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Old 02-04-2013, 09:54 AM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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Originally Posted by Black Bolt View Post
Well, looks like you have researched Glennon's situation well. But I can't help but remember the similar argument made for Jake Locker two years ago.

Also, as far as your stance on Matt Ryan being held back by the offensive system, the lack of TALENT around him at BC superceded the shortcomings of the offense. Try to name another skill player on that offense. Matt Ryan performed incredibly with that derth of talent, unlike Locker.
Huh, your saying Washington was a talented team when Locker was there??? They haven't been competitive for years and are just returning to some kind of semblance of a good college program after years mired in mediocrity.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:41 AM    (permalink
Black Bolt
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Huh, your saying Washington was a talented team when Locker was there??? They haven't been competitive for years and are just returning to some kind of semblance of a good college program after years mired in mediocrity.
No I am not, I'm saying that neither had good talent, but Ryan accomplished much more.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:31 AM    (permalink
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I think his ceiling is that of a poor man's Kerry Collins, and that's after he develops a grown man's body.

I like Glennon for several personal reasons,(watched his HS and college career and basically just regional pride being from Northern Va.), but people need to realize Mike Glennon was 195# in HS at 6'6. He's 220# now and I don't think he's getting much bigger.

I still question his decision making at times, hopefully that can improve with better QB coaching in the pros.

I think the first couple of years of Glennon's pro career are going to be rocky, even more so if he's expected to start as a rookie. But I do see him potentially developing into a solid NFL starter.

People keep comparing him to Flacco and Matt Ryan. I think Glennon's game is more Nick Foles, another QB knocked for poor decision making in college who looked like a different player in the NFL.

I think Reid/KC can win with either Smith or Glennon, but IMO the Chiefs can win sooner with Geno than they can with Glennon.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:35 AM    (permalink
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Huh, your saying Washington was a talented team when Locker was there??? They haven't been competitive for years and are just returning to some kind of semblance of a good college program after years mired in mediocrity.
Completely off track here but the Titans need to employ the spread option more with Locker.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:40 PM    (permalink
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Completely off track here but the Titans need to employ the spread option more with Locker.
YES they do!
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:47 PM    (permalink
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I like Glennon for several personal reasons,(watched his HS and college career and basically just regional pride being from Northern Va.), but people need to realize Mike Glennon was 195# in HS at 6'6. He's 220# now and I don't think he's getting much bigger.

I still question his decision making at times, hopefully that can improve with better QB coaching in the pros.

I think the first couple of years of Glennon's pro career are going to be rocky, even more so if he's expected to start as a rookie. But I do see him potentially developing into a solid NFL starter.

People keep comparing him to Flacco and Matt Ryan. I think Glennon's game is more Nick Foles, another QB knocked for poor decision making in college who looked like a different player in the NFL.

I think Reid/KC can win with either Smith or Glennon, but IMO the Chiefs can win sooner with Geno than they can with Glennon.
I am seriously struggling to remain objective considering this brother's run at my alma mater!

I don't see Foles because Foles actually has some "pocket quickness" whereas Glennon moves like he is one of those guys on stilts in a Caribean Day parade. I said no better than Kerry Collins, top end.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:16 PM    (permalink
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Well, looks like you have researched Glennon's situation well. But I can't help but remember the similar argument made for Jake Locker two years ago.

Also, as far as your stance on Matt Ryan being held back by the offensive system, the lack of TALENT around him at BC superceded the shortcomings of the offense. Try to name another skill player on that offense. Matt Ryan performed incredibly with that derth of talent, unlike Locker.
Andre Callender. Now name a player on NC State's offense. Any player. At least Ryan had a half decent OL.

I didn't like Locker because there's a base level you have to play at regardless of circumstance. I don't think he met that. Most great NFL QBs will drag the performance of their college team above their historic level.

That's a big red flag with Glennon. I've said all along he was not as good as Wilson running the same offense with some of the same players. Although, it should be mentioned none of the QBs in this year's class meet that requirement.

That's really what it comes down to. Rank the QBs in this year's class. Torrey Smith is a fantastic WR and now a Super Bowl champion. He was the #3 WR in his class and so far, I'd say that's deserving. That was worth a first rounder. Is the #3 QB this year worth a first rounder? I don't know...

