2013 Bucs draft. - Page 20

bucfan12 · 02-09-2013, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

You just don't understand the point I'm making. It won't matter because we won't cut Koenen anyway :)

Lets put it this way: IF we were to cut Koenen tomorrow, he wouldnt get half of the 3.25 mil he will get from Tampa on the open market. Why? Because teams aren't that stupid

kBuc5 · 02-09-2013, 01:03 PM

The Falcons paid him over 2 mil for a year, it's not like the guy is not a good player. Considering contracts like the Quincy Black deal and Clayton deal I'm not complaining about Koenen one bit, even if he is slightly overpaid.

kBuc5 · 02-09-2013, 01:26 PM

Probably not much of a chance of happening but I would seriously consider bringing in Chris Rainey as our Punt and Kick returner.

bucfan12 · 02-09-2013, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kBuc5

Probably not much of a chance of happening but I would seriously consider bringing in Chris Rainey as our Punt and Kick returner.

Ehh. Don't think he's a schiano guy. This is the 2nd incident of assault against his GF (once back in Florida, and most recent). Probably no chance we look at him.

I think we have a pretty good KR in Michael Smith. Thing is, we need a guy who can field punts.

kBuc5 · 02-10-2013, 09:24 AM

Maybe he's a Wandstat guy lol. I would take the risk but we probably don't. Hopefully we can find one in the draft.

SpinaMan · 02-11-2013, 11:03 AM

Say we go CB in FA this offseason. I would like us to go after DJ Fluker RT from Alabama to shore up that right side. Thoughts?

kBuc5 · 02-11-2013, 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpinaMan

Say we go CB in FA this offseason. I would like us to go after DJ Fluker RT from Alabama to shore up that right side. Thoughts?

Wouldn't mind it, don't think we target a OL that early though. Dotson was not that bad considering he only started two games before this year.
I expect us to get a CB in FA and draft one early regardless.

bigfreak314 · 02-11-2013, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpinaMan

Say we go CB in FA this offseason. I would like us to go after DJ Fluker RT from Alabama to shore up that right side. Thoughts?

I think we could get a quality RT during the later portion of the draft. My dream scenario would be one in which we trade back get a extra 2nd or 3rd and grab some more defensive people. 27 sacks and last in the league at stopping the pass, we need someone who can get after the QB early in the draft. We were great at stopping the run but we have 3 pro bowl QBs in our division who probably lick their chops when they play us!

SpinaMan · 02-12-2013, 10:41 AM

Yeah I agree we need to get after the qb. Our oline will be good enough for some years to come. So we better rebuild the d while we can.

RStriff27 · 02-12-2013, 11:32 AM

Ok so im thinking theres a good chance we can trade back a little bit. Heres my dream/realistic scenario:

Trade back a few spots and pick Xavier Rhodes
use the 3rd rounder we get in the trade to move up in 2nd and pick
Khasseem Greene.
find a decent OL in the middle rounds
Draft Landry Jones in the 4th
Pick up the TE from Rutgers in the late rounds DC Jefferson

FA pick ups
Sheldon Brown or Derek Cox
Resign Michael Bennett
Sign Martellus Bennett

starting CBs week 1
Rhodes
Brown/Cox
Biggers
Leonard Johnson. (btw i think hes gonna explode this year)

brasho · 02-12-2013, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigfreak314

I think we could get a quality RT during the later portion of the draft. My dream scenario would be one in which we trade back get a extra 2nd or 3rd and grab some more defensive people. 27 sacks and last in the league at stopping the pass, we need someone who can get after the QB early in the draft. We were great at stopping the run but we have 3 pro bowl QBs in our division who probably lick their chops when they play us!

I have to say I agree completely. I would love to hit on a couple of guys to improve the front 7 AND pick up the extra pick.

The way I'm looking at it and guessing Dom's draft and free agent philosophies, I think he uses the draft to improve the front 7 and looks to free agency for DB and receiving help.

