New York Giants Discussion

[Forenci]

The commentary on that ESPN list is god awful. Marvin Austin would get more snap if he didn't suck dong.

Also, a few MINOR things I'd like to look into this off-season. Not really important or critical but I'd like to see it.

A new kicker. I love Tynes and will always have a ton of love for him but not having a kicker who can't at least give you a CHANCE at a 50+ yard field goal is brutal in the NFL. There are just times we're you're going to need that. Draft a kicker later, pick up an UDFA or sign a free agent. Don't really care.

A new back up QB. Carr sucks. Obviously, like 95% of the back ups in the NFL if their starting QB is good and they go down well they're screwed. But that's not the point of having a good back up. Knock on wood, but if Eli ever got hurt for a few games I'd at least like to have someone who gives an opportunity to win.

[Rosebud]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

Marvin Austin, it's time to put your big boy pants on.

Marvin Austin sold his big boy pants while he was kingpinning it up at UNC.

[Wootylicous]

Trade for Shaun Hill already.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

Don't get me wrong, I would like to see OL addressed as well, I really want a dominant Oline.

We need to groom replacements for Snee and Bass. Brewer may or may not be the guy at RT.

Defensively

We need to groom a replacement for Tuck at LDE, we need a starting DT.

We likely need one or two starters at LB

We need a starting CB accross from Amukamara (can Webster rebound?)

We have Kiwi, JPP, Ojomo, and not sure if Tracy is a DE or not. DT we need I agree with that. Austin and Kuhn need to step up or just cut them and allow other guys to take their place. LBs we have been developing so I'd like to see JW, Mark H, and Paysinger try to play. Also, draft some too, and see what happens.

Webster is an interesting case. Over paid for what he did this past season. Everything else I think is hurt. So we will need to get some more CBs. So yeah defensive needs players, but they seem to be china dolls on that side of the ball. Injury prone players across the board there playing in a garbage scheme! So that bothers me a lot.

[Big_Pete]

I think some of our injury problems come back to veterans with a lot of wear and tear.

Having said that, I think we move towards players who have been able to stay healthy.

I am not sure whats happening with Kiwi yet, but we do have Trattou, Tracy and Ojomo. The door is still being left open for Osi although I see that as unlikely.

I also think Rolle is overpaid as well, he could be a candidate to restructure.

Webster is overpaid, but currently we don't have anyone behind him. Hosley is pretty much a nickle back and Thomas is likely done. If we cut Webster (who turns 31 this season), CB becomes a substantial need.

In the end I expect we will cut webster, there may be a chance we resign him as a cheap vet like we did with Madison and McQuarters, but is current deal is not realistic given the current salary cap.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Does Scott make the roster again and if he does do people think he can be a productive # 3 guy in the rotation?

[Malaka]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Does Scott make the roster again and if he does do people think he can be a productive # 3 guy in the rotation?

That's a tough call, I haven't really seen much of him. If we draft an RB early (before the 6th round lets say) the answer is probably no, at least in the staff's opinion. Either way I'd like to bring in some camp bodies later on to see if he can stand out amongst them.

As for Webster, I think it is telling that he wasn't cut with the rest of the veterans. No doubt JR, is trying to restructure a deal with the man.

[Big_Pete]

The Giants spent $68.8 million (57 percent) of their 2012 salary cap on defense (2nd highest in NFL), conversely we spent $48.7 million on offense (24th in NFL)

Here are the larger contract remaining on the team:

2013 cap numbers from http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

Eli Manning: $20,850,000 cap number (13,000,000 salary, 2,600,000 signing bonus, 5,250,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Corey Webster: $9,975,000 cap number (7,000,000 salary, 875,000 signing bonus, 2,100,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Antrel Rolle: $9,250,000 cap number (7,000,000 salary, 2,000,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2014

Chris Snee: $9,000,000 cap number (6,700,000 salary, 2,250,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2014

David Diehl: $7,825,000 cap number (4,475,000 salary, 3,000,000 signing bonus, 350,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

David Baas: $6,725,000 cap number (4,250,000 salary, 2,225,000 signing bonus, 250,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Justin Tuck: $5,650,000 cap number (4,000,000 salary, 1,500,000 signing bonus, 150,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Mathias Kiwanuka: $5,125,000 cap number (2,950,000 salary, 2,125,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Hakeem Nicks: $3,755,000 (2,725,000 salary, 500,000 signing bonus, 530,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Terrell Thomas: $3,000,000 (750,000 salary, 250,000 signing bonus, 2,000,000 other bonus) - end year 2015* (2013 option)

