2013 HOF Class Prediction/Discussion Thread

[Ness]

I'll just say that there was one team in the 1980's that really screwed over the 49ers dynasty constantly and that was the Giants from the time Parcells took over the team. That playoff loss against the Giants in 1990 is still regarded as the most painful defeat in franchise history.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by Ness

I'll just say that there was one team in the 1980's that really screwed over the 49ers dynasty constantly and that was the Giants from the time Parcells took over the team. That playoff loss against the Giants in 1990 is still regarded as the most painful defeat in franchise history.

The Giants and 49ers used to have wars. That was a great era of football.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

how many times did the Giants lose to a team that went on to win the SB???

Twice. No matter how many times you use punctuation marks, that's really not that big of a deal.

How many times did Lovie Smith lose to a team that went on to win the Superbowl??? Oh my god it was twice!! Lovie Smith should be in the HOF!!!

[bigbluedefense]

You have an anti NY bias bf. it's pretty obvious.

[Caddy]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Twice. No matter how many times you use punctuation marks, that's really not that big of a deal.

How many times did Lovie Smith lose to a team that went on to win the Superbowl??? Oh my god it was twice!! Lovie Smith should be in the HOF!!!

Your clever use of exclamation points has me convinced.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

You have an anti NY bias bf. it's pretty obvious.

Who did I say should have gotten in instead of Bill Parcells? (Hint: It's another Giant).

I have an anti-SEC bias, but I have no biases in pro sports. It's just a bunch of rich old guys charging me 40 bucks for parking. Not nearly worth developing a strong sense of loyalty.

[bigbluedefense]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Who did I say should have gotten in instead of Bill Parcells? (Hint: It's another Giant).

I have an anti-SEC bias, but I have no biases in pro sports. It's just a bunch of rich old guys charging me 40 bucks for parking. Not nearly worth developing a strong sense of loyalty.

As if the NCAA is any different....

[WCH]

Thinking about three of the four coaches who made the HOF from the 80s, are Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren, and Mike Shanahan in play for the Hall? I'm pretty sure I'd vote for none of them.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

As if the NCAA is any different....

Well, I work in academia, so it helps to pay my bills. :)

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by bearsfan_51

Twice. No matter how many times you use punctuation marks, that's really not that big of a deal.

How many times did Lovie Smith lose to a team that went on to win the Superbowl??? Oh my god it was twice!! Lovie Smith should be in the HOF!!!

Are you saying Parcells isn't a HOF HC and doesn't deserve to be in Canton?

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by WCH

Thinking about three of the four coaches who made the HOF from the 80s, are Jimmy Johnson, Mike Holmgren, and Mike Shanahan in play for the Hall? I'm pretty sure I'd vote for none of them.

No, I wouldn't either. I really like Jimmy Johnson, but any chance he did have is going to be hurt for a while by those ***** extender ads (seriously dude, you don't have enough money already?). That said, he took an absolutely awful team and won two Superbowls in five years. It's a shame he had beef with Jerry Jones, because I think he could have won at least 2 more.

Holmgren and Shannahan had Favre and Elway. Great coaches, and I'm not sure either franchise wins a Superbowl without them, but I'd say no.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Are you saying Parcells isn't a HOF HC and doesn't deserve to be in Canton?

Yes, that's what I'm saying. There are currently 26 coaches in the HOF. I'd probably vote for 5-6 of them

Two locks:
-Bill Walsh
-Vince Lombardi

Three probably:
-Paul Brown
-Chuck Noll
-Joe Gibbs

Add George Halas and Curly Lambeau as founders/coaches for a total of 7.

I might put Don Shula and Tom Landry on there because it's hard to leave the 1st and 3rd most winning coaches of all time, but they also choked a ton in the playoffs, so probably not.

Parcells certainly isn't the least deserving coach, but I just don't think he's in that upper echelon.

[bigbluedefense]

Parcells is a God.

[NY+Giants=NYG]

I am mad Strahan didn't get in. Actually, surprised as well. He was dominant until he retired. His last game was the SB, and he played well, and went on top. I am very surprised he wasn't able to get in.

[Smooth Criminal]

I was suprised Strahan didn't get in. Bettis doesn't deserve it, but I still feel bad for him. After this I don't see him getting in, and hes a great guy. He wasn't considered the best RB in the league and he didn't do anything flashy, but he definied this team for a decade.

But in the end id rather see players like him not make the hall. Too many players get in already.

[BigBanger]

I think Pacells is a great coach, but I'm indifferent about him making it in. I think Strahan was much more deserving.

He's been credited as a rebuilder of organizations, which is true to an extent, but he never really stuck around to match his accomplishments from the Giants. He threw his bitchfit about Terry Glenn and referred to him as "she" and then, basically, quit right after they went to a Super Bowl (with a great rookie season from Glenn no less), because Robert Kraft overruled him and said the Patriots were drafting Glenn when he (Parcells) didn't want to.

