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Old 02-05-2013, 12:04 AM    (permalink
bigbenn
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I still stand by my line of thinking that Wilson has just as much if not more potential than Miller. Obviously they are in two different schemes, and Wilson is a DE now. He will blow up soon so we'll revisit that. My line of thinking is the same on Benn as well and he will also blow up as he gets healthy/his coach realizes he can be their best WR(If they don't someone will). Its also funny that you leave out the discussions on Liuget, Jenkins, etc.

As for Hawthorne, that is funny as well. You seem to have the same "different game" syndrome a lot of our fans have. As I said Patton is the only guy who had consistent success on Hawthorne, and I made my thoughts known on that. As for the rest, I think you need to realize those stats don't matter because Hawthorne wasn't manned up with those guys every snap, which was a combo of both scheme design and teams moving players around due to Hawthorne. Check how many times Hawthorne has not only been targeted, but has had a completion thrown on him. I'll save you the time...you won't find many.

Hawthorne is better than Vontae Davis, and Davis will be among the top 5 CB's, if not the best, for a long time. The only reason people haven't heard more about Hawthorne he hasn't had the overall team support of other well known CB's (In addition to the fact that we never saw his electric ability on offense). He is the truth though. A playmaker through and through, plus he is clutch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnTlztdYs_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgU7DYI6v4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK49Vc0wQ_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_BEzqcfdHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPGPd8cviwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lmfnt6dREE

Senior year HS highlights just for kicks (Didn't play CB, was a FS, WR, P and return man...should've easily been a 5 star)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7bjPw7m8o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldSuzXVG5gc

Last edited by bigbenn : 02-05-2013 at 01:00 AM.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:09 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by y.f.s. View Post
1. Xavier Rhodes
2. Jordan Poyer
3. Leon McFadden
4. Robert Alford
5. Dee Milliner
6. Johnthan Banks
7. B.W. Webb
8. Logan Ryan
9. Dez Trufant
10. Tyrann Mathieu
11. Nickell Robey
12. Blidi Wreh-Wilson

I still need to get around to watching Slay, Jamar Taylor, Amerson, Simon, and Robey, but that's how I've got them so far.
Huh? The only question I have with Milliner is long speed but if he runs anything under a 4.5 it's over.

The only flaw in his game is that he doesn't always get his head around, which isn't even that big of a deal. He may be a guy who receivers catch passes on while covered but that's something he can work on and it happens to all DBs in the NFL.

His CB-specific skills and instincts are as good as I've ever seen from a prospect.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:15 AM    (permalink
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Ryan is a good player, not sure he is that of an elite tackler though, good great? Not sure on that...
I've never seen him miss a tackle in 3 years at Rutgers. Srsly. Elite tackler. That's something you can take to the bank with him
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BTW, if it's 3rd and 97... I'm throwing a screen pass to Brian Leonard and he will convert.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:19 AM    (permalink
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elite is thrown around like nothing anymore. Elite should be once or twice every 10 years not 1 or 2 every ten players
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"He won't be able to just use his arm power to throw defenders around at the next level!"

The hell he won't, lol.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:20 AM    (permalink
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Huh? The only question I have with Milliner is long speed but if he runs anything under a 4.5 it's over.

The only flaw in his game is that he doesn't always get his head around, which isn't even that big of a deal. He may be a guy who receivers catch passes on while covered but that's something he can work on and it happens to all DBs in the NFL.

His CB-specific skills and instincts are as good as I've ever seen from a prospect.
Eh, he's not about the tackling life at all, plays mostly bail coverage and just gets to freelance. Ball skills are below average.

I dunno, I just see Kareem Jackson all over again.
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Tannehill was a better QB (than Gabbert) when he was still playing WR

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:32 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by y.f.s. View Post
Eh, he's not about the tackling life at all, plays mostly bail coverage and just gets to freelance. Ball skills are below average.