I don't have any DBs as top half of the draft guys... ANY... so picking anybody that high, including Milner, is a bit of a reach. I do have DT Sheldon Richardson that high... and if Roy Miller doesn't re-sign, heck, even if he does, we have no depth, that would be a natural fit.

What we do in the draft will depend heavily on what we do in free agency. I believe that Dom values veteran TEs way more than younger ones. He traded for Winslow and signed Clark, this tells me we will likely be going through guys like Dustin Keller, Jared Cook, and Martellus Bennett (and possibly a couple others) to find ourselves a solid 2nd-tier TE while using the draft (McCoy, Clayborn, Bowers, Price were all 1st and 2nd round picks under Dom) to find a young stud defensive linemen. It is a very sound philosophy. Generally, younger DL perform better and are far more useful than young TEs, WRs, QBs, and OL are in their early years.

They've also had good success at drafting and getting production from LBs as well.

I see the Bucs addressing TE, CB, OL, and possibly safety in free agency (I don't think they want to pair Barron with a rookie if Barber doesn't return). Slot WR is a good possibility as well if there is somebody there of value.

I see the Bucs addressing DT, LB, CB, and possibly DE in the draft.

This is just based on past draft history AND statements made by Dom. Keeping this in mind, there is a very good chance the team doesn't draft a CB in round 1, doesn't touch a TE or OL in the first 3 rounds, and again stocks up on the front 7.

Caddy · 02-14-2013, 07:27 AM

I agree there isn't a lot of top half options at corner, but I'd be pretty happy with Milliner.

bucfan12 · 02-14-2013, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caddy

I agree there isn't a lot of top half options at corner, but I'd be pretty happy with Milliner.

I'm not high on milliner. I think he's not even the top cb. I think Xavier Rhodes is going to be a stud te more I watch him. Very phiscial cb with fluid hips and athleticism. Excels in man coverage. Hes a schiano guy.

brasho · 02-15-2013, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

I'm not high on milliner. I think he's not even the top cb. I think Xavier Rhodes is going to be a stud te more I watch him. Very phiscial cb with fluid hips and athleticism. Excels in man coverage. Hes a schiano guy.

I don't mind Rhodes, but Antrell Rolle keeps popping into my head.

A few years back there was a debate, Pacman Jones or Rolle. I picked Rolle because he wasn't a complete idiot and because he was bigger that if he couldn't cut it at CB, he could be a safety. I'm not sure Rhodes stays at CB either. He's one guy that I do really care about what time he runs.

RStriff27 · 02-15-2013, 12:52 PM

i agree. i think Rhodes is a guy you have to look at as a schiano "guy"

i think only IF they trade back a little and get something, then u pull the trigger on Rhodes.

If they stay put at 13 i think you go BPA which id say is a toss up:
Dion Jordan
Ogletree
Barkevious Mingo
Star Lotulelie sp?
etc

IF and its a huge IF Bjorne Werner falls to them...i think Dominik might take a shot. this guy just screams NFL star to me.

we will see i suppose.

brasho · 02-15-2013, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RStriff27

i agree. i think Rhodes is a guy you have to look at as a schiano "guy"

i think only IF they trade back a little and get something, then u pull the trigger on Rhodes.

If they stay put at 13 i think you go BPA which id say is a toss up:
Dion Jordan
Ogletree
Barkevious Mingo
Star Lotulelie sp?
etc

IF and its a huge IF Bjorne Werner falls to them...i think Dominik might take a shot. this guy just screams NFL star to me.

we will see i suppose.

I'm in love with the idea of trading back. Perhaps we get the 21 and 37 of Cincinatti which may put us in position to really stock up.

