San Francisco 49ers Discussion

[Brent]

Originally Posted by 49ersfan_87

2010-2011 were monster drafts.

that '07 was monster, too.

1 11 11 Patrick Willis Linebacker Mississippi
1 28 28 Joe Staley Offensive Tackle Central Michigan
3 12 76 Jason Hill Wide Receiver Washington State
3 34 97 Ray McDonald Defensive End Florida
4 5 104 Jay Moore Defensive End Nebraska
4 27 126 Dashon Goldson Safety Washington
4 36 135 Joe Cohen Defensive Tackle Florida
5 10 147 Tarell Brown Cornerback Texas
6 12 186 Thomas Clayton

[dan77733]

Originally Posted by Brent

that '07 was monster, too.

1 11 11 Patrick Willis Linebacker Mississippi
1 28 28 Joe Staley Offensive Tackle Central Michigan
3 12 76 Jason Hill Wide Receiver Washington State
3 34 97 Ray McDonald Defensive End Florida
4 5 104 Jay Moore Defensive End Nebraska
4 27 126 Dashon Goldson Safety Washington
4 36 135 Joe Cohen Defensive Tackle Florida
5 10 147 Tarell Brown Cornerback Texas
6 12 186 Thomas Clayton

This Draft was awesome too. Franchise ILB/MLB, franchise LT, starting DE, FS and CB. Hill and Clayton sucked and I dont think that Moore and Cohen ever even played in a game for us. But those five guys definitely make it at least an A grade. 2008 was horrible. DE Kentwan Balmer. UGH.

[Menardo75]

Hill made plays when they played him. They just didn't very often for some reason.

[Ness]

I think Jason Hill just sucked. I remember I was really excited when we got him, but then he never got playing time, and I was wondering if he was really not looking good in practice or if he was in the doghouse or whatever. Then when he leaves he can't even stay on the Jaguars roster and has bounced around to a couple of other teams on the practice squad. Mike Mayock was a little skeptical at the time saying something about him not being as impressive in pads (this was after he was drafted).

[dan77733]

Except for Crabtree and to a lesser extent, Kyle Williams, every WR that we've drafted since Nolan has sucked.

[Ness]

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by dan77733

Except for Crabtree and to a lesser extent, Kyle Williams, every WR that we've drafted since Nolan has sucked.

Morgan was good, though inconsistent. He would have been great last year if he hadn't gotten hurt. He was really starting to turn it on when he got hurt. If Morgan plays in the playoffs last season, we are in the Super Bowl....no doubt in my mind. Having him in those playoffs, with the way VD was playing, would have been huge for us. Having only VD and Crabs as the only reliable receiving targets really hurt us.

[dan77733]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

Morgan was good, though inconsistent. He would have been great last year if he hadn't gotten hurt. He was really starting to turn it on when he got hurt. If Morgan plays in the playoffs last season, we are in the Super Bowl....no doubt in my mind. Having him in those playoffs, with the way VD was playing, would have been huge for us. Having only VD and Crabs as the only reliable receiving targets really hurt us.

Forgot about Morgan. Possible but im not sure since we didnt do anything passing wise in the NFCCG period. I dont think that Morgan would have made much of a difference, if any.

[Justone2]

It would have made a huge difference. We had really none targets on the outside besides Crabtree. When you have Kyle Williams and Swain as other options you really have a problem. Morgan at the very least would make the defense account for him which gives some space for the other options.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by dan77733

Forgot about Morgan. Possible but im not sure since we didnt do anything passing wise in the NFCCG period. I dont think that Morgan would have made much of a difference, if any.

Nobody outside of VD did anything. Which is precisely the point. Another target likely helps you convert a 3rd down or two and moves the chains. We didn't do much passing wise because they bracketed VD in the second half and doubled Crabs on the outside on most 3rd and longs. Having another reliable target would have been HUGE, or did you forget we were down to Joe Hastings and Brett Swain as 3rd and 4th WRs in those playoffs? Those guys aren't even in the NFL anymore.

[YAYareaRB]

i remember thinking Jay Moore was gonna be a difference maker on our team.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by YAYareaRB

i remember thinking Jay Moore was gonna be a difference maker on our team.

My friend, why do you have a Seattle Seahawks gif in your avatar?

[HEISMANHERSCHEL]

I am begging you. Please beat the Ravens. I am tired of Ray Lewis talk. As much as it would suck for me as a 'boys fan to have you win another super bowl, please do this for me. I am so tired of Ray Lewis clips.

