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Old 02-06-2013, 08:19 PM    (permalink
thule
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I just want to know why we should draft a DT in the first round when we have enough ample players at that position already. I know you shouldn't draft based on need but I really think it would be a waste. We have ratliff, lissamore, crawford, hatcher, spears.

I personally think we should draft best DE available or best OG available. I only say DE because there's a good chance spencer won't return.
-Ratliff isn't a lock to be on the opening day roster.
-Lissemore will have a shot at starting as a 1 tech...but he could also fill in as a utility DL
-Crawford is being projected as a LDE who can kick inside in the nickle
-Hatcher also could play LDE/3tech/inside nickle rusher.
-Spears could be cut...he's nothing more than a backup NT on a 4 man line to me at this point.

I'm with you on Spencer not coming back. I just don't think it makes a ton of sense to pay a player who's nickname was "Almost".

That said in Monte's scheme you must generate pressure. We've generated pressure from the outside the past 2-3 years and we are in the same spot. Why not draft the top 3 tech in the draft so that you have an interior presence that can force a double team. I have no problems drafting a Datone Jones...but when you look at the measureables are you really getting something that different from Crawford?
Crawford - 6'4 285
Jones - 6'4 280

Now if you have Jarvis Jones or any other of the tweeners pegged to come play LDE for us great. But it is not the position that simone rice played. We already have that player in Ware. We need someone who can hold at the point of attack and generate pressure if possible. So while LDE is a need if we don't resign spencer you have to ask yourself. What is more important to our scheme and who do we have in each position that can play them. We have a few guys on the roster that can play the 3-tech but we don't have any impact players right now.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:39 PM    (permalink
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I agree. If Floyd is there at 18 its a no brainer IMO
Oh yeah? When did you start to feel that way and what sold you?
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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Oh yeah? When did you start to feel that way and what sold you?
Well I dont pretend to be a scout but the people I follow and respect love him so Im really just echoing their opinions.

Bryan Broaddus

Sharrif Floyd, DT, (6-3, 301), Florida
Could play him at tackle or end, both in this Gators scheme….square player…gets up the field…nice quickness when used in the twist stunt…stays active, does not stop….fights off the block…can retrace steps when he gets up the field and the ball comes back inside….showed nice power by throwing Texas A&M tackle Luke Joeckel off balance on a pass rush…will fight the double team block…very mobile to chase….runs plays down from backside…good pass rush moves…quick arm over…active with his hands….can be trouble for blockers when he is on the move…can push the pocket from the inside…played well against outstanding competition….type of player that never comes off the field.

I dont study film or anything but just from reading up on him and seeing where hes going in some mocks, sounds like a guy that would be a good addition. What are your concerns about him?
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:20 PM    (permalink
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-Ratliff isn't a lock to be on the opening day roster.
-Lissemore will have a shot at starting as a 1 tech...but he could also fill in as a utility DL
-Crawford is being projected as a LDE who can kick inside in the nickle
-Hatcher also could play LDE/3tech/inside nickle rusher.
-Spears could be cut...he's nothing more than a backup NT on a 4 man line to me at this point.

Now if you have Jarvis Jones or any other of the tweeners pegged to come play LDE for us great. But it is not the position that simone rice played. We already have that player in Ware. We need someone who can hold at the point of attack and generate pressure if possible. So while LDE is a need if we don't resign spencer you have to ask yourself. What is more important to our scheme and who do we have in each position that can play them. We have a few guys on the roster that can play the 3-tech but we don't have any impact players right now.

I understand what you are saying but I think it would be really stupid to not bring ratliff back (would probably have to reconstruct contract). And I agree ware will play the same position as simeon rice. But if you look at the rest of the d-line on that 2002 bucs team the LDE was greg spires and he was 6'1" and only weighing 265 lb's. So hatcher and crawford (if he puts on 10 lb's, which he could) would not fit at the DE position IMO. I think we should go o-line round 1 and draft Brandon Jenkins the DE from Florida St. in the second round.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:42 PM    (permalink
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Well I dont pretend to be a scout but the people I follow and respect love him so Im really just echoing their opinions.

