New York Giants Discussion - Page 346

Giantsfan1080 · 02-01-2013, 09:03 AM

Fewell is to blame.

Rosebud · 02-01-2013, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iamcanadian

I like the Giants and never post to make fun only to offer solid suggestions.

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rosebud

Be nice. He's not trolling. People are welcome to post in our forum as long as they're civil about it.

Forenci · 02-01-2013, 11:04 AM

...yeah but it's Iamcandian...

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

Fewell is to blame.

If I were to break it down into percentages, I assign blame like this:

50% on Fewell
25% on poor tackling
15% on the DL being old/injured/overrated
10% on overall age of the defense

I think coaching can only do so much, bc at the end of the day Fewell's terrible defense would still work if the DL performed and if our tackling wasn't awful. But those 2 things didn't happen.

And to be fair to Fewell, we were 12th in points allowed, which is ultimately the more important statistic. Yardage doesn't matter as much as points, so if we're 12th in points allowed and 1st in turnovers, which we were, it wasn't as bad as we think.

Still no excuse, Fewell had a unit that could be a top 5 unit in the league but his lack of adjustments and poor blitzing concepts ultimately hurt our team.

But let's not lose sight of the big picture here. We are a bad defense bc we are terrible at tackling, and our DL is overrated. Tuck is no longer any good, Osi is a situational pass rusher, Kiwi is average, and our DTs are average (and hurt this past year with little to no depth behind them). Couple an average year from JPP and you get a below average defense.

Now I give Fewell 50% blame bc of his lack of adjustments, my overall disagreement with his system, and bc I blame him some for our tackling issues. I think you have to blame the coaches some for tackling. Bc while I strongly feel that tackling is something that must translate from college to the pros bc it's not taught by NFL coaches, I still have to assign blame to the coaches for not emphasizing it. At least try to teach technique, or emphasize tackling in team meetings, preach it day in and day out. I don't think that's happening with Fewell in charge.

Our tackling was significantly better under Spags. I think the gang tackling concept that Cover 2 teams employ often hurts your teams tackling bc nobody takes accountability for the tackle. They all assume that someone is coming to help out so they don't have to form tackle, they can go for the big hit and hope the "help" cleans up behind them.

This concept is poor and leads to the poor tackling we've been seeing. And it's taught.

That's why I blame Fewell for that.

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

...yeah but it's Iamcandian...

I know. But until he trolls, we treat him with respect. He didn't say anything wrong.

Forenci · 02-01-2013, 11:15 AM

Very well, even though he's pretty much a certified troll.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-01-2013, 02:33 PM

John Mara has publically stated that Cruz is asking for too much money. I don't like where this is going.

Rosebud · 02-01-2013, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

John Mara has publically stated that Cruz is asking for too much money. I don't like where this is going.

Victor Cruz and Ryan O'Reilly are moving to russia together. ******* sports.

BigBlueNorwegian · 02-01-2013, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giantsfan1080

John Mara has publically stated that Cruz is asking for too much money. I don't like where this is going.

I really don't want to play games with his contract. If we tender him, I can see a real possibility of some team giving him a huge contract we can't match. The Patriots would be my nightmare. They are probably parting ways with Welker, and Cruz would be the perfect replacement. Their first rounder is low enough that I think they would consider it as well.

We need to just sign him to a contract, unless his salary demands are incredibly high.

Giantsfan1080 · 02-01-2013, 02:45 PM

Reports are that he's asking for $8 to $10 million a year. That would be top 3 WR money I think.

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 03:07 PM

Looks like things with Cruz's extension may not be simple

http://www.giants101.com/2013/02/01/...r-victor-cruz/

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBlueNorwegian

I really don't want to play games with his contract. If we tender him, I can see a real possibility of some team giving him a huge contract we can't match. The Patriots would be my nightmare. They are probably parting ways with Welker, and Cruz would be the perfect replacement. Their first rounder is low enough that I think they would consider it as well.

We need to just sign him to a contract, unless his salary demands are incredibly high.

I doubt we tender him, more likely in my opinion to franchise and trade him.

the problem is that there are teams like Miami and Cleveland with huge buckets of $$ and big needs at WR.

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

If I were to break it down into percentages, I assign blame like this:

50% on Fewell
25% on poor tackling
15% on the DL being old/injured/overrated
10% on overall age of the defense

I think coaching can only do so much, bc at the end of the day Fewell's terrible defense would still work if the DL performed and if our tackling wasn't awful. But those 2 things didn't happen.

And to be fair to Fewell, we were 12th in points allowed, which is ultimately the more important statistic. Yardage doesn't matter as much as points, so if we're 12th in points allowed and 1st in turnovers, which we were, it wasn't as bad as we think.

Still no excuse, Fewell had a unit that could be a top 5 unit in the league but his lack of adjustments and poor blitzing concepts ultimately hurt our team.

But let's not lose sight of the big picture here. We are a bad defense bc we are terrible at tackling, and our DL is overrated. Tuck is no longer any good, Osi is a situational pass rusher, Kiwi is average, and our DTs are average (and hurt this past year with little to no depth behind them). Couple an average year from JPP and you get a below average defense.