FWIW, Locker still went 8th. A lot of people, myself included, thought Flacco was a reach.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:26 PM    (permalink
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Andre Callender. Now name a player on NC State's offense. Any player. At least Ryan had a half decent OL.

I didn't like Locker because there's a base level you have to play at regardless of circumstance. I don't think he met that. Most great NFL QBs will drag the performance of their college team above their historic level.

That's a big red flag with Glennon. I've said all along he was not as good as Wilson running the same offense with some of the same players. Although, it should be mentioned none of the QBs in this year's class meet that requirement.

That's really what it comes down to. Rank the QBs in this year's class. Torrey Smith is a fantastic WR and now a Super Bowl champion. He was the #3 WR in his class and so far, I'd say that's deserving. That was worth a first rounder. Is the #3 QB this year worth a first rounder? I don't know...

FWIW, Locker still went 8th. A lot of people, myself included, thought Flacco was a reach.
LOL!! Not exactly a household name, that Andre Callender.

T.J. Graham was Glennon's main target last year. Without googling, I believe he got drafted in the third round. Callender probably does his lawn.
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Old 02-04-2013, 01:46 PM    (permalink
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Graham was on the team last year. Glennon's caught a fair amount of criticism for the stats he put up this year with Graham's replacements who couldnt catch a golf ball with a catcher's mitt.

Also, Graham was mostly considered a returner/athlete who couldn't play WR until his senior year.

It's weird how I have to defend Glennon here b/c whenever I discuss with him with other State fans they all tell me that I hate him.

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Old 02-04-2013, 02:14 PM    (permalink
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Completely off track here but the Titans need to employ the spread option more with Locker.
They have so many problems on offense from a real bad interior line to porbably losing their TE to have a running game that gets 2 ypc. Did i mention their top WR is a ###ing idiot.
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Old 02-04-2013, 03:47 PM    (permalink
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Andre Callender. Now name a player on NC State's offense. Any player. At least Ryan had a half decent OL.

I didn't like Locker because there's a base level you have to play at regardless of circumstance. I don't think he met that. Most great NFL QBs will drag the performance of their college team above their historic level.

That's a big red flag with Glennon. I've said all along he was not as good as Wilson running the same offense with some of the same players. Although, it should be mentioned none of the QBs in this year's class meet that requirement.

That's really what it comes down to. Rank the QBs in this year's class. Torrey Smith is a fantastic WR and now a Super Bowl champion. He was the #3 WR in his class and so far, I'd say that's deserving. That was worth a first rounder. Is the #3 QB this year worth a first rounder? I don't know...

FWIW, Locker still went 8th. A lot of people, myself included, thought Flacco was a reach.


Mike Glennon's Senior Stats - 130.7 Rat, 58.5 % Comp, 7.15 YPA, 4031 yrds, 31 TDs, 17 INTs
Mike Glennon's Junior Stats - 136.4 Rat, 62.5 % Comp, 6.74 YPA, 3054 yrds, 31 TDs, 12 INTs
Russell Wilson's Junior Stats - 127.5 Rat, 58.4 % Comp, 6.8 YPA, 3563 yrds, 28 TDs, 14 INTs

Numbers show that Glennon was just as good running the NC State offense as Russell. Now, Russell did have 400 rushing yards and 9 rushing TDs. NC State under Mike last year average 28.1 points a game to Russell Wilson's 31.8 points a game in 2010. Not a huge difference.

Glennon at times looked outstanding this past season. Against Carolina, FSU and Miami were showcase games for him. I agree that he was shaky and at times look real rough. I think his potential fars outweights those moments.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:22 AM    (permalink
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the fact that a QB has more impact than an LT isn't an excuse to reach 20 slots.

Geno Smith is like Brady Quinn. A big name senior who skipped the Senior Bowl who the internet thinks is awesome but who the league has graded out as a late 1 (at best).

meanwhile Joekel is like Joe Thomas. Surefire Pro Bowl player.

Chiefs can be like the Browns. Take Joekel at 1 and trade back into 20 and get Geno.

I have no problem with Geno Smith, but the draft is about value. Taking him at 1 is a giant reach. He's gonna need a ridiculous pro day work out to justify that selection.