Bryan Broaddus

Sharrif Floyd, DT, (6-3, 301), Florida
Could play him at tackle or end, both in this Gators scheme….square player…gets up the field…nice quickness when used in the twist stunt…stays active, does not stop….fights off the block…can retrace steps when he gets up the field and the ball comes back inside….showed nice power by throwing Texas A&M tackle Luke Joeckel off balance on a pass rush…will fight the double team block…very mobile to chase….runs plays down from backside…good pass rush moves…quick arm over…active with his hands….can be trouble for blockers when he is on the move…can push the pocket from the inside…played well against outstanding competition….type of player that never comes off the field.

I dont study film or anything but just from reading up on him and seeing where hes going in some mocks, sounds like a guy that would be a good addition. What are your concerns about him?
No sweat. I'm the same way a lot of the time too.

I remember Broaddus' man love for him a few weeks ago. But I just can't find myself blindly following him. He was a part of a lot of BAD Cowboys drafts when he worked for the Cowboys.

I like following what he has to say cause I think sometimes he can echo the feelings of the goings on at Valley Ranch, but his opinions don't really affect me much if I already feel a certain way about a player. Like him saying Warford won't be there for us in the 2nd... meeeh. Maybe, maybe not... but I'm not really buying it at this point.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:46 PM    (permalink
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I understand what you are saying but I think it would be really stupid to not bring ratliff back (would probably have to reconstruct contract). And I agree ware will play the same position as simeon rice. But if you look at the rest of the d-line on that 2002 bucs team the LDE was greg spires and he was 6'1" and only weighing 265 lb's. So hatcher and crawford (if he puts on 10 lb's, which he could) would not fit at the DE position IMO. I think we should go o-line round 1 and draft Brandon Jenkins the DE from Florida St. in the second round.
I think what he meant to say was that Ratliff might not be ready for opener due to the DUI. We'll see. I'm in the boat that thinks he will be ready. 7 years in the league without a blemish. He should get by like Marshawn Lynch and Michael Turner did. Josh Brent is a different story since he killed someone.

I think we need DT help, I just don't love the idea of using our 1st rounder on one. My favorite 3 tech is Short right now and I don't see him being worth 18. My favorite 1 tech is Brandon Williams and he's definitely not worth 18. But he's one of my top targets in Round 2.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:21 AM    (permalink
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No sweat. I'm the same way a lot of the time too.

I remember Broaddus' man love for him a few weeks ago. But I just can't find myself blindly following him. He was a part of a lot of BAD Cowboys drafts when he worked for the Cowboys.

I like following what he has to say cause I think sometimes he can echo the feelings of the goings on at Valley Ranch, but his opinions don't really affect me much if I already feel a certain way about a player. Like him saying Warford won't be there for us in the 2nd... meeeh. Maybe, maybe not... but I'm not really buying it at this point.
Agreed. We are too far from draft day to have inside information though. I am not solid on Floyd at all. He isn't a dynamic 3-tech or an explosive DE so what's the point of stopping to look?

Honestly barring Ratliff getting cut or us making a play for Melton or a DE I'm envisioning our line being:

DEs: Ware / Crawford
NT: Ratliff/Lissemore (camp battle)
UT: Hatcher/Price/Bass (camp battle)

Keep in mind Rob didn't ask Hatcher to play 5-tech the majority of the time especially when the alignment looked like this:



Take note of Hatcher playing over the left guards outside shoulder. Now compare to where the UT (weakside DT) is asked to play in the 4-3.



Hatcher has shown he can generate pressure and I like him winning battles 1v1 with the left guard.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:38 AM    (permalink
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:08 AM    (permalink
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No sweat. I'm the same way a lot of the time too.

I remember Broaddus' man love for him a few weeks ago. But I just can't find myself blindly following him. He was a part of a lot of BAD Cowboys drafts when he worked for the Cowboys.

