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Old 02-03-2013, 09:02 AM    (permalink
HeavyLeggedWaistBender
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
Yeah, yeah. A group of people say this about the top guard every year while the rest of us just shake our heads. People said this **** about Duke Robinson for a while.

The hyperbole on these boards is amazing.
Yeah, it's weird how there's routinely perennial pro bowlers selected every year haha. I am not exempt either, I was full on, balls to the wall in hearts with DeCastro just last year.

Which brings me to my point: DeCastro was a phenomenal prospect and the unquestioned top guard last year. He was chosen 24th (to my dismay...) Now without going off on who's better between the two, the top guard on draft day is not the most coveted player.

So please, oh please, oh please fall to Chicago where you belong.
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Old 02-03-2013, 09:35 AM    (permalink
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Like many have said with the DeCastro drop last year, it is possible Warmack will drop.

But unlike past years you do not have elite quarterbacks, receivers or cornerbacks in the mix that will all go top 10. Patterson has potential to go top 10 as a receiver but I doubt anyone else, and Milliner as a top 10 pick is a gamble a little for his talent level and quarterbacks, sure Smith or Barkley might go in the top 10 but they also could easily fall out. Thus that opens up a lot of spots.

So I would not be surprised at all to see him as a top 10 pick. Chiefs could take him, Jaguars, Titans, Lions or Eagles. All are possibilities and that is not even talking about any trades.

With this draft class he should go top 10 I feel just based on who else is around.
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Old 02-03-2013, 11:19 AM    (permalink
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I am really pushing the Warmack to the Jets at 9 bandwagon. I know that the value of an OG typically does not lend to a top 10 pick, but this is a special player. The Jets do not have a guard on the roster under contract besides Vladimir Ducasse. With Warmack at 9 and resigning Brandon Moore to a reasonable short term deal, the Jets O-Line will be back next year. That is a very good start to a rebuild. When you draft in the top 10, you need to take sure things. Warmack is the safest pick in this draft, bar none.
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Old 02-03-2013, 12:10 PM    (permalink
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I am really pushing the Warmack to the Jets at 9 bandwagon. I know that the value of an OG typically does not lend to a top 10 pick, but this is a special player. The Jets do not have a guard on the roster under contract besides Vladimir Ducasse. With Warmack at 9 and resigning Brandon Moore to a reasonable short term deal, the Jets O-Line will be back next year. That is a very good start to a rebuild. When you draft in the top 10, you need to take sure things. Warmack is the safest pick in this draft, bar none.
i am a Jets fan too and I would like that pick as a fan. It would create a super unit But if that went down the Jets would have an 8 million dollar guard, to go with Brick and Mangold making huge money also. Meanwhile Brandon Moore made 2.5 mil this year.

Is Chance Warmack 6.5 million dollars better than Brandon Moore? Put it another way the Jets OL just got graded out 3rd overall by PFF. If that's wrong let's say they are not 3rd they are 10th overall. Is getting the Line from 10 to 2 really what's wrong with this team?

OLB and WR are much worse problems than guard.
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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i am a Jets fan too and I would like that pick as a fan. It would create a super unit But if that went down the Jets would have an 8 million dollar guard, to go with Brick and Mangold making huge money also. Meanwhile Brandon Moore made 2.5 mil this year.

Is Chance Warmack 6.5 million dollars better than Brandon Moore? Put it another way the Jets OL just got graded out 3rd overall by PFF. If that's wrong let's say they are not 3rd they are 10th overall. Is getting the Line from 10 to 2 really what's wrong with this team?

OLB and WR are much worse problems than guard.
i'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about, lol?

Last year's #9 pick: 4 years, 12.58 million, 7.5 million of it guaranteed.
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Old 02-03-2013, 05:21 PM    (permalink
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I'm going to say it. He will go closer to the Patriots pick (29th) than 5th overall, which basically means 17 or later.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Iamcanadian View Post

Sorry but Warmack is rated way ahead of DeCastro. The NFL pre season ranking found on NFL.com lists Warmack as the top rated prospect in this year's draft even ahead of Joeckel.