BTW, I still can't believe you got Tarrell Brown in the 5th round. That was a heck of a pick. Your team is building themselves up the right way.

Go Niners. I will be pulling for you.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by HEISMANHERSCHEL

I am begging you. Please beat the Ravens. I am tired of Ray Lewis talk. As much as it would suck for me as a 'boys fan to have you win another super bowl, please do this for me. I am so tired of Ray Lewis clips.

BTW, I still can't believe you got Tarrell Brown in the 5th round. That was a heck of a pick. Your team is building themselves up the right way.

Go Niners. I will be pulling for you.

I'm curious as why you feel Brown was such a steal as a 5th rounder? He was flawed then, and still is now. He's a good starting CB but he's also limited, scheme wise in what you can do with him.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I'm curious as why you feel Brown was such a steal as a 5th rounder? He was flawed then, and still is now. He's a good starting CB but he's also limited, scheme wise in what you can do with him.

In what facet? He's been on of the highest graded CB on Pro Football Focus this year.

[Menardo75]

If I remember right he was a first round talent, but fell in the draft because of inconsistency and character concerns.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Ness

In what facet? He's been on of the highest graded CB on Pro Football Focus this year.

PFF ain't the gospel on all things football. Brown has played solid but he is limited as a CB. Watching games should tell you that. He only plays one side of the field. He only plays on the outside(for him to produce at a high level, you have to keep him outside). And he's really only good in off-man coverage. Or did you forget all those years he sucked as a nickelback, trying to play inside and on the other side of the field? It wasn't the coaching. Well it was because Fangio and Donatell realized he's actually a decent corner when he's breaking on the ball in front of him, instead of flipping his hips and having to locate the ball, running with a WR. It was because guys like Nolan, Billy Davis and Manusky were asking him to do things that he wasn't too good at. Fangio kept him outside, which allowed him to play more instinctive, having only to worry about his technique from one side of the field. We still press with him some....and he usually has safety help when we do. He's good at what we ask of him. But anything more and he's the Tarrell Brown of old...that's what I mean by he's limited.

He had top tier athleticism and speed for the position but I never saw him as first round talent. Maybe because I have a slight bias against Texas CBs but I thought he was 3rd round talent. Wasn't very physical(still isn't really) and I saw flaws in him as a press cover CB at the next level. To me, what good is athleticism if I have to limit what I can do with it? In a perfect world, a guy with Brown quickness and speed should be inside on guys like Welker and Cruz in our nickel. But because he's limited as a cover CB, we have to ask a older, bigger, slower CB like Rogers to man the slot. And I don't want it to sound like Brown is a bum because he's not. Again, for what we ask him to do, he's very good at for the most part. But I also see what he doesn't do, which makes him limited in how you can use him on gamedays.

[Ness]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

PFF ain't the gospel on all things football. Brown has played solid but he is limited as a CB. Watching games should tell you that. He only plays one side of the field. He only plays on the outside(for him to produce at a high level, you have to keep him outside). And he's really only good in off-man coverage. Or did you forget all those years he sucked as a nickelback, trying to play inside and on the other side of the field? It wasn't the coaching. Well it was because Fangio and Donatell realized he's actually a decent corner when he's breaking on the ball in front of him, instead of flipping his hips and having to locate the ball, running with a WR. It was because guys like Nolan, Billy Davis and Manusky were asking him to do things that he wasn't too good at. Fangio kept him outside, which allowed him to play more instinctive, having only to worry about his technique from one side of the field. We still press with him some....and he usually has safety help when we do. He's good at what we ask of him. But anything more and he's the Tarrell Brown of old...that's what I mean by he's limited.

He had top tier athleticism and speed for the position but I never saw him as first round talent. Maybe because I have a slight bias against Texas CBs but I thought he was 3rd round talent. Wasn't very physical(still isn't really) and I saw flaws in him as a press cover CB at the next level. To me, what good is athleticism if I have to limit what I can do with it? In a perfect world, a guy with Brown quickness and speed should be inside on guys like Welker and Cruz in our nickel. But because he's limited as a cover CB, we have to ask a older, bigger, slower CB like Rogers to man the slot. And I don't want it to sound like Brown is a bum because he's not. Again, for what we ask him to do, he's very good at for the most part. But I also see what he doesn't do, which makes him limited in how you can use him on gamedays.

