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Old 02-06-2013, 09:15 PM    (permalink
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What team pays a punter who isn't even considered a pro bowler 3.25 mil a year? Come on. You're telling me he cant be replaced.
You act like the 3 million is a huge number. In the grad scheme of things, it is pretty much nothing. We have 30 million to work with and we don't need to be cutting players who are still great contributors. There is a 99.9% chance Koenen is our punter come week 1, so there really is no reason contemplating his axing. If we had 10 mil, or 5 mil, cutting him might be more viable, but the fact is we are sitting in an attractive position cap wise and don't need to cut costs, especially when the guy we replace him with will probably be worse.
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Old 02-07-2013, 01:18 AM    (permalink
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Being that we need a backup RB. What about Chris Ivory? He's a RFA, but I can't see NO spending any money on him with already have inch three backs and many holes on D.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:14 AM    (permalink
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Being that we need a backup RB. What about Chris Ivory? He's a RFA, but I can't see NO spending any money on him with already have inch three backs and many holes on D.
#2 RB is definitely something I want addressed in the offseason. Blount is trash and we could benefit a short yardage guy. I love Dougie because he can do it all, but someone to take 5-7 carriers away from him would be a good thing.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:15 AM    (permalink
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#2 RB is definitely something I want addressed in the offseason. Blount is trash and we could benefit a short yardage guy. I love Dougie because he can do it all, but someone to take 5-7 carriers away from him would be a good thing.
Ivory will be retained. I see a bigger role for Michael smith this year. Bucs I think got a very good compliment in the draft last year but wasn't active due to pass protection issues and blitz pick ups.
Blount is terrible.
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Old 02-07-2013, 06:29 AM    (permalink
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Ivory will be retained. I see a bigger role for Michael smith this year. Bucs I think got a very good compliment in the draft last year but wasn't active due to pass protection issues and blitz pick ups.
Blount is terrible.
Relying on Smith to be the #2 seems risky.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 AM    (permalink
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It's a shame Blount does not have a work ethic or the smarts to learn blitz pickups, he's a talented player. Probably can find a quality backup in Free Agency or late in the draft. I don't see it as that much of a need to be honest.
I'd be cool with Blount and Ware as the backups for one more year.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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Relying on Smith to be the #2 seems risky.
Explain how? He did nothing but impress last year in TC and pre season. He's a talented player.
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Old 02-07-2013, 04:16 PM    (permalink
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You act like the 3 million is a huge number. In the grad scheme of things, it is pretty much nothing. We have 30 million to work with and we don't need to be cutting players who are still great contributors. There is a 99.9% chance Koenen is our punter come week 1, so there really is no reason contemplating his axing. If we had 10 mil, or 5 mil, cutting him might be more viable, but the fact is we are sitting in an attractive position cap wise and don't need to cut costs, especially when the guy we replace him with will probably be worse.
What team pays a punter who isn't even on the field more money then your starting de last year and this year? Seriously you ca take that 3 million and sign someone better and get yourself a punter for half a mil. Atlanta probably laughed when Dom signed him in 2011 to a 6yr 20 mil deal while they replaced him with a guy just as good for 2.75 mil a year less.
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Old 02-07-2013, 05:22 PM    (permalink
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Explain how? He did nothing but impress last year in TC and pre season. He's a talented player.
He has done literally nothing in an actual game to impress? That seems like something to be somewhat weary of...

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What team pays a punter who isn't even on the field more money then your starting de last year and this year? Seriously you ca take that 3 million and sign someone better and get yourself a punter for half a mil. Atlanta probably laughed when Dom signed him in 2011 to a 6yr 20 mil deal while they replaced him with a guy just as good for 2.75 mil a year less.
Making a comparison between wage numbers really isn't relevant. Tampa has huge cap space, there is no need to cut him to save money. Like I said earlier, if the team were struggling to make the cap, or could cut him to accomodate another superior player at a more important position, then sure. The fact is we have 30 million approximately in cap room and probably won't get within 10 million of that number come start of season. Cutting him is unnecessary.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:16 PM    (permalink
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Ivory will be retained. I see a bigger role for Michael smith this year. Bucs I think got a very good compliment in the draft last year but wasn't active due to pass protection issues and blitz pick ups.
Blount is terrible.
How do you know Ivory will be? They need to fill at least 5 spots on D plus sign their LT. No way Ivory is in NO next season
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:32 PM    (permalink
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How do you know Ivory will be? They need to fill at least 5 spots on D plus sign their LT. No way Ivory is in NO next season
It's New Orleans. They love hoarding mediocre running backs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:54 PM    (permalink
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How do you know Ivory will be? They need to fill at least 5 spots on D plus sign their LT. No way Ivory is in NO next season
He's an RFA. He'll be cheap bc no one will surrender a pick in the first 3 rounds for him and they get him cheap for 1-1.8 mil for another year.

EDIT: so u can understand they hold the rights to retain him for another year for cheap.