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by Big_Pete

2013 cap numbers from http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-york-giants/cap-hit/

Eli Manning: $20,850,000 cap number (13,000,000 salary, 2,600,000 signing bonus, 5,250,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Corey Webster: $9,975,000 cap number (7,000,000 salary, 875,000 signing bonus, 2,100,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Antrel Rolle: $9,250,000 cap number (7,000,000 salary, 2,000,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2014

Chris Snee: $9,000,000 cap number (6,700,000 salary, 2,250,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2014

David Diehl: $7,825,000 cap number (4,475,000 salary, 3,000,000 signing bonus, 350,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

David Baas: $6,725,000 cap number (4,250,000 salary, 2,225,000 signing bonus, 250,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Justin Tuck: $5,650,000 cap number (4,000,000 salary, 1,500,000 signing bonus, 150,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Mathias Kiwanuka: $5,125,000 cap number (2,950,000 salary, 2,125,000 signing bonus, 50,000 other bonus) - end year 2015

Hakeem Nicks: $3,755,000 (2,725,000 salary, 500,000 signing bonus, 530,000 other bonus) - end year 2013

Terrell Thomas: $3,000,000 (750,000 salary, 250,000 signing bonus, 2,000,000 other bonus) - end year 2015* (2013 option)

According to these numbers here is the cap savings if we cut these players


Corey Webster: $9,100,000

Antrel Rolle: $5,000,000

David Diehl: $4,825,000

Justin Tuck: $4,150,000

Terrell Thomas: $3,000,000

Based on these numbers I think we cut Webster and Diehl and not use the option on Thomas, which will give us and additional $16,926,000 in cap room

considering we are reportedly $8.6m under the cap, this would give us around $25.5m to work with this offseason.


Note: While Manning, Rolle, Snee and Baas are not viable options to cut, we may try and rework their deals.

[gpngc]

You guys should make a Bradshaw appreciation thread. He was integral on two championship teams and was on many occasions the toughest guy on the field. I loved watching him play.

Goodbye and good luck Bradshaw! Thanks for everything!

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by Malaka

That's a tough call, I haven't really seen much of him. If we draft an RB early (before the 6th round lets say) the answer is probably no, at least in the staff's opinion. Either way I'd like to bring in some camp bodies later on to see if he can stand out amongst them.

As for Webster, I think it is telling that he wasn't cut with the rest of the veterans. No doubt JR, is trying to restructure a deal with the man.

I want to see what Scott and that speed can do. I think Wilson and Scott can provide the big plays and Brown can wear teams down. If we bring in undrafted FA and see what they can do, I think we can be ok. But I am really curious to see how Scott can do now.

[scottyboy]

Christ, after seeing those numbers, DD and C-web either are getting the axe or getting re-worked. I'd like to keep Webster around for another year.

Hell, Snee's contract is absurd. It'll be nice to have Tuck's coming off the books next year though

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

Christ, after seeing those numbers, DD and C-web either are getting the axe or getting re-worked. I'd like to keep Webster around for another year.

Hell, Snee's contract is absurd. It'll be nice to have Tuck's coming off the books next year though

The way I see it now, if we cut Diehl, Webster and Thomas and get around $25.5m to work with, I could see it breaking down something like:


$5m to resign William Beatty

$4m to resign Martellus Bennett

$4m to sign veteran LB

$3.5m to resign Nicks (in addition to his current $3.755m cap number)

$3m to resign Victor Cruz (1st round RFA tender)

$2m to resign Stevie Brown (2nd round RFA tender)

$2m to sign veteran DT

$2m to sign veteran CB


So we would need to rework some of the larger contracts (Manning, Snee, Baas, Rolle) to have enough cap room for rookies and cheap free agents.

