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Old 01-30-2013, 09:20 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
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Originally Posted by Matthew Jones View Post
You could also say though, that New England drafted Brady, Ridley, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Solder, Mankins, and Vollmer on offense, with Wendell as a UDFA.

On defense, Wilfork, Jones, Mayo, Spikes, Hightower, Dennard, and McCourty were all draft picks, with Love as a UDFA.

Welker and Talib were also acquired with draft picks, leaving only Lloyd, Connolly, Ninkovich, Arrington, and Gregory as free agents, meaning that almost all of New England's starters were acquired through the draft or through trades involving draft picks.
You can't deny that 2006-2008 was one of the most awful stretch of drafts a team has had in recent memory. Those are guys that would be in their primes right now helping this team win. Instead we got nothing out of those years' classes.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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I remember when the Saints 2006 Draft was considered one of the best.

Reggie Bush- For us, he set the rookie receptions record while doing a little bit of everything. I knew once he went to another team he would break out for 1k rushing.

Roman Harper- **** Roman Harper, I don't care if he is a "Good blitzer".

Jahri Evans- One of the best OGs in the game.

Rob Ninkovich- Didn't play much for us, goes to a few practice squads iirc and now does well for the Pats.

Mike Hass- Dude had the all time receiving record, but failed to do anything.

Josh Lay- Nothing.

Marques Colston- One of the better WR's in the league, Top 5 in almost all receiving records for the Saints. Also had the #2 position for receptions by a rookie.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:34 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Bucs147 View Post
Here's the 2004 Bucs draft:

1st: Michael Clayton WR - At least he was productive during his rookie season. Then... ugh, I don,t want to even think about it. I remember that Bucs fans wanted Steven Jackson. But I guess Jon Gruden knew better... right ?

3rd: Marquis Cooper LB - Played two seasons with the Bucs... as a special teamer.

4th: Will Allen FS - Allen stays around 6 seasons with the Bucs, but was nothing more than a special teamer.

5th Jeb Terry OG - Was a backup for like 30 games with us.

6th: Nate Lawrie TE - Cut after his 1st training camp.

7th: Mark Jones WR - Cut after his 1st training camp. Had a second stint with the team some years after that to be an average kicks returner.

7th: Casey Cramer RB - Cut after his 1st training camp.

7th: Lenny Williams DB - Cut after his 1st training camp. Now in the CFL.

Basically, a good year out of Michael Clayton and a couple of special teamers. Not sure if it's worst than that 2009 Cowboys draft, but still. Here are Jon Gruden's other drafts with us:

2002
3rd. Marquis Walker WR.
4th. Travis Stephens RB.
5th. Jermaine Phillips DB.
6th. John Stamper DE.
7th. Tim Wansley DB.
7th. Tracey Wistrom TE.
7th. Aaron Lockett WR.
7th. Zac Quaccia OC.

The only reason I can explain that draft is the lack of 1st and 2nd round picks. Jemaine Phillips was decent for a few years.

2003
2nd. Dewayne White DE.
3rd. Chris Simms QB.
4th. Lance Nimmo OT.
4th. Austin King OT.
5th. Sean Mahan OG.
6th. Torrie Cox DB.

Another miss.

2004
See higher.

2005.
1st. Cadillac Williams RB.
2nd. Barret Ruud LB.
3rd. Alex Smith TE.
3rd. Chris Colmer OT.
4th. Dan Buenning OG.
5th. Donte Nicholson DB.
5th. Larry Brackins WR.
6th. Anthony Bryant DT.
7th Rick Razzano RB.
7th. Paris Warren WR.
7th Hamza Abdullah DB.
7th. JR Russell WR.

Cadillac had the "injuriezzz excuses" while Ruud was good for two seasons. After that, . What's the point of having a ton of late picks when you're always drafting camp bodies with these.

2006
1st. Davin Joseph OG.
2nd. Jeremy Trueblood OT.
3rd. Maurice Stovall WR.
4th. Alan Zemaitis DB.
5th. Julian Jenkins DE.
6th. Bruce Gradkowski QB.
6th. TJ Williams TE.
7th. Justin Phinisee DB.
7th. Charles Bennett LB.
7th. Tim Massaquoi TE.

Davin Joseph is the best Bucs player drafted by Gruden. After that, it's still awful. Bruce Gradkowski is Gruden's "best late round pick" (yep, that's right).