People say he takes care of the ball, but 2 dumb safeties on national TV leaves a bad taste in everyone's mouth. This isn't like Vince Young winning the nat champ and the last thing everyone sees is a rose in his mouth. Geno Smith had a tailspin to end the year and there's nothing besides positional scarcity that's propping up his draft value as a supposed top 5 pick.

again i have no problem with this player 15-20 slots later. 1 is just too early.
Even if the argument exists that <fill in the name of a QB here> isn't worth the #1 spot, why is Joeckel a better pick considering the Chiefs' situation? First off, the Chiefs can still re-sign Branden Albert. And if they do, how much sense does drafting Joeckel make? And before anyone says "move Branden Albert to guard"...NO!!! He was already on a local radio station here in KC talking about that very idea just a week or two ago. It ain't happening. He said, in no uncertain terms, that he is NOT moving to guard.

Secondly, even if Joeckel is Joe Thomas and a multi-time pro-bowler, how many times have the Browns been to the playoffs? Or the Phins with Jake Long? Two LTs who some consider the two best in the league. I'm of the opinion that there are 3 (maybe 4) premier positions in football: QB, Pass rusher, left tackle and maybe shutdown corner (if there is such a thing anymore). That said, QB stands above them all. LTs, albeit one of the premier positions, do not have the impact that a QB does. Because we've seen a good number of times where you can have a very good LT and still not be a threat for post season play.

I'm of the opinion that the only way Joeckel makes sense is if Branden Albert is not in KC past March. Otherwise the Chiefs need to go somewhere else with that pick. And if John Dorsey and Andy Reid determine that Geno or Wilson or whoever the QB is in discussion are too big of reaches after it's all said and done, then go somewhere else. Maybe then you start talking about maybe a Star Lotulelei since it's well within the realm of possibility that Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey are playing in another NFL city next season.

This isn't a post about drafting Geno or a QB at #1. It's about drafting what makes the most sense. And right now, assuming Branden Albert's back checks out and he's re-signed, drafting Joeckel doesn't make much sense IMO.
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:31 AM    (permalink
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I don't even think LT is a premiere position anymore. I think it's actually quite overrated.

And honestly, what is the point of having a top 5 LT if you have no QB to protect?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:32 AM    (permalink
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I still think LT is important. I just think it comes after QB. But, there is still much to be determined with who is worth what. Time will tell. I just don't think Joeckel makes much sense if they keep Branden Albert. But, maybe that's just me.

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Old 02-05-2013, 11:06 AM    (permalink
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assuming Branden Albert's back checks out and he's re-signed
is that is a likely outcome? can see Star at 1 too. neither OL or DL are as impact as QB but then again these are legit blue chippers, and can we say the same about Geno? People remember RG3 boosting himself into top pick status with a good combine, but Geno isn't that kind of athlete. So the real question is how is Geno Smith gonna boost his stock to 1? It's gonna have to be some kind of awesome pro day.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:34 AM    (permalink
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I don't even think LT is a premiere position anymore. I think it's actually quite overrated.

And honestly, what is the point of having a top 5 LT if you have no QB to protect?
you're taking Joeckel and you're going to like it!
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:40 AM    (permalink
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Some of you guys were obviously late to the party: RGIII was a top-3 pick by November. I saw people suggesting that he could go #1 as early as October, when he had more TD passes than incompletes. It was never anything serious, just "Oh man, if Luck weren't in this class..." But that water-cooler talk was taking place.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:48 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by scottyboy View Post
you're taking Joeckel and you're going to like it!
Just like the Chiefs were going to take Bryan Bulaga. For some reason people want the Chiefs to take an OT so god damn bad and I don't get it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:51 AM    (permalink
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Just like the Chiefs were going to take Bryan Bulaga. For some reason people want the Chiefs to take an OT so god damn bad and I don't get it.
I think draftniks are just hung up on Albert being a Guard. He always had the talent to play LT at a high level, but he was kicked into Guard because of the talent at Virginia at the time.

A college OG becoming a top-10 LT makes draftniks heads explode. That's not part of the script.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:34 PM    (permalink
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I think draftniks are just hung up on Albert being a Guard. He always had the talent to play LT at a high level, but he was kicked into Guard because of the talent at Virginia at the time.