I like following what he has to say cause I think sometimes he can echo the feelings of the goings on at Valley Ranch, but his opinions don't really affect me much if I already feel a certain way about a player. Like him saying Warford won't be there for us in the 2nd... meeeh. Maybe, maybe not... but I'm not really buying it at this point.
Broaddus was a part of that scouting team that drafted Ware first (against Parcells wish), drafted Witten, brought in Romo. Everyone has their hits and misses. And if you believe Broaddus, Rogers was a Parcells pick that the scouts were not high on.

The thing I like about Broaddus is that he knows how professionals watch tape. That doesn't mean he's right 100%, but he has a PRO scouting background.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:16 PM    (permalink
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Agreed. We are too far from draft day to have inside information though. I am not solid on Floyd at all. He isn't a dynamic 3-tech or an explosive DE so what's the point of stopping to look?

Honestly barring Ratliff getting cut or us making a play for Melton or a DE I'm envisioning our line being:

DEs: Ware / Crawford
NT: Ratliff/Lissemore (camp battle)
UT: Hatcher/Price/Bass (camp battle)

Keep in mind Rob didn't ask Hatcher to play 5-tech the majority of the time especially when the alignment looked like this:



Take note of Hatcher playing over the left guards outside shoulder. Now compare to where the UT (weakside DT) is asked to play in the 4-3.



Hatcher has shown he can generate pressure and I like him winning battles 1v1 with the left guard.
i'm not trying to pick a fight, but i disagree with the positions you have many these guys in

if ratliff is on the roster i believe he is going to be the 3 tech, as the nt it would be no different that the nt in the 3-4 b/c he is going to get double teamed constantly. i don't think lissemore can be an effective nt either, after the brent accident and he was forced to play most of the snaps at nt he wasn't nearly effective. in the games vs cincinati and washington both physical running teams he was getting manhandled to a certain degree, i think he can be backup nose tackle that plays that spot for 8-12 snaps, but as the starter and being there 30+ snaps i don't believe he has the anchor to be effective at that spot.

even though its a 4-3 that nose tackle has to be able to take up 2 blockers otherwise the middle linebacker is gonna have the center in face every time they run the ball, thus you will get run on ALL DAY LONG
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:24 PM    (permalink
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i'm not trying to pick a fight, but i disagree with the positions you have many these guys in

if ratliff is on the roster i believe he is going to be the 3 tech, as the nt it would be no different that the nt in the 3-4 b/c he is going to get double teamed constantly. i don't think lissemore can be an effective nt either, after the brent accident and he was forced to play most of the snaps at nt he wasn't nearly effective. in the games vs cincinati and washington both physical running teams he was getting manhandled to a certain degree, i think he can be backup nose tackle that plays that spot for 8-12 snaps, but as the starter and being there 30+ snaps i don't believe he has the anchor to be effective at that spot.

even though its a 4-3 that nose tackle has to be able to take up 2 blockers otherwise the middle linebacker is gonna have the center in face every time they run the ball, thus you will get run on ALL DAY LONG
I understand both the scheme and what I was suggesting with the lineup placement. Ratliff has already stated he is most comfortable taking double teams and Hatcher has been playing both 3-tech and 5-tech for a while now. If you are envision the Ratliff of old knifing through the line you are watching highlights from 4 years ago. He is a shell of himself. Lissemore is a lot more stout than you lead on.

Keep in mind I am really trusting my eyes and those of Larry Lacewell whom is brought in every year as a consultant on the defensive side during training camp. I'll toss in some of the quotes from Lacewell.

Quote:
Lacewell, who Jerry Jones brings to training camp every year to help evaluate the defensive personnel, believes Kiffin’s scheme will greatly benefit Jay Ratliff and Jason Hatcher.

Ratliff would primarily be a 1-technique defensive tackle, shading the center and shooting the gap. Lacewell compares him to La’Roi Glover, who made four Pro Bowls playing that role for the Cowboys when Mike Zimmer ran a Kiffin copycat scheme in Dallas.

Listen “It’s going to prolong his career,” Lacewell said of Ratliff, a 31-year-old whose streak of four straight Pro Bowls ended when injuries limited him to six games this season. “And I think it’s going to add misery to the offenses.”
So he projects Ratliff as the 1-tech (NT).