Warmack is probably the best OG prospect of the last decade at least, he might get out of the top 5, but top 10 is a strong possibility. He will be every team not playing a ZBS, top ranked, BPA. His position will make team's think twice, no doubt about it, however his ranking suggest a HOF ceiling with only Joeckel close to that rating. No other prospects in this year's draft, carry close to that potential. He dominates every player he faces in the SEC both as a run blocker and a pass blocker and each GM drafting will have to ask himself, do I take a potential HOFer or do I draft another very good player who has only a small chance of being a HOFer.

I completely admit that if the top end of this year's draft was blue chip then Warmack would stand little chance of going that high, but outside of Joeckel and perhaps Fisher, there is nobody ranked as elite in this year's draft, so what type of GM is everybody, BPA or fill a position of need with a very good player.
decastro was better...the top guy always seems to be the best in the last decade, its such a draft cliche
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:48 PM    (permalink
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Warmack is awesome.

But positional value always creeps into the conversation and influences teams.

We saw it last year and the truth is that teams don't like taking top 20 OGs because there is value later on.

If your the Titans do you take Warmack at 10 or wait, take a DLmen, and draft Warford at 42?

Both Warnack and Warford are going to be good and start for 10 years.

The difference between the DLmen will be far greater.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:12 AM    (permalink
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Not sure what that has to do with anything- dude said OG's dont happen in the top 5
Gallery and Davis were drafted to be tackles...they were salvaged as guards because of the money that was owed to both men where they could not be cut clean. However, both Oakland and Arizona envisioned both men as their starting left tackles for years to come.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:14 AM    (permalink
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I am really pushing the Warmack to the Jets at 9 bandwagon. I know that the value of an OG typically does not lend to a top 10 pick, but this is a special player. The Jets do not have a guard on the roster under contract besides Vladimir Ducasse. With Warmack at 9 and resigning Brandon Moore to a reasonable short term deal, the Jets O-Line will be back next year. That is a very good start to a rebuild. When you draft in the top 10, you need to take sure things. Warmack is the safest pick in this draft, bar none.
If we can trade down to 13 or 14, count me in on the Warmack bandwagon. I just think we can do a small trade down and get a pick or two in the process AND get Warmack.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:51 AM    (permalink
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If we can trade down to 13 or 14, count me in on the Warmack bandwagon. I just think we can do a small trade down and get a pick or two in the process AND get Warmack.
But in order to trade down, you need a partner. I would think your best chance might be if somehow Star was to fall to that spot, then you would almost certainly find teams calling for a chance to move up, maybe Carolina. New Orleans might want to move up, but they have no second round pick to barter with. Unlike last year, I think it is becoming accepted belief that this draft is very deep in talent, but short on elite talent. I don't see much movement until we get to the 20's at the earliest.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:58 AM    (permalink
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i'm sorry, but what the hell are you talking about, lol?

Last year's #9 pick: 4 years, 12.58 million, 7.5 million of it guaranteed.
7.5 is the signing bonus plus another 2.5 mil salary so yeah it's alot of change for a guard. I really like this player (way more than Decastro) but it's a long shot that he goes top 10.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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7.5 is the signing bonus plus another 2.5 mil salary so yeah it's alot of change for a guard. I really like this player (way more than Decastro) but it's a long shot that he goes top 10.
That signing bonus doesn't hit your cap all in year one. It's spread out equally for the entire length of the contract, duder.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:05 PM    (permalink
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That signing bonus doesn't hit your cap all in year one. It's spread out equally for the entire length of the contract, duder.
it's still US currency used in exchange for goods and services.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:27 PM    (permalink
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it's still US currency used in exchange for goods and services.
Yeah, but you were talking about it like it was his one year cost because you compared it to another guard's one year cost.

It'd be like saying "So Joe Flacco's getting paid 60 million and Aaron Rodgers is only making 10" after Flacco signs his contract. You were comparing one guard's 4-year signing bonus + his one-year salary to another's pay for just one season.

It's comparing apples to guitars.

You can't say one guy's getting paid 120,000 at work while you're only making 40,000 just because you're comparing his 3 year salary to your one year salary...

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Old 02-04-2013, 01:36 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, but you were talking about it like it was his one year cost because you compared it to another guard's one year cost.

