years prior to his assignment as GM. Name one person more responsible.
They can free up 23 million in space with cutting KVB/Peterman, pay cuts for Raiola/Burleson which are no brainers if those guys want to actually start for an NFL team(Lions are their only chance) and Stafford extension (4-7 million room created). Houston/Delmas and one OLB back with that.

It's either Gosder with Backus cut/retired to pair with Reiff or Backus/Reiff for one year. Good either way.

Losing one of Levy or Durant, no problem. Did anyone notice when Palmer started 2 games for Levy and the Lions won both games.

Cutting KVB and Peterman, Thomas, Robiskie and Tyrell Johnson would make me happy not sad.

Corey Williams, no problem we have Fairley and Suh

Losing Avril is fine if we draft a top 5 DE. Give me Idonije cheap.

SLH and Jackson might be needed for depth. I'll be sad if we lose them but it's not the end of the world there.

Draft a DE and secondary help in Round 2. Round 3 you have options (interior Oline, speed RB, speed WR).

Stafford improves back to 2011 form(or split the difference 30 TDs), and the Lions flip their turnover differential they are right back in the playoff hunt.
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