Quote:
The 6-foot-6, 305-pound Hatcher would be a 3-technique defensive tackle, playing over the outside eye of a guard. Hatcher, who has 8.5 sacks over the past two seasons as a starting defensive end, would get a lot of one-on-one matchups with guards.

“Hatcher would be an outstanding 3 because he can run,”
Lacewell said. “He can really fly. He’s going to be able to use his athleticism.”
I love the idea of getting Hatcher in 1v1 versus guards. He's strong and fast he is going to be the playmaker in the middle of our line.

Quote:
Sean Lissemore could contribute at both defensive tackle spots. Tyrone Crawford, a third-round pick out of Boise State last season, has potential to play the 3-technique tackle and would be a candidate to start at defensive end if Spencer leaves.
Crawford unless we draft someone new is the ideal physical makeup of a Kiffin strong-side DE. This is the spot I'm most leery with but I'll trust in the staff until my eyes tell me otherwise.

Lissemore would be a rotation guy capable of both spots but he compares very favorable to Ratliff.

Again I'm not trying to pick a fight just explaining the rationale for the projected lineup.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:31 PM    (permalink
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Broaddus was a part of that scouting team that drafted Ware first (against Parcells wish), drafted Witten, brought in Romo. Everyone has their hits and misses. And if you believe Broaddus, Rogers was a Parcells pick that the scouts were not high on.

The thing I like about Broaddus is that he knows how professionals watch tape. That doesn't mean he's right 100%, but he has a PRO scouting background.
Hey if you want to soak up every word he says, it's all good with me.

I don't tend to glorify scouts because just as you say.. they have their hits and misses. These guys are not bulletproof. I've seen waaaaaay too many misses to give them that kind of respect.

I definitely believe Broaddus on Parcells/Rogers. It's true. Parcells was absolutely pathetic at selecting OL. ...but why has he taken sole blame? Of course everyone is there to counter him on Ware, but where were they on countering him on Rogers and all the other busts? It's laughable. People only like to take credit for stuff that works, then hide/blame others when it goes the other way.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:07 PM    (permalink
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Hey if you want to soak up every word he says, it's all good with me.

I don't tend to glorify scouts because just as you say.. they have their hits and misses. These guys are not bulletproof. I've seen waaaaaay too many misses to give them that kind of respect.

I definitely believe Broaddus on Parcells/Rogers. It's true. Parcells was absolutely pathetic at selecting OL. ...but why has he taken sole blame? Of course everyone is there to counter him on Ware, but where were they on countering him on Rogers and all the other busts? It's laughable. People only like to take credit for stuff that works, then hide/blame others when it goes the other way.
Completely not fair. YOu have mischaracterized him.

If you follow Broaddus, as I do, he makes many comments about guys they missed on.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:30 PM    (permalink
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Completely not fair. YOu have mischaracterized him.

If you follow Broaddus, as I do, he makes many comments about guys they missed on.
Fair enough. If he can admit it, then that's enough reason for me to take what he says with a grain of salt.

ie. If he says he loves Floyd, I'm not gonna say stuff like "If Floyd is there at 18, its a no brainer".

I still gotta weigh it against my own thoughts and the thoughts of others.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Fair enough. If he can admit it, then that's enough reason for me to take what he says with a grain of salt.

ie. If he says he loves Floyd, I'm not gonna say stuff like "If Floyd is there at 18, its a no brainer".

I still gotta weigh it against my own thoughts and the thoughts of others.
Lol. Well i Gave Broddus' writeup but hes not the only one saying how good the kid is. I read not to long ago that a scout said he (Floyd) is a top 10 pick. IDK we'll see, but from everything Ive read/heard it sounds like we will go DT in the 1st round. I figured Floyd would be gone which is why I mocked Richardson to us. I dont think Warmack will fall to 18. Just my opinion
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:50 PM    (permalink
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BTW Ive also heard we like Eric Reid in the 2nd. Not a fan, better S out there IMO
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:52 PM    (permalink
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BTW Ive also heard we like Eric Reid in the 2nd. Not a fan, better S out there IMO
2nd round I can't complain. I think there might be better out there, but I don't know for a certainty. I definitely have better pet cats though.