It'd be like saying "So Joe Flacco's getting paid 60 million and Aaron Rodgers is only making 10" after Flacco signs his contract. You were comparing one guard's 4-year signing bonus + his one-year salary to another's pay for just one season.

It's comparing apples to guitars.

You can't say one guy's getting paid 120,000 at work while you're only making 40,000 just because you're comparing his 3 year salary to your one year salary...
I wasn't making a general point about guards. Good guards to get big money (see the Tampa Bay Bucs OL).

my main point is the Jets have big money at LT and C they don't need more big money at G. The original comparison you nitpicked was Chance to Brandon Moore.

Whether it's an FA or draft pick it's not really a dire need for that team. None of the top 10 teams really do. Even the Cards who have a pretty bad OL have money at guard (they could use a tackle). Titans just paid alot of money to Hutch. Drafting Chance doesn't radically change these teams.

For a team like SD, STL or CHI who have atrocious lines, yeah maybe Chance makes sense. I don't see him going top 10.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:53 PM    (permalink
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David DeCastro was the best OG in the last decade. Thought that by everyone. How much did that help the Steeler's this year?

Teams picking at the top of the draft are NOT going to be taking a Guard no matter HOW good he is. They want a guy who can turn around their franchise.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:00 PM    (permalink
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I wasn't making a general point about guards. Good guards to get big money (see the Tampa Bay Bucs OL).

my main point is the Jets have big money at LT and C they don't need more big money at G. The original comparison you nitpicked was Chance to Brandon Moore.

Whether it's an FA or draft pick it's not really a dire need for that team. None of the top 10 teams really do. Even the Cards who have a pretty bad OL have money at guard (they could use a tackle). Titans just paid alot of money to Hutch. Drafting Chance doesn't radically change these teams.

For a team like SD, STL or CHI who have atrocious lines, yeah maybe Chance makes sense. I don't see him going top 10.
His first year cap if picked at #9 would be around 2.3 mil (per Kuechly 2012), which is actually less than Moore's, but you acted like it was 8 mil.

That's not big money for a guard. That's average money for a guard. That's about what it would cost to re-sign Matt Slauson. Bug money for a guard is Carl Nicks with his 14.8 million cap hit last year.

You still made absolutely no sense when you said this, and this is what we've been talking about...don't change the subject:
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i am a Jets fan too and I would like that pick as a fan. It would create a super unit But if that went down the Jets would have an 8 million dollar guard, to go with Brick and Mangold making huge money also. Meanwhile Brandon Moore made 2.5 mil this year.

Is Chance Warmack 6.5 million dollars better than Brandon Moore?
1. How is Chance an $8 milion dollar guard? What on earth were you saying?
2. How does his pay for multiple years have anything to do with Brandon Moore's for one year? What is your purpose in comparing these?
3. How is 12 mil over 4 years "big money" when 90% of starting guards make more than that?

These are what I questioned in the first place. These make no sense. You've danced around it instead of answering me.

I never, ever said that you should draft a guard top ten. Stop arguing as if I did and just explain what the hell you were talking about when you said something that sounded like it came from 2005's draft pay scale.
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Old 02-04-2013, 02:03 PM    (permalink
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David DeCastro was the best OG in the last decade. Thought that by everyone. How much did that help the Steeler's this year?

Teams picking at the top of the draft are NOT going to be taking a Guard no matter HOW good he is. They want a guy who can turn around their franchise.
would have helped a lot more if he didnt blow out his knee in preseason lol
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:09 PM    (permalink
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David DeCastro was the best OG in the last decade. Thought that by everyone. How much did that help the Steeler's this year?
He tore his ACL, though.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:16 PM    (permalink
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He tore his ACL, though.
doh! haha. k ma bad.

I follow the steelerzzz. Still... top 5/10 pick for Warmack is unbelievable to me.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:28 PM    (permalink
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You still made absolutely no sense when you said this, and this is what we've been talking about...don't change the subject:

1. How is Chance an $8 milion dollar guard? What on earth were you saying?
2. How does his pay for multiple years have anything to do with Brandon Moore's for one year? What is your purpose in comparing these?
3. How is 12 mil over 4 years "big money" when 90% of starting guards make more than that?
1) The owner of the Jets will have to pay whoever they pick at 9, roughly 8 million actual dollars. Didn't say a cap hit of 8 million. talking about writing the check. It's alot of money to a position they already have alot of money tied up.