We'd have 21, 37, 43 which would put us in position to draft a defensive lineman (Richardson, Short, Jordan, Ansah) in round 1, then get a CB (Trufant, Poyer) and LB (Greene) in round 2. That's win-win-win to me. I really like Trufant and Greene and think that if we can obtain them in the 2nd round we would have two huge steals that would be big-time players for the Bucs for a long time.

bucfan12 · 02-16-2013, 09:14 AM

I don't see Antrelle Rolle at all in Rhodes. Rhodes is a lot more athletic and he is able to turn and run with his defender. His straightline 40 speed meens nothing for any CB. It's how you move your hips. Rhodes does not have stiff hips. I think Rhodes would be a great fit at 13. The more I watch him, the more impressed I am. He stuck DeAndre Hopkins 1 on 1 the entire game. The one big 49 yard play hopkins had was zone coverage where the Safety missed his assignment. Other than that, Hopkins did squat. He also shut down Michael Floyd on a bad knee.

His potential is a top tier CB. If he's there at 13, I'd definately take him. No hesitation.

bucfan12 · 02-16-2013, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brasho

I'm in love with the idea of trading back. Perhaps we get the 21 and 37 of Cincinatti which may put us in position to really stock up.

We'd have 21, 37, 43 which would put us in position to draft a defensive lineman (Richardson, Short, Jordan, Ansah) in round 1, then get a CB (Trufant, Poyer) and LB (Greene) in round 2. That's win-win-win to me. I really like Trufant and Greene and think that if we can obtain them in the 2nd round we would have two huge steals that would be big-time players for the Bucs for a long time.

I don't see Cincinatti trading up unless they absolutely covet someone that fell to us. I know it's an example, but don't see it happening.

Sheldon Richardson, a guy both you and I love, is going to be gone by the time we pick. Too many scouts love him, and he won't make it past Tennessee and that is if someone else doesn't trade up into the top 10 for him. Dallas is needing a 3 technique and could make a move for him.

Ansah is also picking up hype as well. I think he can be a dominate player, but the way many missed on JPP, I can see him being picked very high.

I'm not liking Jordan that much. The more I watch film, the more I see him as not strong enough to beat defenders. He's got speed but in the NFL, you need to have strength and moves to get around LTs. Jordan is too frail as he played the entire season at 228lbs.

kBuc5 · 02-16-2013, 11:20 AM

As far as Jordan he's a real intriguing guy, he's a converted TE and only been playing DE for a few years so he probably still has a lot of room to get better. Oregon lined him up all over the place on the defensive side, he's going to be a creative DC's wet dream. I think he is definitely worth the 13th overall pick.
Not to dismiss Rhodes, think would be a fine choice to.
How much of a drop off is there at CB from round one to round two and how much of a drop off is there from the DE's, that is something I would consider also.

bucfan12 · 02-16-2013, 11:58 AM

I just see Rhodes potential as a stud #1 CB who can match up with any WR thrown at him. His physicality and athleticism and instincts just make me think the Bucs are salivating over him. He's the typical Schiano type player.

Playing in the division against Roddy White and Jullio Jones and the Saints passing arsenal, bigger CBs are needed.

I do agree with Brasho. Dline is also concerning, however, I think we need just a guy inside next to McCoy the more I look at it. And I think it's better to get that in FA. Whats another inexperienced pass rusher going to do with our younger guys? I think Bowers has great potential. Clayborn, we've seen the motor and he had 7.5 sacks in his rookie year. His motor is non stop, so when hes healthy, he's a handful. Normally, you give lineman 3 years to develop. Glad we did that with McCoy.

A outside pass rusher to keep an eye on is Quanterrus Smith out of Western Kentucky. He's 6'5 250 lbs, but he's got some good pass rush moves, speed and strength. He owned DJ Fluker all day for 3 sacks. 4th round consideration there.

brasho · 02-18-2013, 06:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

I don't see Antrelle Rolle at all in Rhodes. Rhodes is a lot more athletic and he is able to turn and run with his defender. His straightline 40 speed meens nothing for any CB. It's how you move your hips. Rhodes does not have stiff hips. I think Rhodes would be a great fit at 13. The more I watch him, the more impressed I am. He stuck DeAndre Hopkins 1 on 1 the entire game. The one big 49 yard play hopkins had was zone coverage where the Safety missed his assignment. Other than that, Hopkins did squat. He also shut down Michael Floyd on a bad knee.