[Big_Pete]

If we went along those signings, our roster could be something like this heading into the draft:

QB: Manning, Painter

RB: Wilson, Brown, Scott, Torain

FB: Hynoksi

TE: Bennett, Pascoe, Robinson, Donnell

WR: Nicks, Cruz, Randle, Hixon, Jernigan, DePalma, Collins, Hardy

T: Beatty, Brewer, Mosely, Capers, McCants, Adcock

G: Snee, Goodin, DeGeare, Browning

C: Baas, Cordle

DE: Tuck, Pierre-Paul, Kiwanuka, Tracy, Trattou, Ojomo, Broha

DT: Joseph, Vet, Kuhn, Austin, Parker, Jasper, Skinner,

LB: Vet, Williams, Herzlich, Paysinger, Muasau

CB: Amukamara, Vet, Hosely, McBride, Caldwell, Frederick, Scott

S: Rolle, Brown, Hill, Sash, Nicholas

K: ?

P: Weatherford

LS: DeOssie



That gives me a pretty clear idea of our potential draft needs

[BigBlueNorwegian]

Wow, those salary cap numbers just underlines the dire need to do this rebuild now. I mean, a lot of those players earning top dollar on our team didn't even perform close to their contracts last year.

The only guys I think totally deserve their high salaries are Eli, Nicks and to a certain extent Rolle and Baas. Everyone else have salary cap numbers multiple millions over their actual contribution to the team last year.

Glad we're doing this spring cleaning now, even though it hurts to get rid of players who were integral parts to our SB victories.

[scottyboy]

we re-signed Bear Pascoe. Can you say championship?

[Forenci]

Originally Posted by scottyboy

we re-signed Bear Pascoe. Can you say championship?

Only if we re-sign Blackburn and find out what Dave Tollefson is doing with his life.

[Giantsfan1080]

I think he was with Oakland all of last year.

[Big_Pete]

Originally Posted by BigBlueNorwegian

Wow, those salary cap numbers just underlines the dire need to do this rebuild now. I mean, a lot of those players earning top dollar on our team didn't even perform close to their contracts last year.

The only guys I think totally deserve their high salaries are Eli, Nicks and to a certain extent Rolle and Baas. Everyone else have salary cap numbers multiple millions over their actual contribution to the team last year.

Glad we're doing this spring cleaning now, even though it hurts to get rid of players who were integral parts to our SB victories.

To be fair to Reese and co, they probably expected the cap would likely keep I creasing each year and all these contracts were done well before the new CBA.

We have generally done well with keeping our core guys together.
There is a little turnover this year with a few guys cut/departing but you are probably looking at 5 to 8 notable players. If we can resign most of our key free agents, bring in a couple to fill gaps and a good draft and we are quite strong.

[bigbluedefense]

I think we need to do a lot more gutting after looking at some of those salaries.

Snee is absolutely overpaid. He better restructure or get cut, bc 9 mill for him is more absurd than 9 mill for CWeb.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Do we have the balls to cut Snee? I mean does the whole son-in-law thing factor in?

We have a DD, Snee, Rolle, Tuck and Webster.

[bigbluedefense]

We probably don't. But we should either restructure him or cut him. Think about it, at that salary, we could sign a guy like Andy Levitre or something.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

We probably don't. But we should either restructure him or cut him. Think about it, at that salary, we could sign a guy like Andy Levitre or something.

Oh I agree, I just think that's a different territory, and since we are a class franchise I think Snee gets saved. Also, I do like the idea of drafting Marcus Lattimore from SC at RB in the mid rounds, and let him heal frm his injury. He can come back the following year and by then we will know what we have in Wilson. I think that would be a great investment for us.

[bigbluedefense]

Lattimore is a guy I consider in round 6 and beyond. Round 5 at earliest. There's too many good RBs out there to fall in love with a damaged one.

There are a lot of OTs on the market this year in free agency. It will be interesting to see how we approach that.

We typically either draft projects or sign guys in FA to the OL. That's been our MO. Then we draft defense.

[BigBlueNorwegian]

Originally Posted by NY+Giants=NYG

Do we have the balls to cut Snee? I mean does the whole son-in-law thing factor in?

We have a DD, Snee, Rolle, Tuck and Webster.

Yup, These guys need to restructure or gtfo.

-DD should be gone anyways, really.

-Snee need to get his salary cut in half. Sorry Coughlin, you have to tell your daughter she can't go on wild shopping sprees on 5th avenue any more.

-Rolle should reduce his salary as well. He has performed okay, but that cap number is too big.

- Tuck, you should be cut for moping around. We cut the warrior Bradshaw, so there's no possible way your moping, whiny ass can stay with that salary.

-Webster, reduce your salary or find a new club. We can find a vet CB to get burned by the oppositions no.1 on the FA market for a lot less money than what you're making.