I dunno, I just see Kareem Jackson all over again.
He's on a whole different level in M2M. And he's more fluid and instinctive. He's a very rich man's Jackson if anything.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:02 PM    (permalink
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DJ Hayden would be a top 10 corner easily if not for his freak accident. If he returns 100% to football someone is going to get an absolute steal on him.
After reading this post I went and read up on him. Somehow I missed his injury. I have seen a few Houston games but was always focused on the offense. Where do you think he might go in the draft? He has good size at 6'0" and 190.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:20 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by bigbenn View Post
I still stand by my line of thinking that Wilson has just as much if not more potential than Miller. Obviously they are in two different schemes, and Wilson is a DE now. He will blow up soon so we'll revisit that. My line of thinking is the same on Benn as well and he will also blow up as he gets healthy/his coach realizes he can be their best WR(If they don't someone will). Its also funny that you leave out the discussions on Liuget, Jenkins, etc.

As for Hawthorne, that is funny as well. You seem to have the same "different game" syndrome a lot of our fans have. As I said Patton is the only guy who had consistent success on Hawthorne, and I made my thoughts known on that. As for the rest, I think you need to realize those stats don't matter because Hawthorne wasn't manned up with those guys every snap, which was a combo of both scheme design and teams moving players around due to Hawthorne. Check how many times Hawthorne has not only been targeted, but has had a completion thrown on him. I'll save you the time...you won't find many.

Hawthorne is better than Vontae Davis, and Davis will be among the top 5 CB's, if not the best, for a long time. The only reason people haven't heard more about Hawthorne he hasn't had the overall team support of other well known CB's (In addition to the fact that we never saw his electric ability on offense). He is the truth though. A playmaker through and through, plus he is clutch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnTlztdYs_8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgU7DYI6v4Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK49Vc0wQ_o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_BEzqcfdHo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPGPd8cviwM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Lmfnt6dREE

Senior year HS highlights just for kicks (Didn't play CB, was a FS, WR, P and return man...should've easily been a 5 star)...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NX7bjPw7m8o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldSuzXVG5gc
It seems pretty clear that you have some tunnel vision and are somewhat stuck in your own little world of Illinois football. To suggest that Vontae Davis is a top 5 corner, "if not the best" is absolutely absurd. He has never even made a Pro Bowl. To then turn around and say that Hawthorne is better than the guy that you think is a top 5 corner in the league is even more ridiculous. Hawthorne isn't even in the conversation as the top CB prospect in this draft. Don't get me wrong; he's a decent player and may very well have a nice career in the NFL. But he hasn't done squat yet to deserve all that.
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Old 02-06-2013, 12:38 PM    (permalink
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After reading this post I went and read up on him. Somehow I missed his injury. I have seen a few Houston games but was always focused on the offense. Where do you think he might go in the draft? He has good size at 6'0" and 190.
Hayden is a guy I need to focus some time on once I get my initial batch of rankings posted. He seems to be in the late round range right now, but it appears to be in large part to the uncertainty surrounding recovery from an injury of that nature. The combine will tell us a lot about Hayden's physical state.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:58 PM    (permalink
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It seems pretty clear that you have some tunnel vision and are somewhat stuck in your own little world of Illinois football. To suggest that Vontae Davis is a top 5 corner, "if not the best" is absolutely absurd. He has never even made a Pro Bowl. To then turn around and say that Hawthorne is better than the guy that you think is a top 5 corner in the league is even more ridiculous. Hawthorne isn't even in the conversation as the top CB prospect in this draft. Don't get me wrong; he's a decent player and may very well have a nice career in the NFL. But he hasn't done squat yet to deserve all that.
We'll see. I think Davis has clearly been a top CB the majorty of his NFL career so far. He's one of those guys who can truly dominate his position for a long time. How much is up to him. As for Hawthorne, I was saying he is a better CB than Davis coming out of college (Davis did come out a year earlier so that's to be expected). It's my opinion that there isn't a CB better in this draft. People have Milliner at the top of their boards and Hawthorne is better IMO. Whether that gets noticed before or after the draft, we'll see.

