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Old 01-22-2013, 08:32 AM    (permalink
jrdrylie
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Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
Dalton 3rd ahead of guys like RG3, Wilson and Kaep?!?!?!?!?!?

Put down the crack pipe, son.
Two things. First, Dalton has been a very good QB. Is he close to maxing out his potential? Possibly. But at worst he is an above average QB who will consistently get his team to the playoffs. A large portion of the league would kill for a QB like that.

Second, I really think NFL defenses are going to catch up with this zone-read stuff. It was wildly successful this year. I think next year you will see a significant drop in its effectiveness. And by the 2014 season, it will be like the Wildcat. Still part of the game but sporadically used. Can these guys beat teams with their arms when the zone-read is figured out? We haven't seen it so I'm taking a wait and see approach.

Lastly, injuries. I'm less concerned about Kaep because he's big and Wilson because he seems more willing to avoid taking shots. But next season, defensive ends are just going to start taking the free shots to the QB whether he has the ball or not. We've already seen Griffin go down to a significant injury. If the others continue to play like they do, it's only a matter of time before it happens to them.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:29 AM    (permalink
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I know, it's disgraceful.

In all seriousness though the outlook isn't good. While some teams aid their young QBs with college inspired systems and competent units around them, the Titans apparently had Locker running a pre-snap read offense under Palmer with no other unit except maybe the tight ends and linebackers playing at an acceptable level, and are seemingly running with minimal changes to the coaching staff for next season. I've always felt a good QB draft choice is most helped by good timing, and Locker happens to be picked by the Titans at a really bad time.
That said, Palmer did good work helping Eli master making presnap reads, so in time it could pay off.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:38 AM    (permalink
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I don't think Jake Locker is that type of qb though. Eli is a cerebral qb. Locker can barely read a defense. That's not an ideal system for him.

But to be fair, if you can't read defenses, then no system is ideal for you. Bc you'll suck regardless of what the coach draws up.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:24 PM    (permalink
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I'm a little surprised most people have Kaepernick below all 3 rookie QBs from this year. In my opinion if RG3 is able to adjust his game more he can be like Kaepernick.

This guy is every bit the running threat that RG3 is. He affects how defenses defend the run game possibly more than RG3 did and he seems less prone to injury based on his plus size.

However in the passing game he is way more advanced than Griffin. He may have the best arm in the NFL and seldom makes bad decisions.

He does have better weapons than RG3 does but it's not like SF utilise a wide open passing attack.

The reason I like Luck above all others is because I think he can have success with any rushing attack whereas the other top guys' success is predicated on a strong rushing attack. However of the other guys I think Kaepernick dcould have the most success in another offense.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:39 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbluedefense View Post
I don't think Jake Locker is that type of qb though. Eli is a cerebral qb. Locker can barely read a defense. That's not an ideal system for him.

But to be fair, if you can't read defenses, then no system is ideal for you. Bc you'll suck regardless of what the coach draws up.
Exactly. Baby'ing it will do no good. He's got a lot to learn to become the QB his tools say he can be, so I don't see why having someone teach him how to control the game extensively is a bad thing. If he's making progress and learning it, the worst case scenario is that at some point that stops happening and you need to replace your OC with someone who'll give him less to chew on. Only backfires if he's totally overwhelmed by it, just stagnates as a terrible player, and you need to pick another QB.
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Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.
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Most misleading 10+ sack season EVER.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:11 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by AntoinCD View Post
I'm a little surprised most people have Kaepernick below all 3 rookie QBs from this year. In my opinion if RG3 is able to adjust his game more he can be like Kaepernick.

This guy is every bit the running threat that RG3 is. He affects how defenses defend the run game possibly more than RG3 did and he seems less prone to injury based on his plus size.

However in the passing game he is way more advanced than Griffin. He may have the best arm in the NFL and seldom makes bad decisions.

He does have better weapons than RG3 does but it's not like SF utilise a wide open passing attack.

The reason I like Luck above all others is because I think he can have success with any rushing attack whereas the other top guys' success is predicated on a strong rushing attack. However of the other guys I think Kaepernick dcould have the most success in another offense.
Its more that Kaepernick always goes for the sideline or the slide whereas RG3 always wants to pick up more and takes a lot of hits that way.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:21 PM    (permalink
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1) Luck
2) Kaepernick
3) Newton
4) RG3
5) Wilson
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:23 PM    (permalink
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Did I miss something? What the **** has Ryan Mallett done?
Because Patriots.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is way too low on these lists. I really was amazed at how damn good he was towards the end of the season.

Dude is a beast. He can run just as well as RGIII and Kaep, plus he's much more advanced as a pocket passer than both of them.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:32 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is way too low on these lists. I really was amazed at how damn good he was towards the end of the season.

Dude is a beast. He can run just as well as RGIII and Kaep, plus he's much more advanced as a pocket passer than both of them.
Yes. Yes. This...and he is very good at knowing when to slide. Easily the best of the three as far as that is concerned. Wilson is going to last and be good in this league.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:33 PM    (permalink
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Wilson is way too low on these lists. I really was amazed at how damn good he was towards the end of the season.

Dude is a beast. He can run just as well as RGIII and Kaep, plus he's much more advanced as a pocket passer than both of them.
I don't think people fully appreciate how good he's been. Might be because of his height, but that's stupid cause he's already proved it's not going to hold him back one bit.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:38 PM    (permalink
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I could make a strong argument that he looked better than both RGIII and Luck.

He's just as much the runner that RGIII was, plus much more advanced as a passer.

He's just as advanced of a passer as Luck with a stronger arm and more accuracy (at the moment), but better as a scrambler (by a little bit).

He's almost like the best of both worlds. Want a mix of RGIII and Luck? That's what Wilson pretty much is.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:40 PM    (permalink
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With RG3 you have the constant worry of him getting injured, which he's already proven to be true. Wilson is smart when he runs.