He went on to make one of his more infamous quotes about buying the groceries, so he was able to spin it in his own way that made sense (and made people laugh), but it just seemed arbitrary, especially when Glenn was a good player (with great promise) and was crucial to the team success that year (more so than whoever he was going to draft instead of him). He went to the Jets and Cowboys for short stints and did nothing noteworthy. Then he went to Miami and completely ****** that franchise up by drafting Jake Long over Matt Ryan.

I was critical of that decision, despite believing that Long was the superior prospect (which he undoubtedly was). I felt like the game was slowly passing Parcells by before that, and this decision just further cemented by feelings. He tried to win with smash mouth, run dominant football (with average, marginally talented QBs) and elite defense. QB play started becoming more and more critical to team success during the mid to late 90s. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are the only two undeserving QBs to win a Super Bowl since early 90s. There was a growing trend that teams could no longer win by carrying below average QB play (by running the ball and having a great defense). The decision to pass on Matt Ryan was costly. And he never seemed to value the importance of the QB position. He always seemed to just want a QB that wasn't going to make mistakes.

And of course, after, what, three season? He quit the Dolphins as well. To go along with being a two time Super Bowl champion, I also view Parcells as a quote machine and a quitter. He got exactly what he wanted in Miami. The chance to run a team and make every move to build the team he wanted. He had instant success (compared to where they were), but then stepped down after a few years of mediocrity, and a team that was quickly back on the decline.

Is he a great football mind? I don't think anyone can really deny that, but there's something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. I have no tolerance for quitters. He seemed like one in the second half of his coaching career. He was just very articulate and had the ability to make it sound like someone else was preventing him from being a genius.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by Smooth Criminal

I was suprised Strahan didn't get in. Bettis doesn't deserve it, but I still feel bad for him. After this I don't see him getting in, and hes a great guy. He wasn't considered the best RB in the league and he didn't do anything flashy, but he definied this team for a decade.

But in the end id rather see players like him not make the hall. Too many players get in already.

Bettis is getting in. He's just not a first ballot guy. There are more deserving candidates at other crowded positions that are going to push Bettis down on the wait list, but he's going to get in.

IMO his numbers are too strong to keep him out forever.

[MetSox17]

Parcells didn't do much in his stint in Dallas, and he had some pretty terrible drafts here.

And for the record, Demarcus Ware was 100% Jerry's pick, not Parcells'. Bill wanted Marcus Spears at 11 and didn't get Jerry's approval, and Bill preferred Merriman over Ware.

[FUNBUNCHER]

Originally Posted by MetSox17

Parcells didn't do much in his stint in Dallas, and he had some pretty terrible drafts here.

And for the record, Demarcus Ware was 100% Jerry's pick, not Parcells'. Bill wanted Marcus Spears at 11 and didn't get Jerry's approval, and Bill preferred Merriman over Ware.

Demarcus Ware was Parcells pick. He even went on the air after the draft explaining why Ware was a better pick than Shawne Merriman. Parcells even said that Merriman looked stiff coming off the LOS compared to Ware who according to Parcells was a more fluid athlete. Stop making **** up.

Contrary to popular belief, Jerruh was more hand's off under the Parcells regime than he's been with any other HC besides Jimmy Johnson.

Parcells was the guy who promoted UDFA Tony Romo to starter. Last time I looked the guy was still the starter for the Cowboys.

It's insane to believe that Parcells would let Jerruh set his draft board.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Demarcus Ware was Parcells pick. He even went on the air after the draft explaining why Ware was a better pick than Shawne Merriman. Parcells even said that Merriman looked stiff coming off the LOS compared to Ware who according to Parcells was a more fluid athlete. Stop making **** up.

Contrary to popular belief, Jerruh was more hand's off under the Parcells regime than he's been with any other HC besides Jimmy Johnson.

Parcells was the guy who promoted UDFA Tony Romo to starter. Last time I looked the guy was still the starter for the Cowboys.

It's insane to believe that Parcells would let Jerruh set his draft board.

The only thing I ever heard about Parcells and Jerry was that Jerry wanted Newman that first draft and Parcells wanted Kevin Williams.

[Jughead10]

Originally Posted by BigBanger

I think Pacells is a great coach, but I'm indifferent about him making it in. I think Strahan was much more deserving.

He's been credited as a rebuilder of organizations, which is true to an extent, but he never really stuck around to match his accomplishments from the Giants. He threw his bitchfit about Terry Glenn and referred to him as "she" and then, basically, quit right after they went to a Super Bowl (with a great rookie season from Glenn no less), because Robert Kraft overruled him and said the Patriots were drafting Glenn when he (Parcells) didn't want to.