2) I was really comparing the players not the price. Is Chance that much better than Brandon Moore. You want to focus on the average price per year or whatever, I'm just asking the simple question what does the Jets offense look like with Chance or what does it look like if they resign Moore. I don't see a huge difference. their problems are at other positions. By the way PFF graded the Jets line out as 3rd best in the whole league last year.

3) Can you back that statement up? 90% of the starting guards (that's 32 teams x 2 = 64 starting guards - 10% = about 58 guards making more than 3 mil per year?) That seems way high. maybe it's true. I don't know. Would love to see a link on that one.

my impression was that only top 10 guards even made close to that, and maybe only half of those guys actually made over 3. I know for a fact Matt Slauson made peanuts last year so that means only 5 other guards who started made less than 3 mil, if your 90% stat is true.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:59 PM    (permalink
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1) The owner of the Jets will have to pay whoever they pick at 9, roughly 8 million actual dollars. Didn't say a cap hit of 8 million. talking about writing the check. It's alot of money to a position they already have alot of money tied up.
Yes, but it's part of his pay for future years. Any starting caliber guard you sign is going to get a signing bonus, including Moore. Why do you care whether part of his future pay is up front? Woody is rich enough to give Sanchez a 28M signing bonus and then another 8M signing bonus. I think he can handle 7M for a guard.

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2) I was really comparing the players not the price.
Except you compared the price, which is what I bolded and quite clearly responded to.

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Is Chance that much better than Brandon Moore. You want to focus on the average price per year or whatever, I'm just asking the simple question what does the Jets offense look like with Chance or what does it look like if they resign Moore. I don't see a huge difference. their problems are at other positions.
Don't know, but Moore is 32 years old and in the last couple of years of his career. Warmack is 21 and at the start. Doesn't matter, though. I assume you would re-sign Moore regardless of who you draft. It's Slauson that's going to be walking.

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By the way PFF graded the Jets line out as 3rd best in the whole league last year.
Irrelevant to anything I've said.

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3) Can you back that statement up? 90% of the starting guards (that's 32 teams x 2 = 64 starting guards - 10% = about 58 guards making more than 3 mil per year?) That seems way high. maybe it's true. I don't know. Would love to see a link on that one.
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/ Start looking at guards.

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my impression was that only top 10 guards even made close to that, and maybe only half of those guys actually made over 3. I know for a fact Matt Slauson made peanuts last year so that means only 5 other guards who started made less than 3 mil, if your 90% stat is true.
Here are some big guard contracts that I can remember:
Nicks: 9.50 per year
mankins 8.50 per year
Evans: 8.10 per year
Faneca: 8.00 per year
Joseph: 7.50 per year
Snee: 7.25 per year
Grubbs: 7.20 per year
Davis 7.09 per year
Hutchinson: 7.00 per year
Sitton: 6.75 per year

All in a different galaxy from 3 per year. Even Moore's contract averaged 4 mil per year.

There are more. These are guys I remembered just off the top of my head, though.

Slauson was on a 6th rounder's rookie contract. Not too common to get a starter in the sixth round where they make no money.
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Old 02-04-2013, 04:30 PM    (permalink
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I sure as hell hope not. I want him in a Titans uniform.
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I heard that Sylvester Stallone wrote The Expendables with The Alex in mind. He had to keep it realistic though and split The Alex's abilities into multiple characters. Stallone thought that critics would pan it for being too far-fetched if he just had one character effing everyone up.
The end. Cut to black. Audience goes ****ing ape****.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:10 AM    (permalink
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All in a different galaxy from 3 per year. Even Moore's contract averaged 4 mil per year.


Slauson was on a 6th rounder's rookie contract. Not too common to get a starter in the sixth round where they make no money.

you said 90% of the starting guards in the league make more than 4 mil per year and then named 10. Great job only 48 more guards to go.

By the way Vlad Ducasse played 40% of the snaps last year and he's a likely replacement for Slauson.

again the Jets were rated the 3rd best OL from PFF, why would they go top 10 at guard?
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