His potential is a top tier CB. If he's there at 13, I'd definately take him. No hesitation.

Antrelle Rolle was a decent CB and a very good CB prospect. My concern with Rhodes is that as physical as he is, he will have to be significantly less physical and less hands on in the NFL than he was in college. College CBs get away with a lot more than they can in the NFL. I know how physical Rhodes is, and I also know how physicality can make up for a myriad of weaknesses, including speed.

The 40 yard time is as important, or more so, at the CB position than perhaps any other. Leonard Johnson's 4.71 40 at the combine was likely the sole reason he didn't get drafted, and while he did improve to a mid 4.55 run at his pro day, it wasn't nearly enough to erase doubts about his long speed. The jury is still out on Johnson, between watching Julio Jones torch him, among others, and nearly getting caught by a slow moving offensive lineman on his pick 6 against the Chargers, he still has to prove he has the speed to make it long term in the NFL.

I'm sure Rhodes has ENOUGH speed to play CB in the NFL, just like Rolle did, I want to see if he has enough speed to be elite, which is a valid expectation for a CB drafted #13 overall.

brasho · 02-18-2013, 06:51 AM

Other than Henry Melton, I don't see any great prospects at DT in free agency. Also, conventional organization building wisdom (see Belichick, Bill) states that you use premium picks on the DL while you use free agency to fill skill positions. The thinking is that due to occurrence of injuries and fresh legs, it is better to be younger at DL, while it is better to have honed the craft and be smart at skill positions. I agree with this philosophy and think that it will likely steer us to continue to add to the DL early on for us.

Sheldon Richardson, Kawann Short, Datone Jones (yes, the DE that I see as a possibility inside), Shariff Floyd, and Brandon Williams are all guys I can see us targeting earlier in the draft.

brasho · 02-18-2013, 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucfan12

Whats another inexperienced pass rusher going to do with our younger guys? I think Bowers has great potential. Clayborn, we've seen the motor and he had 7.5 sacks in his rookie year. His motor is non stop, so when hes healthy, he's a handful.

The problem here is that NONE of these guys are true edge rushers. Bowers is a power/leverage guy, so is Bennett, Clayborn is more of a power/effort guy, I see nobody on our roster that can really get upfield, beat the OT on his outside shoulder and force the QB to step up into McCoy and company that should be pushing the pocket. We need an upfield threat, a guy that can run the arc, a la Kruger, Michael Johnson, Connor Barwin (I'm not a big Avril fan) and make every player on the DL better.

This absence of an upfield rusher is one reason why I'm not down on Jordan and not so high on Ansah. Jordan is a guy that can play the Sam on run downs and get upfield at DE on passing downs. Ansah has the speed to get upfield, but has never shown the takeoff or agility to get to the edge and bend around the OT.

I don't see a ton of edge guys like we need available at #13. There are good athletes, but no elite pass rushers. My hope is that Jarvis Jones drops due to medical concerns and becomes our Von Miller.

Legacy · 02-18-2013, 04:44 PM

Da'Quan Bowers is ********. He was arrested today in New York for carrying a loaded handgun into LaGuardia Airport.

Re-signing Michael Bennett just became a priority.

kBuc5 · 02-18-2013, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legacy

Da'Quan Bowers is ********. He was arrested today in New York for carrying a loaded handgun into LaGuardia Airport.

Re-signing Michael Bennett just became a priority.

Boneheaded move. He can afford a good lawyer, slap on the wrist hopefully.
I mean if Talib can pop off some shots at someone and get off I don't see this as a big deal.