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Old 02-07-2013, 08:57 PM    (permalink
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He has done literally nothing in an actual game to impress? That seems like something to be somewhat weary of...



Making a comparison between wage numbers really isn't relevant. Tampa has huge cap space, there is no need to cut him to save money. Like I said earlier, if the team were struggling to make the cap, or could cut him to accomodate another superior player at a more important position, then sure. The fact is we have 30 million approximately in cap room and probably won't get within 10 million of that number come start of season. Cutting him is unnecessary.
Doesn't matter huge cap space or not. You ca add an extra 2.75 in cap spacce and spread it out to key players and future deals. Koenen is decent PUNTER. 3.25 mil? Look at it as an outsider and fan from a different team for a second and tell me that much money for a punter who isn't even an all pro or pro bowler and guys who cost much less and the value of the position compared to others is worth that much? Come on man.
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Old 02-08-2013, 05:58 AM    (permalink
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Doesn't matter huge cap space or not. You ca add an extra 2.75 in cap spacce and spread it out to key players and future deals. Koenen is decent PUNTER. 3.25 mil? Look at it as an outsider and fan from a different team for a second and tell me that much money for a punter who isn't even an all pro or pro bowler and guys who cost much less and the value of the position compared to others is worth that much? Come on man.
I've never understood why we as fans really care about whether a player is overpaid by a million or two. The way I look at it is we have ourselves a good punter, who excels on kickoffs (2nd in the league). It's not like the guy is shanking punts and kicking to the 5 yard line constantly.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:42 AM    (permalink
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I've never understood why we as fans really care about whether a player is overpaid by a million or two. The way I look at it is we have ourselves a good punter, who excels on kickoffs (2nd in the league). It's not like the guy is shanking punts and kicking to the 5 yard line constantly.
Bc it's a punter. You can get a good punter with the same production as Koenen for a lot cheaper. I LOLd at the move then and still can't believe 6 yrs 20 million for a punter.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:45 AM    (permalink
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Bc it's a punter. You can get a good punter with the same production as Koenen for a lot cheaper. I LOLd at the move then and still can't believe 6 yrs 20 million for a punter.
He isn't just a punter. His touchbacks are amazing for our ST.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:50 AM    (permalink
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He isn't just a punter. His touchbacks are amazing for our ST.
I'm not even going to argue this. 90% of the kikoffs end in a touchback league wide. I'm sure Barth can fill that role. If you really think Koenen is worth that much money you should have your football iq tested. Either that or you're wing too much of a homer.
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Old 02-08-2013, 03:19 PM    (permalink
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Mock off season Updated: Post Senior Bowl and Super Bowl
Cap before Cuts: 31.5 Mil. After Cuts: 48 million to spend.
Key Resignings:
- FS Ronde Barber
- DE Michael Bennett
- DT Roy Miller
- T Demar Dotson (RFA Tender 2nd round)
- DE Daniel Teo Neishem

Extension: Mike Williams: 6 year 43 mil.
Cap Casualties:
- CB Eric Wright : saving 7.50mil
- LB Quincy Black: Saving 5.75 mil
- Michael Koenen: Saving 3.25

Free Agents:
- CB Derrek Cox
- CB Mike Jenkins
- LB Michael Boley
- TE Jared Cook Jr.
- T Gosder Cherilus

Draft:
1st Round: Sheldon Richardson DT Missouri
2nd Round: (trading New Englands 4th to move up): Terrance Williams WR Baylor
3rd: Phillip Thomas FS Fresno State
4th : Jawan Jameson RB Rutgers
5th : Quanterrus Smith DE W. Kentucky
6th: Terrance Brown CB Stanford
7th: Matt Stankewitch C Penn State
Demar Dotson is an unrestricted FA. I don't see us cutting Koenen. Yes, he can be replaced, but $3.25 is not too much to pay for a decent punter when the alternative is Robert Malones and Brent Bowden (could've had Greg Hardy if we hadn't drafted Bowden)... we know it can be a lot worse.

As for free agency and the draft, I'm pretty sure the team will attempt to get EJ Biggers back under contract. Dominik has been pretty transparent about players, often complimenting them before he extends them, then not mentioning a guy when mentioning a position group, then cutting him shortly after (LaQuan Lewis being the latest)

Personally, I see us as big players in free agency again. That means perhaps we get either Paul Kruger or Michael Johnson to the negotiating table. I really like Michael Bennett, but Bennett does not nearly have the edge rush ability of either of those guys. Paul Kruger is a superstar on the rise. I'd take Kruger over Bennett any day. Williams too.

As for the draft, I think because we will be so active in free agency, it is very premature to speculate what we will do... that being said I think we will get a couple of CBs in free agency (both 2nd tier guys-as if there is any other kind) and for us to get better at DE. I think they'll look to free agency for a TE as well.

Which leaves us with our remaining holes....DT---Corey Irvin got snaps last season and depth is atrocious. MLB/SLB Foster struggles in coverage, perhaps drafting a Sam and grooming him into a Mike may be the answer or perhaps they go straight for a Mike. CB depth... FS of the future if they aren't confident in Black. Slot WR... OL depth.