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Old 02-07-2013, 12:26 AM    (permalink
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Hawthorne isn't better than Vontae Davis; get the **** out of here with that. Did you go to U of I? Because if not, switch to Alabama or something, so you don't sound like an idiot when hyping their prospects. If every Illini prospect was the best in the draft at his position, the team wouldn't be so pathetic.

In Hawthorne's defense, he's one of the few Illini prospects I've met that doesn't appear to be a total idiot. But still.....get the **** out of here with that.
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Old 02-07-2013, 03:51 AM    (permalink
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Hawthorne isn't better than Vontae Davis; get the **** out of here with that. Did you go to U of I? Because if not, switch to Alabama or something, so you don't sound like an idiot when hyping their prospects. If every Illini prospect was the best in the draft at his position, the team wouldn't be so pathetic.

In Hawthorne's defense, he's one of the few Illini prospects I've met that doesn't appear to be a total idiot. But still.....get the **** out of here with that.
Once again my opinion. I've seen just about every game of both as Illini. Also I hype them not only because its deserved, but true. I never said anything like every Illini prospect is the best at their position...words in my mouth. They do have a couple though (Same as it has been the past few years). It is definitely possible to have very good top half talent and be a bad team...anybody who knows football, knows this. As always we'll see. If people have Milliner at the top there is no reason Hawthorne shouldn't be there.
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Old 02-08-2013, 04:52 AM    (permalink
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Once again my opinion. I've seen just about every game of both as Illini. Also I hype them not only because its deserved, but true. I never said anything like every Illini prospect is the best at their position...words in my mouth. They do have a couple though (Same as it has been the past few years). It is definitely possible to have very good top half talent and be a bad team...anybody who knows football, knows this. As always we'll see. If people have Milliner at the top there is no reason Hawthorne shouldn't be there.
You just said Vontae Davis might be the best corner in the NFL, and you said Hawthorne is better than him. You said Martez Wilson is better than Von Miller, apparently. I recall you referring to Martez as a good student, with no actual evidence, and then whining when I posted about my observations of him in an actual classroom. God only knows what you thought about Rejus. You sound ridiculous.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:35 AM    (permalink
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You just said Vontae Davis might be the best corner in the NFL, and you said Hawthorne is better than him. You said Martez Wilson is better than Von Miller, apparently. I recall you referring to Martez as a good student, with no actual evidence, and then whining when I posted about my observations of him in an actual classroom. God only knows what you thought about Rejus. You sound ridiculous.
He did say that Martez was better coming into the draft than Von, and after they were drafted that he would be better. He also has said Justin Green is a 2nd rounder, with a chance to go in the first. Yes, he thinks both CBs from this past year are potentially 1st rounders. He has also said that Benn will be one of the top WRs in the NFL for a long time, but now says he isn't just because Tampa Bay doesn't use him correctly/they suck.

I don't want to derail this thread, because that's not what it's about. The fact of it is Hawthorne is a very talented player on paper and with regards to his measurables. Everyone in the world except for Kid recognizes that his issues have been staying healthy and consistency. I absolutely would love Hawthorne on the Bears, whether he sticks at CB or has to move to S. I think he has a chance to be a steal in the draft, and will probably look really great at the combine and in workouts which may boost his stock. Does he have a chance to go late 1st? Absolutely, but he will need incredibly impressive workouts. Right now, someone will probably take him in the 3rd/4th round.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:18 PM    (permalink
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Yeah, I'm not arguing against Hawthorne as a prospect. He's talented. Just arguing with Benn saying idiotic things about semi-prospects from a football program that should embarrass him more than anything else. Also, Supo Sanni > Justin Green. Both are basically undraftable, but I kind of like Sanni's potential.
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