2007.
1st. Gaines Adams DE.
2nd. Arron Sears OG.
2nd. Sabby Piscitelli FS.
3rd. Quincy Black LB.
4th. Tanard Jackson DB.
5th. Greg Peterson DE.
6th. Adam Hayward LB.
6th. Chris Denman OT.
7th. Marcus Hamilton DB
7th. Kenneth Darby RB.

Sabby

2008
1. Aqib Talib DB.
2. Dexter Jackson WR.
3. Jeremy Zuttah OL.
4. Dre Moore DT.
5. Josh Johnson QB.
6. Geno Hayes LB.
7. Cory Boyd RB.

Another miss... but this might be the best draft he had with us!
Those are some terrible drafts. Holy ****.

Arron Sears though. What the **** happened to him? Did he turn into a mute? I had him ranked in my Top 15. He was one of my favorite guards in recent memory.

Similar to the Texans third round pick in 2006, Charles Spencer. He was a great talent and I thought he was going to develop into one of the best linemen in the NFL.

My favorite draft from recent memory (after it happened) was the Chiefs in 2008. I had an elite grade on Glenn Dorsey. Top 5 grade on Flowers. Top 10 grade on Albert. Top 15 grade on Jamaal Charles. Early second round grade on DaJuan Morgan.

I've never seen a team draft so many players that I was so high on. Then to hit on Brandon Carr in round 5 made this draft even better than I thought. If they didn't colassoly **** up the defensive front for Dorsey and ruin his career by playing him out of position, then there's no telling how great that draft would be.

But the 2007 49ers draft looks like the best one of the 00s.
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I honestly believe Reggie Bush has turned into exactly the type of player I envisioned.
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I would like it if there were more successful black Quarterbacks in the NFL...
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I could possibly see Matthew Stafford Dropping out of the 1st round
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Tahj Boyd has the best fundamentals of any QB in this class, I think his game translates great to the NFL.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:44 AM    (permalink
Don Vito
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Sears had an injury or sickness that just derailed him, I'm pretty sure he tried coming back from it but it just didn't work out. I was a huge fan of his as well. Spencer's story is pretty similar. Hate seeing that happen to somebody.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:57 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by BigBanger View Post
My favorite draft from recent memory (after it happened) was the Chiefs in 2008. I had an elite grade on Glenn Dorsey. Top 5 grade on Flowers. Top 10 grade on Albert. Top 15 grade on Jamaal Charles. Early second round grade on DaJuan Morgan.
.
Agreed completely. If they had put Dorsey in the position everyone in the world felt he should have been in then no telling what that class could have really looked like.


Spencer is an interesting case, did he suffer a weird break or something? Seems like a traditional leg break would be a pretty normal healing process. And yes, those Gruden drafts were all garbage, almost every single one.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Don Vito View Post
You can't deny that 2006-2008 was one of the most awful stretch of drafts a team has had in recent memory. Those are guys that would be in their primes right now helping this team win. Instead we got nothing out of those years' classes.
Those were the last 3 years of Pioli if memory serves? Combine that with his KC drafting record and that is quite streak he has going.
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:41 PM    (permalink
Don Vito
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Those were the last 3 years of Pioli if memory serves? Combine that with his KC drafting record and that is quite streak he has going.
You would be correct.
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Old 01-30-2013, 05:11 PM    (permalink
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I can honestly say that there arent many teams that have drafted fewer starters in the last few years than the saints. Using the 22 starters of the base offense and defense

Drafted: Colston, Graham, Bushrod, Evans, Strief, Smith, Ellis, Jordan, Robinson, Jenkins, Harper

(UD)FA: Brees, Thomas/Sproles, Collins, Moore, De La Puente, Grubbs, Bunkley, Hawthorne, Lofton, Shanle, Greer

thats exactly 50/50 and when you look at the backups its not that different.

another factoid to consider, its quite probable that after this season not a single guy drafted in the 07 and 08 draft will be on the saints roster.

part of the issue is that there are barely teams (if any) with less draft picks usually than the saints but still, these are worrisome numbers
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:08 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by I_C_DeadPeople View Post
Those were the last 3 years of Pioli if memory serves? Combine that with his KC drafting record and that is quite streak he has going.
His KC drafts are underrated, though what Baldwin does in year 3 will be key I suppose.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:15 PM    (permalink
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2009 Bills Draft :

1st Rnd - Eric Wood
2nd Rnd - Jairus Byrd (was ready to commit a crime when we took him)
2nd Rnd - Andy Levitre

The whole Aaron Maybin @ 11 with our first 1st rnd pick kind of messed up our mojo i guess you could say..

