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Old 02-04-2013, 11:05 AM    (permalink
Job Reborn
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
If Cleveland had such a great o-line, how did Richardson underperform while Martin ran behind a make shift o-line every week that featured Jeremy Zuttah/Ted Larsen/Jamon Meredith on the inside between the tackles?

I think you need some knowledge, pal.
Opponents can stack the box because the Browns don't have a highly skilled QB like Josh Freeman?
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Opponents can stack the box because the Browns don't have a highly skilled QB like Josh Freeman?
Josh Freeman may be an upgrade over what Cleveland has, but by no means, was he very good when you needed him. Sucked big time in big games and against better opponents. Guy just can't read a defense.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:08 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
If Cleveland had such a great o-line, how did Richardson underperform while Martin ran behind a make shift o-line every week that featured Jeremy Zuttah/Ted Larsen/Jamon Meredith on the inside between the tackles?

I think you need some knowledge, pal.
You want knowledge? Defenses had to account for Josh Freeman. They weren't able to stack the box the way they could against Brandon Weeden. You think people were worried about needing to keep lots of guys in the backfield to stop Weeden?

Davin Joseph basically can't run block anymore. Zuttah's a better guard than him.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-undeserving/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...gn-carl-nicks/

This stuff isn't complicated, unless you're a clown homer.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:11 AM    (permalink
Job Reborn
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Josh Freeman may be an upgrade over what Cleveland has, but by no means, was he very good when you needed him. Sucked big time in big games and against better opponents. Guy just can't read a defense.
I didn't say he was good, I said he was highly skilled.

In any case, scheme, coaching, the actual running back, opposing teams defenses, the QB, presence of other weapons obviously doesn't matter at all for a RB's performance. It obviously all stands on the O-line.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:11 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Baltimore is going to have to do a good job re-vamping that defense through the draft. I believe they have about 22 mil in cap space and I believe 22 free agents.

They get Webb back. But guys like Kruegar, Williams, and Reed probably will hit the market. I don't know how much Ed Reed will command for another year. I think, since he's contemplated retirment the past few seasons, he'll probably do the same again. This time, go out as a Super Bowl Champ.

As long as the Ravens have Flacco, they'll be in the hunt. Many forget: Ozzie Newsome is probably the best GM and talent evaluator in football. He'll rebuild through the draft and find guys to plug holes. He's got his main players locked up. Soon to be Flacco, Rice, Ngata, Webb, Suggs, Yanda. Some tough decisions will need to be made, (How much longer can Suggs play after a torn achilles aND his age).
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:12 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
You want knowledge? Defenses had to account for Josh Freeman. They weren't able to stack the box the way they could against Brandon Weeden. You think people were worried about needing to keep lots of guys in the backfield to stop Weeden?

Davin Joseph basically can't run block anymore. Zuttah's a better guard than him.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...e-undeserving/
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...gn-carl-nicks/

This stuff isn't complicated, unless you're a clown homer.
Watch the games, don't read a "Statistical analysis" of someone else opinion.

EDIT: Tell me anything positive that came out of the 2011 bucs season? Blount was/is terrible as you can see as well. Watch the film and analysis from 06-2010. Dude was 2 time pro bowler (even after having injuries).

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Old 02-04-2013, 11:13 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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Originally Posted by bucfan12 View Post
Watch the games, don't read a "Statistical analysis" of someone else opinion.
Sure...I'll just trust the huge homer rather than the unbiased guys.

...and it's not all statistical analysis. You don't get to knock them until you actually read their method.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by Job Reborn View Post
I didn't say he was good, I said he was highly skilled.

In any case, scheme, coaching, the actual running back, opposing teams defenses, the QB, presence of other weapons obviously doesn't matter at all for a RB's performance. It obviously all stands on the O-line.

So you're telling me teams weren't scheming or gameplanning against Martin every week? O-Line is extremely important factor going with a running backs success.

Let's not dance around and over-analyze the fact: Martin was better than Richardson, who the Browns, most unintelligently made a stupid move to trade up to take him bc they thought he was "AP 2.0" while Tampa surrendered a 4th round pick to move up 7 spots to Grab Martin, who was easily, the better player.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Sure...I'll just trust the huge homer rather than the unbiased guys.

...and it's not all statistical analysis. You don't get to knock them until you actually read their method.
I've read their stuff before. They said EJ Biggers was a top 10 CB in 2010. Enough said.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:39 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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So you're telling me teams weren't scheming or gameplanning against Martin every week?
Yeah, they were probably taking a defender off of VJ and putting him in the box to stop your RB because ignoring the 4k+ passing game seemed like a great idea. VJ and Freeman are so lucky they had Martin there to distract all of the defenders.

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O-Line is extremely important factor going with a running backs success.
Yes, but they're not the only factor the way you're pretending.

Quote:
Let's not dance around and over-analyze the fact: Martin was better than Richardson, who the Browns, most unintelligently made a stupid move to trade up to take him bc they thought he was "AP 2.0" while Tampa surrendered a 4th round pick to move up 7 spots to Grab Martin, who was easily, the better player.
But I thought it was the O Line that made them? Make up your mind, sillypants.

...and you started this out talking about pass blocking. Why are you now talking about run blocking?

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I've read their stuff before. They said EJ Biggers was a top 10 CB in 2010. Enough said.
Nope. They sure didn't. Direct your scorn at the proper people, please.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
bucfan12
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Sure...I'll just trust the huge homer rather than the unbiased guys.

...and it's not all statistical analysis. You don't get to knock them until you actually read their method.
As I continue to read this large chunk of crap, saying Chris Gamble better than Woodson and Tillman? Or calling Joe Staley overrated in the likes of Tyson Clabo?