Now I give Fewell 50% blame bc of his lack of adjustments, my overall disagreement with his system, and bc I blame him some for our tackling issues. I think you have to blame the coaches some for tackling. Bc while I strongly feel that tackling is something that must translate from college to the pros bc it's not taught by NFL coaches, I still have to assign blame to the coaches for not emphasizing it. At least try to teach technique, or emphasize tackling in team meetings, preach it day in and day out. I don't think that's happening with Fewell in charge.

Our tackling was significantly better under Spags. I think the gang tackling concept that Cover 2 teams employ often hurts your teams tackling bc nobody takes accountability for the tackle. They all assume that someone is coming to help out so they don't have to form tackle, they can go for the big hit and hope the "help" cleans up behind them.

This concept is poor and leads to the poor tackling we've been seeing. And it's taught.

That's why I blame Fewell for that.

Nice synopsis

I keep wondering if our poor tackling is acerbated by the practice limitations in the offseason

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 03:21 PM

I'm not surprised. I had a feeling Cruz is asking for the farm. I hope we keep him obviously, but we have to be smart with our money. In Eli I trust.

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 03:27 PM

Is it just me, or is a lot of our team going hollywood?

You see more Giant players at the SB this year promoting this or that than any other team. It rubs me the wrong way.

OSUGiants17 · 02-01-2013, 03:35 PM

Cruz wants to stay and we want him to stay. If we can't reach a deal we will franchise him and work out a deal. Trust me, if we slap the tag on him and get more time to negotiate we will be able to reach a fair deal.

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I'm not surprised. I had a feeling Cruz is asking for the farm. I hope we keep him obviously, but we have to be smart with our money. In Eli I trust.

I think if Cruz was going to budge, a deal would have been done. He wants his big payday.

We aren't going to break the bank for Cruz, nor should we.

I hope he is back, but we can move on without him.

The fact is the WR draft class despite being deep, lacks the elite talent along with some teams having a huge amount of cap room. I could easily see a team willing to give up a first round pick for Cruz

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OSUGiants17

Cruz wants to stay and we want him to stay. If we can't reach a deal we will franchise him and work out a deal. Trust me, if we slap the tag on him and get more time to negotiate we will be able to reach a fair deal.

If we can't afford a deal, what makes you think we can afford a franchise tag?

last year the franchise tag was $9.515 million, even then it is a one year stop gap. Using a franchise tag a second time, it starts ballooning.

I think Cruz is eyeing the kind of deal signed my Vincent Jackson (which had a $15,432,000 cap number)

bigbluedefense · 02-01-2013, 03:50 PM

Well let's keep in mind that Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, and Danny Amendola are all FAs this season. So that can bring the price down for Cruz.

I didn't know Jared Cook is a FA. If we can't bring back the Unicorn I'd look at Cook.

Big_Pete · 02-01-2013, 04:02 PM

potenital suitors for Cruz

Looking at it, there are a lot of teams with quite a lot of cap room that are looking to upgrade their WR group

Miami ($35.8m), Buffalo ($20.6m), New England ($18.6m), Indianapolis ($6m), Jacksonville ($22.1m), Denver ($18.5m), Kansas City ($16.1m), Tampa Bay ($31.3m), Minnesota ($16.1m), Seattle ($18.6m)

you can probably rule out KC and Jacksonville, they would have to give the top picks.

NY+Giants=NYG · 02-02-2013, 09:36 AM

The Bucs pick would be nice! However, I hope we can re-sign him. Our offense doesn't have the margin for error like other systems, so keeping our skill players, is especially important.

Forenci · 02-02-2013, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Well let's keep in mind that Dwayne Bowe, Greg Jennings, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, and Danny Amendola are all FAs this season. So that can bring the price down for Cruz.

I didn't know Jared Cook is a FA. If we can't bring back the Unicorn I'd look at Cook.

Problem is, Cruz is probably the best FA out of that group. So if Jennings, Wallace or whoever get paid really well Cruz is probably going to expect more.

Ugh, we can't lose Cruz. This is an awful draft for WR's too.

NY+Giants=NYG · 02-02-2013, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forenci

Problem is, Cruz is probably the best FA out of that group. So if Jennings, Wallace or whoever get paid really well Cruz is probably going to expect more.

Ugh, we can't lose Cruz. This is an awful draft for WR's too.

Maybe Miami makes a play for him. Cruz is half latino, and bringing him to South beach would be a great move on and off the field. I can see him being very famous there.

I would take their 1st rounder as well.

bigbluedefense · 02-02-2013, 12:46 PM

10 mill a season is too rich for Cruz. I want him back bad, but we have to keep in mind what that salary does to the rest of the team. Also remember we have Eli. Eli will be Eli with or without him.

The slot WR is instrumental to our offenses success. Everything we do in this offense is predicated by the slot WR so losing Cruz would dramatically impact our offense for the short term but I have faith that Eli would make it work. It's Eli. He's done it before he'll do it again.