He went on to make one of his more infamous quotes about buying the groceries, so he was able to spin it in his own way that made sense (and made people laugh), but it just seemed arbitrary, especially when Glenn was a good player (with great promise) and was crucial to the team success that year (more so than whoever he was going to draft instead of him). He went to the Jets and Cowboys for short stints and did nothing noteworthy. Then he went to Miami and completely ****** that franchise up by drafting Jake Long over Matt Ryan.

I was critical of that decision, despite believing that Long was the superior prospect (which he undoubtedly was). I felt like the game was slowly passing Parcells by before that, and this decision just further cemented by feelings. He tried to win with smash mouth, run dominant football (with average, marginally talented QBs) and elite defense. QB play started becoming more and more critical to team success during the mid to late 90s. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are the only two undeserving QBs to win a Super Bowl since early 90s. There was a growing trend that teams could no longer win by carrying below average QB play (by running the ball and having a great defense). The decision to pass on Matt Ryan was costly. And he never seemed to value the importance of the QB position. He always seemed to just want a QB that wasn't going to make mistakes.

And of course, after, what, three season? He quit the Dolphins as well. To go along with being a two time Super Bowl champion, I also view Parcells as a quote machine and a quitter. He got exactly what he wanted in Miami. The chance to run a team and make every move to build the team he wanted. He had instant success (compared to where they were), but then stepped down after after a few years of mediocrity, and a team that was quickly back on the decline.

Is he a great football mind? I don't think anyone can really deny that, but there's something about him that just rubs me the wrong way. I have no tolerance for quitters. He seemed like one in second half of his coaching career to me. He was just very articulate and had the ability to make it sound like someone else was preventing him from being a genius.

Parcells definitely left the Jets and Cowboys is MUCH better shape for those who took over after him. The Jets were a legitimate Super Bowl contender in 98 when the Broncos beat the Falcons. And his 2000 draft with the Jets set that team up for several years. There are 19 players all time with over 110 sacks. Bill has drafted/coached 3 of them.

[JordanTaber]

Parcells is really good with special teams, at least. I think the game just passed him by when he got to Dallas. It's a shootout league now.

[Trogdor]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

Demarcus Ware was Parcells pick. He even went on the air after the draft explaining why Ware was a better pick than Shawne Merriman. Parcells even said that Merriman looked stiff coming off the LOS compared to Ware who according to Parcells was a more fluid athlete. Stop making **** up.

Contrary to popular belief, Jerruh was more hand's off under the Parcells regime than he's been with any other HC besides Jimmy Johnson.

Parcells was the guy who promoted UDFA Tony Romo to starter. Last time I looked the guy was still the starter for the Cowboys.

It's insane to believe that Parcells would let Jerruh set his draft board.

... I'm not sure how you credit Parcells with Ware without clarifying that Bill wanted to pass on him for Marcus freaking Spears. DeMarcus Ware was a scouting staff pick (Jerry will always side with scouts over staff in the war room) to the point where the scout was standing on the table in order to get his voice over Bill Parcells.

Parcells wanted Spears and said he was the key piece to running the 3-4. Depending on the media outlet as far as Merriman vs Ware though. If Bill would have gotten his way in the war room and Dallas ended up with Spears + ? instead of Ware the franchise would have been even worse off than it was. He was not a draft guru grading him off his drafts with Dallas. Not even close.

Stop giving him credit for Romo. That was 100% Sean Payton. Parcells traded for and championed the hell out of a former baseball player named Drew Henson. If Quincy Carter wasn't a drug addict Tony Romo would of been cut at Payton's behest long before finally getting his shot.

Bill Parcells deserves to be in the HOF but if judging him on what he accomplished in Dallas he would be lucky to sniff the Hall of Good.

[FUNBUNCHER]

I don't wanna get into a pissing match about who Parcells really wanted in the 2005 draft, but IMO there's no way he wanted Spears over Ware or Merriman.
Spears wasn't a pass rusher, he was a solid prospect and a fit for the 34 D, be he wasn't an impact player behind the LOS.

Parcells values pass rushers on defense almost above any other position on that unit.
Also Parcells is known not to be quite honest to the media about his true draft intentions. If he floated names like Marcus Spears and Shawne Merriman as his preferred selections at pick #11, you can bet that's NOT who he wanted.

Parcells compared Ware to LT when he was drafted. IMO that's not something you do when your owner is making you take a guy you didn't want.

Jerry Jones didn't have final say in Parcells' draft war room. That wasn't how they set it up, and it probably was part of the reason Parcells left.

[bearsfan_51]

Originally Posted by FUNBUNCHER

I don't wanna get into a pissing match about who Parcells really wanted in the 2005 draft, but IMO there's no way he wanted Spears over Ware or Merriman.

???

Well, if that's your opinion....