And i'd say he's a significantly better runner than Luck.
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Old 01-22-2013, 04:20 PM    (permalink
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I don't think Jake Locker is that type of qb though. Eli is a cerebral qb. Locker can barely read a defense. That's not an ideal system for him.

But to be fair, if you can't read defenses, then no system is ideal for you. Bc you'll suck regardless of what the coach draws up.
You probably have to shore up that brutal offensive line/running game before giving up on Jake Locker.

I've been the guys biggest supporter but he needs some help there from guys like Britt and Johnson. If it doesn't get better I'll be the first to suggest he try for an outfield spot with the Anaheim Angels.
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Old 01-23-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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Bradford will never be elite because Fisher will never get Sam a true #1 WR because his main focus will be building a dominant D and pounding the ball. Bradford does have elite skills though.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Bradford will never be elite because Fisher will never get Sam a true #1 WR because his main focus will be building a dominant D and pounding the ball. Bradford does have elite skills though.
He used the #33 pick on a wideout. That's a pretty clear indication that he's trying.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:35 PM    (permalink
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He used the #33 pick on a wideout. That's a pretty clear indication that he's trying.

He was a project. No where near ready to contribute.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:49 PM    (permalink
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He was a project. No where near ready to contribute.
Not sure how this matters. I said that Fisher is trying to get Bradford a #1 WR. That is obviously true unless you think he drafted Quick at #33 overall to convert him into a safety or something. Quick was in a lot of people's first round mocks, so clearly they believe that he will be a #1.

I don't know why we're talking about what Quick is RIGHT NOW when we were just talking about Bradford NEVER, at any point, being elite because of not having a WR.

Incidentally, I think Bradford is just a dogcrap QB and a fraud. Been saying it since he came out. I don't think it'd matter if he had Larry Fitzgerald.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how this matters. I said that Fisher is trying to get Bradford a #1 WR. That is obviously true unless you think he drafted Quick at #33 overall to convert him into a safety or something. Quick was in a lot of people's first round mocks, so clearly they believe that he will be a #1.

I don't know why we're talking about what Quick is RIGHT NOW when we were just talking about Bradford NEVER, at any point, being elite because of not having a WR.

Incidentally, I think Bradford is just a dogcrap QB and a fraud. Been saying it since he came out. I don't think it'd matter if he had Larry Fitzgerald.

You're probably the type of fan that looks at stats only. If you watched him on a regular basis, you would think otherwise. Sam is deadly accurate, strong arm and very smart. Elite tools. This being his 3rd offense in 3 years has stunted him a little, plus having the worst set of WR's and one of the worst OL's in the game too. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed under these conditions. So keep reading the box scores son.
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Old 01-23-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Not sure how this matters. I said that Fisher is trying to get Bradford a #1 WR. That is obviously true unless you think he drafted Quick at #33 overall to convert him into a safety or something. Quick was in a lot of people's first round mocks, so clearly they believe that he will be a #1.

I don't know why we're talking about what Quick is RIGHT NOW when we were just talking about Bradford NEVER, at any point, being elite because of not having a WR.

Incidentally, I think Bradford is just a dogcrap QB and a fraud. Been saying it since he came out. I don't think it'd matter if he had Larry Fitzgerald.


I didn't see Quick in anybody's first round mock. Some people thought round 2 was a reach.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:14 PM    (permalink
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You're probably the type of fan that looks at stats only. If you watched him on a regular basis, you would think otherwise. Sam is deadly accurate, strong arm and very smart. Elite tools. This being his 3rd offense in 3 years has stunted him a little, plus having the worst set of WR's and one of the worst OL's in the game too. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed under these conditions. So keep reading the box scores son.
You have to stop saying that.

We've been over this before. Joe Montana would be fine. So would Peyton Manning, Aaron Rodgers, and any other top QB.

Maybe Bradford is a little underrated, but exaggeration is only going to push people further away. Next time maybe say something like "Tony Romo wouldn't succeed under these conditions"
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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Tony Romo wouldn't succeed in any situation, it doesn't matter where he is, you know he's going to **** it up eventually.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:40 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by armageddon View Post
You're probably the type of fan that looks at stats only. If you watched him on a regular basis, you would think otherwise. Sam is deadly accurate, strong arm and very smart. Elite tools. This being his 3rd offense in 3 years has stunted him a little, plus having the worst set of WR's and one of the worst OL's in the game too. Joe Montana wouldn't succeed under these conditions. So keep reading the box scores son.
You're probably a llama.

I have just as much evidence for that as you have for what you said about me.

Think about it. I hated him as a pro prospect way back in college. If I only cared about stats, it would have been "OMFG LOOK AT THOSE OKLAHAOMA STATSZZZ!"

i'm sorry that your favorite QB isn't terribly good, but lashing out isn't going to make him learn how to play football.
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Old 01-23-2013, 09:55 PM    (permalink
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1. Colin Kaepernick
2. Robert Griffin III
3. Russell Wilson
4. Andrew Luck
5. Cam Newton
6. Ryan Tannehill
7. Sam Bradford
8. Andy Dalton
9. Ryan Mallett
10. Christian Ponder
11. Nick Foles
12. Brandon Weeden
13. Blaine Gabbert
14. Jake Locker
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:25 PM    (permalink
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Is this poll based on who I'd want QBing my team if all things are equal or who will be better because of the team that surrounds them and the situation they are in?

If it's the 1st:

Rg3
Luck
Wilson
Newton
Kap

If it's the 2nd

Wilson or Kap (both have similar teams built around them )
Rg3 or Luck (look at what they won with)
Newton (still hasn't won but edges out Dalton because I think they'd be much better with Newton)
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