As for Worst 2008 Buffalo Bills Draft
1st - Leodis McKelvin - Not a 1st rnd talent, might leave in FA this year
2nd - James Hardy - I'll never understand what happened.
3rd - Chris Ellis DE - I'm Embarrassed.
4th - Reggie Corner CB - So So depth corner.
4th - Derek Fine TE - We just suck at drafting TE's
5th - Alvin Bowen LB - Cult fav. on bb.com but ultimately sucked
6th - Xavier Omon RB - Worthless
7th ROUND STEVIE JOHNSON WR KENTUCKY

lets just say..thank god for stevie...
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:31 PM    (permalink
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Haha, Cowboys 31st. What a surprise. And I'm not going out on a limb here, but can any team say they had a draft worse then this in the past 10 years:


3rd: Jason Williams - We were looking for our Bruce Carter. All he was was a fast LB who never did anything but play special teams.

3rd: Robert Brewster - Missed his whole rookie season due to injury, never played a game.

4th: Stephen McGee - He did beat the Eagles in a meaningless game one time lol. Sucked. He got spot duty but he was always garbage.

4th: Victor Butler - Reserve player. Showed some flashes, but he's a career back-up.

4th: Brandon Williams - Another career back-up and special teamer.

5th: DeAngelo Smith - Cut in '09 training camp.

5th: Michael Hamlin - Cut before his 2nd season, never did a thing but play special teams.

5th: David Buehler - Yep. We spent a 5th round pick on a kicker who only came out for kickoffs. Lol.

6th: Stephen Hodge - Never played.

6th: John Phillips - He was an ok back-up to Witten but nothing more.

7th: Mike Mickens - Cut in '09 traning camp.

7th: Manny Johnson - Cut.



Oh yea, how can we forget this is the draft that we used a 1st and a 3rd for Roy Williams So basically we used our entire 2009 draft class on Roy Williams and a bunch of special teamers. Awesome. Victor Butler is the only guy still even on the team at this point.


Now it has gotten somewhat better, Dez and Sean Lee in 2010 in the first 2 rounds, Tyron Smith and Bruce Carter in 2011 in the first 2, Claiborne last year. Our problem is depth, and when you have a draft as ****** as 2009 it sets your team back really far.
1st: Troy Williamson

1st: Erasmus James

2nd: Marcus Johnson

3rd: Dustin Fox

4th: Ciatrick Fason

6th: CJ Mosely

7th: Adrian Ward

None of these guys were on the team three years later. Including the two first rounders....
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:42 PM    (permalink
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Starts may not be a great metric, but it is a good one. It's not just about starts for the team that drafted the player, but starts in general. If you cut a player that is good enough to make someone else's roster and play - that should reflect well on your teams drafting ability.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:04 PM    (permalink
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Eagles have been pretty good in the last 5 years...

Kevin Kolb (2007 turned into DRC and Kendrichs)
Stewart Bradley (2007)
Brent Celek (2007)
Desean Jackson (2008)
Jeremy Maclin (2009)
Lesean McCoy (2009)
Brandon Gibson (2009)
Brandon Graham (2010)
Alex Henery (2011)
Jason Kelce (2011)
Fletcher Cox (2012)
Mychal Kendrichs (2012
Nick Foles (2012)
Brandon Boykin (2012)
Bryce Brown (2012)
Chris Polk (2012)
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:23 PM    (permalink
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His KC drafts are underrated, though what Baldwin does in year 3 will be key I suppose.
They may be underrated but combined with his coaching choices it was a mess. man, hard to believe how this guy was THE star so many teams wanted.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:06 PM    (permalink
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Those are some terrible drafts. Holy ****.

Arron Sears though. What the **** happened to him? Did he turn into a mute? I had him ranked in my Top 15. He was one of my favorite guards in recent memory.
http://http://profootballtalk.nbcspo...s-of-function/

Neurological damage. Very sad story.
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:33 AM    (permalink
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Welp, the Saints can't draft for ****. Not like that's any surprise to anyone who follows their drafts.