You make some interesting points regarding Brown. He does strictly play one side of the field, but a lot of good cornerbacks do. I mean I don't think putting someone in a system where they can succeed to the best of their abilities necessarily means they are limited. Richard Sherman plays on one side of the field for the Seahawks and he's arguably the best corner in the game right now. Randall Cunningham is a good example of someone that fit well in one scheme and didn't fit well in another. I wouldn't say he was limited though in terms of what he could do.

And Greg Manusky is just a bad defensive coordinator. He was bad in San Francisco, bad in San Diego, and isn't helping his case in Indianapolis.

[VAfy-ya]

Originally Posted by Ness

You make some interesting points regarding Brown. He does strictly play one side of the field, but a lot of good cornerbacks do. I mean I don't think putting someone in a system where they can succeed to the best of their abilities necessarily means they are limited. Richard Sherman plays on one side of the field for the Seahawks and he's arguably the best corner in the game right now. Randall Cunningham is a good example of someone that fit well in one scheme and didn't fit well in another. I wouldn't say he was limited though in terms of what he could do.

And Greg Manusky is just a bad defensive coordinator. He was bad in San Francisco, bad in San Diego, and isn't helping his case in Indianapolis.

I think with Sherman, it has more to do with Browner. I recall reading somewhere that Carroll said Browner feels more comfortable on the right side so that's where they keep him. I think Sherman has the ability to play either side really. But even if Sherman is basically on one side, can also press or play off. Brown isn't a strong press CB ,which is why I call him limited. For my money, a CB has to be able to hold up in press coverage. That's where he earns his money, the ability to jam WRs at the LOS, then turn and run with the WR and make plays on the ball. It throws off the timing with the WR and the QB, which gives the defense the advantage. Cully is great at this. Rogers was better last year at it, but is still good. Brown not so much. He needs space between him and the WR. He likes to read the QB's drop, gague the route, then break on the ball. Different method but I think it leaves you vulnerable to easy completions on dig routes, comebacks, and other underneath stuff, which you see Brown give up a lot...becuase of the cushion. Also, Brown gets more safety help than Cully. Now I don't know if Fangio just perfers to roll coverage to the weakside when we're in our nickel, or if its a indication that Brown is the guy he least wants, one-on-one. But I noticed, he does get a lot of help in mutiple WRs sets. Cully plays more on a island when he's on the opposite side.

And I thought Manusky did a good job with the Colts. Its very hard to go from a Tampa 2 to a 3-4. I thought he did good with the peices they had there. Even though its really Pagano's scheme, I thought Manusky did well managing it. They're still lacking a lot of peices though so of course, they're going to give up yards and plays. But he exceeded my expectations. I thought he would be a disaster there.

[Brent]

Originally Posted by Menardo75

If I remember right he was a first round talent, but fell in the draft because of inconsistency and character concerns.

Tarell Brown was a 2nd round talent who fell because he was arrested like once or twice.

[Shupp]

Originally Posted by VAfy-ya

I'm curious as why you feel Brown was such a steal as a 5th rounder? He was flawed then, and still is now. He's a good starting CB but he's also limited, scheme wise in what you can do with him.

A "good starting CB" in round 5 seems like pretty damn good value to me.

[Shupp]

If it wasn't for Kendall getting hurt this year would we have seen any contribution from this years draft at all? Even with Manningham going down Jenkins has been a complete no show. Stephen Hill or Coby Fleener would be looking pretty good going into next Sunday.... Hell I might take Tommy Streeter over Jenkins..lol.

[Shupp]

Hooray for Alex Boone though! I have to be honest I wanted Cordy Glenn bad last year and couldn't believe they picked Jenkins instead. They really nailed it with passing on a guard and trusting Boone. Absolutely HUGE this year.

[Menardo75]

The Niners have landed in NO! A week away everybody!

[HEISMANHERSCHEL]

"I'm curious as why you feel Brown was such a steal as a 5th rounder? He was flawed then, and still is now. He's a good starting CB but he's also limited, scheme wise in what you can do with him. " VAfy-ay. Forgive me. I am not computer literate. But this is a quote from him.

What I am saying is that most 5th round picks are out of the league in a couple of years. If you don't like Brown for whatever reason, that is okay. But the fact is that most teams would love to draft a player in the 5th round that can contribute in any way.

Most 5th round players don't play pro football for very long. Your team got a player that contributes on every play in the 5th round. That is a win. Trust me. Most teams can't find a player in the 5th round, much less a contributor.