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Old 02-07-2013, 01:57 PM    (permalink
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18. Dallas Cowboys

McShay: Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri

Kiper: Chance Warmack, G, Alabama
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:58 PM    (permalink
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Lol. Well i Gave Broddus' writeup but hes not the only one saying how good the kid is. I read not to long ago that a scout said he (Floyd) is a top 10 pick. IDK we'll see, but from everything Ive read/heard it sounds like we will go DT in the 1st round. I figured Floyd would be gone which is why I mocked Richardson to us. I dont think Warmack will fall to 18. Just my opinion
I will tell you why I think folks are calling him a Top 10 pick. The last impression he left on everybody was a VERY STRONG Bowl game. He was AWESOME. So guys are riding that hype. Guys are trying to be "that guy" who says "Look at Floyd people. He's gonna go higher than people think he will." and stuff like that.

Eh, I hate that. He's been inconsistent like heck in his career and I don't see that changing. I don't wanna take a chance on a guy like that in Round 1.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:59 PM    (permalink
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18. Dallas Cowboys

McShay: Sheldon Richardson, DT, Missouri

Kiper: Chance Warmack, G, Alabama
Bottoms up!
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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Bottoms up!
I'd be very happy with both.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:30 AM    (permalink
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I know we've talked a bit about Fluker in here..but wanted to post this. Have him going 21 or 19....he could also go 18 if the rumors are true. Not saying it's gonna happen...just that it seems NFL personnel might like that body enough to take him after or even before Lane Johnson. Could see something funny like that happening to us...he's my dark horse at this point. Can't wait for the combine to get here!

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- Since declaring for the draft we’ve graded Alabama offensive tackle D.J. Fluker as a second round choice. It seems a number of teams have a higher opinion of the big tackle and feel Fluker won’t make it out of round one. Many in the scouting community think Fluker does not make it past the 21st pick of round one, presently held by the Cincinnati Bengals. In fact some confided Fluker may be a better fit for the New York Giants at pick 19. Despite not playing at the Senior Bowl due to groin and calf issues, teams were blown away during weigh-ins when Fluker measured just under 6-feet, 5-inches and tipped the scales at 355-pounds. His arm length of 36.38-inches was the clincher. Those we’ve spoken with love Fluker’s game film against LSU (Mingo & Montgomery) and Georgia (Jones). On a personal note I was introduced to Fluker on Sunday of the Senior Bowl by a long time friend from Mobile and was impressed with the big right tackle. Fluker really comes off as articulate, respectful and likable.
http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6741
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:39 PM    (permalink
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This has to be the worst suggestion I've ever seen.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/dallas-...0934--nfl.html

Montee Ball at 18.
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Old 02-12-2013, 12:41 PM    (permalink
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I know we've talked a bit about Fluker in here..but wanted to post this. Have him going 21 or 19....he could also go 18 if the rumors are true. Not saying it's gonna happen...just that it seems NFL personnel might like that body enough to take him after or even before Lane Johnson. Could see something funny like that happening to us...he's my dark horse at this point. Can't wait for the combine to get here!


http://www.draftinsider.net/blog/?p=6741
Yeah, I definitely like him at 18 if Warmack is off the board. Strictly as a Guard though. I don't like him a lot at RT in our division where we have a lot of speed rushers. If RT is what we want, then even at 18, I'd rather have Menelik Watson who seems to be rising quickly.
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Old 02-14-2013, 02:33 AM    (permalink
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Personally, I don't like Floyd as much as most. I read "stays active, fights off blocks". I dont see it enough. I see a guy who has to win off the snap or else he doesn't make a play. More boom or bust. He makes great plays, but also has plays where he gives up. Needs to work on his hands for sure, gets stuck on a single block too often. Also has a problem with moving too much laterally and not enough up field when stuck on blocks.

Now when he does win off the snap, he's a very good player. I just assume you will win off the snap less in the NFL. Counter moves and persistence will become much more important attributes.

Given his body type, id also think Floyd would be a little more stout at POA. I see him get wiped out by double teams, which will happen to even great DT's, but too often w Floyd. He will split them, but id also like to see him hold ground.