The best year was the 2006 draft:
1. Reggie Bush
2. Roman Harper
4. Jahri Evans
5. Rob Ninkovich
6. Mike Hass
6. Bernard (Josh) Lay
7. Zach Strief
7. Marques Colston
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
Nastradamus
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The Saints have some pretty good drafting on their resume too. I mean, they found Colston,Evans,Nicks,Bushrod and Graham beyond the first couple of rounds and those guys are all studs. IMO their biggest problem is they don't hit it big enough on their first rounders. Guys like Robinson,Ingram,Elliss and Meachem just won't cut it. Jenkins and Bush are both pretty good players, but probably not good enough to justify their draft positin. Jenkins maybe, as he's up and down possibly due to the putrid front 7. Those picks are supposed to be the foundation of your team and at best they are getting complimentary players. Luckily they have been able to find foundation guys elsewhere, like the guys I listed and obviously Brees.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:12 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eliasrapp98 View Post
Eagles have been pretty good in the last 5 years...

Kevin Kolb (2007 turned into DRC and Kendrichs)
Stewart Bradley (2007)
Brent Celek (2007)
Desean Jackson (2008)
Jeremy Maclin (2009)
Lesean McCoy (2009)
Brandon Gibson (2009)
Brandon Graham (2010)
Alex Henery (2011)
Jason Kelce (2011)
Fletcher Cox (2012)
Mychal Kendrichs (2012
Nick Foles (2012)
Brandon Boykin (2012)
Bryce Brown (2012)
Chris Polk (2012)
Wasn't it DRC and Nate Allen? 2 complete busts if so.
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Old 02-02-2013, 02:50 PM    (permalink
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The first part of the last 10 years were horrible for the Bengals. However the last 5 have been pretty good.

'03 was Highlighted with Carson Palmer and Steinbach but thats is about it.

'04 had Williams and Robert Geathers...Both in the league still. Geathers still plays for the Bengals. Chris Perry was the First round pick and had maybe 1 decent year.

'05 was a horrible draft year, maybe one of the worst ever.
Pollack - Bad injury, out of league quickly
Thurman - Played great his rookie year but didn't have his head on straight.
Henry - Troubles and Died.
Ghiaciuc - Sucked
Kieft - I dont even remember him
Perry - Was serviceable kick returner
Fanene - Was a good rotational guy.

Everyone in that draft is out of the league now.

'06 Was a great deal better. Joseph was and still is a great CB. Whitworth is a solid LT. Rucker was solid rotational player and Peko has been a starter on the line for years.

'07 Just had Leon Hall and thats is all.

'08Hurt. Keith Rivers got hurt and traded to the Giants eventually. The only player still on the team from this draft is Pat Sims.

'09 Was a shady draft. Smith started out bad but has been an above average if not good RT. I thought Maualuga was a steal but he has been very mediocre. I also though Michael Johnson was a steal in the third and he has lived up to that. He has played very well. Kevin Huber has played well at punter.

'10Brought the Bengals a Pro Bowl TE in Gresham and possibly the best DT in the league in Geno Atkins...a massive steal in the 4th round. Carlos Dunlap has been back and forth.

'11If Clint Boling can improve and stay a starter, '11 might be the best year. Green, Dalton, and Boling.

'12Zeitler is a great G. Kirk has been injured. Sanu looked good sometimes but injured, same with Jones. Charles, Thompson, and Still are too early to call.
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Old 02-02-2013, 04:00 PM    (permalink
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^ I loved Chris Perry at Michigan. He's one of my favorite college players of all time. I really thought he was gonna be great for the Bengals. Very disappointed that he did nothing in the NFL.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:45 PM    (permalink
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Most teams can look to a particular year and call it a great draft or a lousy one, but as far as year in, year out consistency, I don't think anyone can compare to what Ozzie Newsome and the Ravens have done over the last 10-12 years. They regularly hit on their early picks, and always seems to find good players late as well. Top to bottom they are always as talented as anyone in the league. 32 players on their Super Bowl roster were drafted organically. And the league is filled with quality players they have lost in free agency. They have to be considered as one of the top models for drafting success.
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Old 02-02-2013, 05:53 PM    (permalink
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What's even more insane was that Herm wanted Matt Ryan. He was all over him at his pro day. Had we won the coin flip, this would have been our guys in that draft.

Matt Ryan, Branden Albert, Branden Flowers, Jamaal Charles and Brandon Carr.

Would have been one the best draft classes in NFL history.
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