A college OG becoming a top-10 LT makes draftniks heads explode. That's not part of the script.
It is now, because it has literally happened!
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:07 PM    (permalink
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I heard Geno Smith's interview from the Super Bowl week on NFL Network. Seemed like a very smart and knowledgeable person.
Brady Quinn & Mark Sanchez also were very good in interviews. Charming, some might say.
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The fact that you're comparing Geno Smith to Jamarcus Russell is laughable.
I didn't LOL at it.
The pundits told us in 2007 that Russell was an all-world, special franchise QB. They said he was worthy of the #1 overall pick.
Now we are hearing many pundits say Geno Smith is worthy of being the #1 overall pick.
A #1 overall pick in today's NFL should be Matt Ryan, Joe Flacco, RG3, Andrew Luck, Eli Manning.... Wilson, Kaepernick, etc.... there are too many questions about Geno Smith for him to be a worthy #1 pick.
I'd bet more $ that he's closer to Akili Smith than he is Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, RG3.
So I don't find it laughable that he or anyone makes that comparison.
Do you laugh when every white WR is compared to Wes Welker or Jordy Nelson?
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One of Geno's greatest weaknesses is that he fails to be effective when his first read his gone and he needs to go through his progressions. Geno had an extremely talented group around him and for him to go through considerable struggles in the second half of the season is concerning for a team making a high investment in him. I am in the group that agrees the Chiefs should go quarterback first overall but Geno is not the guy to pull the trigger on.
Spot-on. I didn't see a franchise QB when I watched Geno against decent defenses this season.
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All I'm saying is if ur a team looking for a franchise qb this isn't the year to invest especially at the top of the draft.
Agreed. The Chiefs picked a bad time to suck. The worst. That's why, one of the reasons, I think Andy Reid gets himself Alex Smith from the Niners. Alex>Geno 100%.
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He's going to be an unspectacular, run of the mill bust.
Not quite Akili Smith? More of a Joey Harrington kind of bust?
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Some of you guys were obviously late to the party: RGIII was a top-3 pick by November. I saw people suggesting that he could go #1 as early as October, when he had more TD passes than incompletes. It was never anything serious, just "Oh man, if Luck weren't in this class..." But that water-cooler talk was taking place.
Problem was most people didn't see any Baylor games by then. Even most of the so-called experts in here, didn't watch a Baylor game. They went by highlights, and whatever else they read from others.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:17 PM    (permalink
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I don't even think LT is a premiere position anymore. I think it's actually quite overrated.

And honestly, what is the point of having a top 5 LT if you have no QB to protect?
So are you willing to pay up for for Albert then? Or is that a bad idea too?

If so, I can see it that way too. Splitting the money up to get multiple players or another top player at another more critical position in FA could help you out.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:18 PM    (permalink
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I love this time of year. People can definitively say how good someone is going to be before the scouting process is complete. It's magical.

You should work for an NFL team J-Mike.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:19 PM    (permalink
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So are you willing to pay up for for Albert then? Or is that a bad idea too?

If so, I can see it that way too. Splitting the money up to get multiple players or another top player at another more critical position in FA could help you out.
I want to re-sign Albert long term. You sign your homegrown talent when they've proven to be good at what they do and have proven to be reliable. He has done both.
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Old 02-05-2013, 02:48 PM    (permalink
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I'm slowly warming up to Geno. I just compared him to Ryan Tannehill in the prospect comparison thread, and people might remember I really liked Tannehill last year. But Tannehill had only been playing QB for a year and a half before he graduated, while Geno's been at quarterback his whole career. The fact that they look very similar is what worries me. Physically, they're nearly identical. They've both got great arms. That's something that has increasingly stood out to me the more I watch Geno - he gets plenty of velocity and he's accurate, as well as having the right touch on deep balls. He can nail those outs and comeback routes, which is what popped off the screen at me while I was watching Tannehill. You watch Geno scramble for a TD against Marshall and again you can see Tannehill qualities.

But where I felt like I could make excuses for Tannehill not looking off his primary reads and some footwork issues, it's more troublesome when the guy you're talking about has always been a QB. He looks about the same as Tannehill with having had two more years to polish his game, and you can point to the offense he was running and also that he had a glut of amazing receivers to throw to, as far as why he didn't need to go through route progressions. He's definitely got the physical ability. Athletically and arm-wise, I can make the Tannehill comparison. But Tannehill was pretty new to the position, and Geno isn't. So while the case I was making for Tannehill as a first round pick was as a developmental prospect, I'm just not as gung-ho about a guy who's got twice the collegiate experience but pretty much plays the same way. But I can't knock Geno's raw ability. It's there.
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