I think he's a 1st rounder, just not on the same level as Star or Richardson (top 10), More in the 12-25 range.

Sheldon Richardson on the other hand seems to always stay active, always fight off blocks, and cause more disruption in the backfield than any over DT in the class.

Richardson isn't the best guy in the class against the run, but I think it's undeniable he's the best pass rusher of the group and superior to Floyd.

when you consider the Cowboys have 2 games a year against Rg3 and 2 games a year against chip Kelly -- it's important to have a DT with the type of range Richardson has as well.

I don't think you lose if you get Floyd. My personal preference just leans towards Richardson and Star. Of course it's likely all 3 are gone before 18.

I also doubt the Boys seriously consider a guard in the first round. Jerry isn't ready to throw in the towel on his Bernardeu/Livings experiment and paid a lot of money to Leary, not to mention called him up off the PS.

He also like Parnell a bunch and hasn't stopped talking about him since the past preseason. According to Jerry, John Madden thinks Parnell has what it takes to be great.

Smith/Livings/Bernardeu/Leary/Parnell is my guess on who they hope they can be good enough with.

If Star/Richardson/Floyd are all gone at 18 I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Jerry try and trade back. Really doubt they see the value in a guard that high in the first. Just remember DeCastro last year -- got similar hype to Warmack. Dropped all the way to Pittsburgh.

DL in the 1st is my guess at this point. trade down if top 3 are missing.


Random:

If both Warmack and Cooper are available, I'd rather trade down a few spots while hoping to still land Cooper. Think he's a better LG. also think Boys need LG more than RG and feel RG has more options later in draft when considering undersized RT's.

Really like TE out of Bama, Michael Williams, later in the draft as the 3rd TE for this team. Great blocker. Underrated hands. Probably 5th rd guy?

Think Vacarro is best of safety group, but not by significant amount. Also think all the safeties in this class are better suited to play the run. Not seeing the ballhawks. Cutting Sensabaugh will make it more of a need with Church coming off injury and Johnson an untested, small school guy shouldn't be counted on. Sensabaugh is trash though. Vacarro and Cyprien would be cool, although Cyprien needs to work on tackling. Too many broken tackles.

on Swearinger. He made some big plays, he also missed some routine plays. Big time rah rah guy which is cool if you're into it, I'm not. Don't need to see a guy talking after every play. Not that it changes who he is as a player. Just something I don't like. Looks like everything you want against Arkansas, looks like a player I wouldn't touch against Clemson. Just not completely sold on him.

Matt Elam reminds me of former Gator Major Wright, who I really liked. A guy who plays really physical and has the speed to cover, but doesn't always use it right. major had same issues but played at a pro bowl level this past season in Chicago. Would really like Elam in the 3rd. Would welcome it in 2nd though.

Vacarro, Cyprien, Elam, Swearinger would be my order at this point

And finally, on Broaddus, I'd take what he says with a grain of salt. Often writes favorable opinion of the team because they cut his check. Also makes some bad calls. Example: I tweet BB early in season and ask why Parnell, who looked impressive in preseason, doesn't replace Free. BB responds with a snide remark along the lines of "if you knew what you were watching, you'd know Parnell doesn't belong on the field" fast forward later on in season and Parnell is rotating with Free and BB is writing that Parnell is playing at least equal to Free for a fraction of the price.

I also told BB Cowboys weren't good at evaluating OL. BB responds by saying "Yeah, I guess Tyron Smith is a terrible player" -- well no, Bryan. But has he lived up to his draft position yet? No he has not. And he's 1 of 5 players on the line. The other 4 all had stretches of terrible play. BB came back to tell me "Livings and Bernardeu not as bad as you want to believe" -- ok, well isn't just me. PFF had them rated as 2 of the worst OG's in the league.

Basically he's a name without much substance. Just like Peter King. Just like a lot of the top journalists. I'd hold Scott, Jeremiah, Bruger and a handful of other guys who post online head and shoulders above the "well known" guys who just regurgitate sources and have ulterior motives for their writing.

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