1) I think there is a very real chance we take a DT here (Richardson). The DTs, outside of Melton, are very uninspiring. I would love to see us trade down into the early 20's and take CB Trufant, but if we stand at 13, I think upgrading the front 4 takes precedence... of course we drafted a S last year (?)

2) If we don't go CB in round 1, I think it is highly likely we go with one here. The guy I would LOVE to see us take is Rutgers LB Khaseem Greene. Logan Ryan, also of Rutgers would be a fit, Jordan Poyer could still be around.

3) If we're still looking for guys to play from day 1 in round 3 and not solely special teamers, I think we go for a slot WR that can also return kicks and punts. Marqise Goodwin fits the bill along with a few other guys

4) With the 4th round picks I expect us to go back to the well on DBs and look at a S. Sanders Commings has the makings of a great FS that can come up and cover a slot or TE. Duke Williams flies around like a mini-LB, either would likely be eventual starters for us and special teams standouts.

4) I'm thinking we would go TE or LB if we haven't already chosen one with one of the 4th rounders.

5) after round 4, the Bucs will be looking solely for special teamers that can backup if needed. Offensive linemen, TEs (we always seem to draft one in round 7 under Dom), more DBs, and possibly a RB.

Again, without us knowing what we've done in free agency, it is impossible to predict what our exact needs are.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:45 PM    (permalink
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You forgot about a backup QB, I think we take one around the 4th or 5th. Lot of good points brasho and of course it depends on FA on how the draft plays out. That's why most of the mocks on here I don't really have a problem with because who knows who we are going to sign, fun to speculate though.

As far as Hardy over Bowden also could have taken Dunlap over Benn in the second Gronk over Brian Price and Navarro Bowman over Myron Lewis in the third also would have had a 5th round pick back and could have taken Arthur Jones - that would have been a pretty sick draft.

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Old 02-08-2013, 08:38 PM    (permalink
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Brasho,

I like Kruegar and Johnson as well, but I think Kruegar goes to Indy. They have the cap space and need at a pass rusher OLB. Plus, Pagano and his ties to the Baltimore Defense. I think it's just too much of a perfect fit.

Cincinatti has 55 million in cap space. I think it's safe to say their is a strong chance Johnson is either locked up or franchised. To put it, I don't see him getting away.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:21 PM    (permalink
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You forgot about a backup QB, I think we take one around the 4th or 5th. Lot of good points brasho and of course it depends on FA on how the draft plays out. That's why most of the mocks on here I don't really have a problem with because who knows who we are going to sign, fun to speculate though.

As far as Hardy over Bowden also could have taken Dunlap over Benn in the second Gronk over Brian Price and Navarro Bowman over Myron Lewis in the third also would have had a 5th round pick back and could have taken Arthur Jones - that would have been a pretty sick draft.
That 2010 draft we could have had Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Golden Tate, Navarro Bowman, Rob Gronkowski, or Jimmy Graham over the bums Arrellious Benn, Brian Price, and Myron Lewis.

That's why we are where we are now. Drafted need over BPA.
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:30 PM    (permalink
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I'm not even going to argue this. 90% of the kikoffs end in a touchback league wide. I'm sure Barth can fill that role. If you really think Koenen is worth that much money you should have your football iq tested. Either that or you're wing too much of a homer.
You just don't understand the point I'm making. It won't matter because we won't cut Koenen anyway :)
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:38 PM    (permalink
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That 2010 draft we could have had Geno Atkins, Carlos Dunlap, Golden Tate, Navarro Bowman, Rob Gronkowski, or Jimmy Graham over the bums Arrellious Benn, Brian Price, and Myron Lewis.

That's why we are where we are now. Drafted need over BPA.
It wasn't necessarily drafting need over BPA. Price and Benn were quite fondly thought of come draft day. Our scouting staff just didn't do a good enough job.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:07 AM    (permalink
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It wasn't necessarily drafting need over BPA. Price and Benn were quite fondly thought of come draft day. Our scouting staff just didn't do a good enough job.
You guys act like coaching or scouting could have stopped what happened to Brain Price. The guy is not in this league anymore because of injury. He cant run more than 5 yards without pulling up. That's not on scouting.

Benn to me was a bust coming out. He lived off being the number 1 WR coming out in high school. But hey maybe he can turn it around. He has had a ACL among other stuff that's keep him off the field.
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Old 02-09-2013, 03:17 AM    (permalink
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You guys act like coaching or scouting could have stopped what happened to Brain Price. The guy is not in this league anymore because of injury. He cant run more than 5 yards without pulling up. That's not on scouting.

Benn to me was a bust coming out. He lived off being the number 1 WR coming out in high school. But hey maybe he can turn it around. He has had a ACL among other stuff that's keep him off the field.
Just because I didn't mention it, doesn't mean I don't think it was a huge factor in ending his career. The point was more that proper scouting would have enabled us to select players OTHER than Price and Benn.
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