All this web-site makes me believe: They just hate on guys who are paid big money. Next time they'll call Carl nicks one of the most overrated guys, yet 31 other teams will love to have him blocking for him.

Nonsense. You are a clown.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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im thoroughly looking forward to seeing how much flacco steals from them in the next few months
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:44 AM    (permalink
Monomach
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As I continue to read this large chunk of crap, saying Chris Gamble better than Woodson and Tillman? Or calling Joe Staley overrated in the likes of Tyson Clabo?
They did...in 2011...when that was correct. They had Tillman far above Gamble this year. Woodson sucked this year. In 2011 Staley was overrated. This year, they have him over Clabo.

You understand that players have good and bad years, yes?
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All this web-site makes me believe: They just hate on guys who are paid big money. Next time they'll call Carl nicks one of the most overrated guys, yet 31 other teams will love to have him blocking for him.

Nonsense. You are a clown.
No, they love Carl Nicks.

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Old 02-04-2013, 11:46 AM    (permalink
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It's always easy to say someone else should take less money.

Of course Flacco needs a good team around him. What QB doesn't?
To put it another way: Joe Flacco should not be paid Manning/Brady/Brees money because he isn't as good as them. He should take less to free up more space for the rest of the team. Joe Flacco is very good and it's good to see him get credit, but he can't carry a team like those top shelf QBs can.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:54 AM    (permalink
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To put it another way: Joe Flacco should not be paid Manning/Brady/Brees money because he isn't as good as them. He should take less to free up more space for the rest of the team. Joe Flacco is very good and it's good to see him get credit, but he can't carry a team like those top shelf QBs can.
If we are to judge a QB by the way he plays in the post season he has outshined all 3 of those QB's. He can win you a super bowl. Pay the man.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:12 PM    (permalink
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I still don't like him, but Flacco did some big things in these playoffs. He deserves the money.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:15 PM    (permalink
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I'm putting Flacco in the ELi Manning category. Both guys still struggle with consistency, but when they're 'on' and playing at the top of their game, they can beat anyone and win it all.

You can build your offense around these guys and win a ton of football games and multiple SBs IMO. Guess that's another way of calling them franchise QBs.
Flacco will probably be overpaid($20 mil a year) but what choice do the Ravens have??

It's the price of doing business and keeping a championship caliber QB on the roster.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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I'm putting Flacco in the ELi Manning category. Both guys still struggle with consistency, but when they're 'on' and playing at the top of their game, they can beat anyone and win it all.

You can build your offense around these guys and win a ton of football games and multiple SBs IMO. Guess that's another way of calling them franchise QBs.
Flacco will probably be overpaid($20 mil a year) but what choice do the Ravens have??

It's the price of doing business and keeping a championship caliber QB on the roster.
Joe Flacco > Eli Manning
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:42 PM    (permalink
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Joe Flacco > Eli Manning
I don't often agree with you Gonzo, but this is one of those times. Younger, just as great (if not better) playoff abilities, and more physically gifted. I'd take him in a second over Eli.
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Brilliant letting one of Scott Pioli's henchmen have his own team to ruin.  One of the premier GM jobs in the NFL and it gets handed to a stupid **** who makes three facepalm moves for every good one.  Awesome.  Just like handing a new Mercedes to a 16 year old girl who's already been in three wrecks. 
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:51 PM    (permalink
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I'm putting Flacco in the ELi Manning category. Both guys still struggle with consistency, but when they're 'on' and playing at the top of their game, they can beat anyone and win it all.

You can build your offense around these guys and win a ton of football games and multiple SBs IMO. Guess that's another way of calling them franchise QBs.
Flacco will probably be overpaid($20 mil a year) but what choice do the Ravens have??

It's the price of doing business and keeping a championship caliber QB on the roster.
Great post, totally agree with everything you mentioned. Eli and Joe are notches below Rodgers, Peyton Manning, Brady and Brees but they are still QB's that can take you to and win you a Super Bowl.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Flacco GON GET PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAID Y'ALL!
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:35 PM    (permalink
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I really don't see what is the hold-up here with finalizing this. Seems Baltimore is hung up over his statiscal numbers in the regular season because his numbers there may not rival some of the top QB's there, but I hardly see why that is important. Flacco has been clutch in the playoffs his entire career, and he's consitently gotten better there. It's like asking if you would rather have Tony Romo or Joe Flacco as your franchise QB.


Romo has had better numbers in the regular season then Flacco has probably every year he's been starting, but we know how he finishes the year, so would that make them feel better? It pays to have a QB as good as him in the post season, and all the teams with an elite QB have to figure out a way to build a team around a QB who makes that much money a year.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:02 PM    (permalink
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I love the Ravens nucleus of Flacco, Rice and Smith. They need to keep those guys together as they are the identity of that team moving forward.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:05 PM    (permalink
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LonghornsLegend View Post
I really don't see what is the hold-up here with finalizing this. Seems Baltimore is hung up over his statiscal numbers in the regular season because his numbers there may not rival some of the top QB's there, but I hardly see why that is important. Flacco has been clutch in the playoffs his entire career, and he's consitently gotten better there. It's like asking if you would rather have Tony Romo or Joe Flacco as your franchise QB.


Romo has had better numbers in the regular season then Flacco has probably every year he's been starting, but we know how he finishes the year, so would that make them feel better? It pays to have a QB as good as him in the post season, and all the teams with an elite QB have to figure out a way to build a team around a QB who makes that much money a year.
They haven't had any contract negotiations since the regular season started. That's been something both sides have been saying.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:09 PM    (permalink
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I love the Ravens nucleus of Flacco, Rice and Smith. They need to keep those guys together as they are the identity of that team moving forward.
Add in the brilliant work of Ozzie Newesome does finding players in the draft, the Ravens will be just fine.
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