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Old 02-04-2013, 12:56 PM    (permalink
zachsaints52
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I am in the opposite boat. I hate upside players, especially the ones we have picked. Give me someone who did really well (Te'o) and hope someone falls to us in the 3rd.

I wanna trade down though personally.
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:05 PM    (permalink
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i'm totally down for a trade down but i want nothing to do with Te'o in the first round. We trade down and get a second i'm cool with taking him but not in the first. I want a player thats has more ceiling. I feel as thought Te'o is as good as he is gonna get.
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Old 02-04-2013, 11:03 PM    (permalink
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i'm totally down for a trade down but i want nothing to do with Te'o in the first round. We trade down and get a second i'm cool with taking him but not in the first. I want a player thats has more ceiling. I feel as thought Te'o is as good as he is gonna get.
So a solid tackler who had 437 tackles in his career, 34 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 7 ints, and has ran a 4.65 40?

Rather our guys want Mingo who had 119 tackles, 29 TFL, and 15 sacks.

Or Dion Jordan who had 121 tackles, 29 TFL, and 14.5 sacks.

Yes, I would take Te'o based on the fact that even if he has peaked, he will still be a solid player. Rather than a upside player. We have tried that a few times and we usually get burned by it.
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:03 AM    (permalink
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So a solid tackler who had 437 tackles in his career, 34 TFL, 8.5 sacks, 7 ints, and has ran a 4.65 40?

Rather our guys want Mingo who had 119 tackles, 29 TFL, and 15 sacks.

Or Dion Jordan who had 121 tackles, 29 TFL, and 14.5 sacks.

Yes, I would take Te'o based on the fact that even if he has peaked, he will still be a solid player. Rather than a upside player. We have tried that a few times and we usually get burned by it.
We don't know that though. Remember Aaron Curry? He was the Safest pick in the Draft a few years back, and had great college production for a Linebacker. He turned out to be a flop, benched, and released within a few seasons.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:59 AM    (permalink
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We don't know that though. Remember Aaron Curry? He was the Safest pick in the Draft a few years back, and had great college production for a Linebacker. He turned out to be a flop, benched, and released within a few seasons.
there is obviously no such thing as a lock to be great but a guy like Jordan (who wasnt even good in college but has great tools) has way more chance to bust than a guy who was great in college and has good tools
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Old 02-05-2013, 03:48 PM    (permalink
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We don't know that though. Remember Aaron Curry? He was the Safest pick in the Draft a few years back, and had great college production for a Linebacker. He turned out to be a flop, benched, and released within a few seasons.
Actually, I thought Tyson Jackson and Alex Mack were the safest picks, but I see what you mean. I also think who Curry played against in the ACC is different than who Te'o played in the Independent division. They always had mega games lined up.

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there is obviously no such thing as a lock to be great but a guy like Jordan (who wasnt even good in college but has great tools) has way more chance to bust than a guy who was great in college and has good tools
Here here!!!
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Old 02-05-2013, 05:10 PM    (permalink
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Here's my first official mock that I posted on my site:

1. Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU
3. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern
4. Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
5. Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
6. Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose State
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Old 02-05-2013, 08:56 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Here's my first official mock that I posted on my site:

1. Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU
3. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern
4. Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
5. Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
6. Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose State
I am a fan of the Leon pick.
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Old 02-06-2013, 10:51 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Here's my first official mock that I posted on my site:

1. Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU
3. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern
4. Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
5. Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
6. Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose State
PM me the link to said site please.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:15 AM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by diabsoule View Post
Here's my first official mock that I posted on my site:

1. Ziggy Ansah, DE, BYU
3. Brandon Williams, NT, Missouri Southern
4. Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
5. Leon McFadden, CB, San Diego State
6. Ryan Otten, TE, San Jose State
I highly doubt McFadden lasts till round 5. He was one of the stars of the senior bowl.

With Rob Ryan I don't know if I see Ansah as a fit for the 3-4 as well as some other prospects. Williams would be a stud though.
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:41 AM    (permalink
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I highly doubt McFadden lasts till round 5.
Yeah, his stock has gone up considerably.
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Old 02-06-2013, 09:44 PM    (permalink
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The 'high upside' athletes who may develop into football players usually bust. You think of the Aldon Smiths but for every one of those you have 20 who don't. Defensive ends are the hardest to project but I would rather trade down for Ansah - yes raw but he has football skills that show up on the field not just a fast twitch Combine workout guy- check out Scott's senior bowl reviews on him. Rob Ryan if next coordinator would love Demarcus Ware type.

Williams may have raised his stock above 3rd. I like the pick.

Teo is dropping and I bet he is going to come to play next year with a huge chip on his shoulder.

What are the prospects for getting the 2nd pick back? I think we might but the conditions for getting it back were lawyerly nebulous.

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Old 02-06-2013, 10:46 PM    (permalink
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The 'high upside' athletes who may develop into football players usually bust. You think of the Aldon Smiths but for every one of those you have 20 who don't. Defensive ends are the hardest to project but I would rather trade down for Ansah - yes raw but he has football skills that show up on the field not just a fast twitch Combine workout guy- check out Scott's senior bowl reviews on him. Rob Ryan if next coordinator would love Demarcus Ware type.

Williams may have raised his stock above 3rd. I like the pick.

Teo is dropping and I bet he is going to come to play next year with a huge chip on his shoulder.

What are the prospects for getting the 2nd pick back? I think we might but the conditions for getting it back were lawyerly nebulous.
Goodell said we won't get it back, so no chance.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:11 PM    (permalink
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I've been thinking of something recently. I really, really would not be opposed to taking a tight end in this draft especially if one falls to us in the 3rd that has a high upside and can compliment Graham. If we can grab one that's equally adept at pass-catching as well as a willing blocker who also has some upside then pairing him with Graham and incorporating a 2 TE system similar to what NE does would give defenses fits. Like Colston and Moore out wide, Graham in the the slot, TE "X" inside along the line and do whatever with him to where he can get in space.

The TE I'm thinking of is Gavin Escobar out of San Diego State. Go do a scouting report on him. From what I've read, he would seem to compliment Graham and our offense perfectly. Right now I've seen him projected between a 2-3, depending. If he falls to the 3rd I say grab him.

Also, the more mock drafts I look at the more I'm worried about one of the premier pass rushing 3-4 OLBs falling to us like Mingo, Jordan, or Damonte Moore. There IS a strong chance of Jarvis Jones being there and I'm torn on him as a prospect. I think he would be solid pick but he's on the small side and has medical concerns. That doesn't sit too well with me despite his obvious collegiate production against top competition.

One player I wouldn't mind reaching for in the 1st would be Desmond Trufant. We need CB help bad, especially since Greer is aging and is starting to have injury concerns and Johnny Patrick and Patrick Robinson combing last year to form Johnny Patrick Robinson, Saints secondary serial killer.

Trufant went HAM during the Senior Bowl practices and the game and would be a great building block in the secondary.

So, we could look at something like this:

Round 1. Desmond Trufant, CB, Washington
Round 3. Gavin Escobar, TE, San Diego State
Round 4. Terron Armstead, OT, Arkansas Pine-Bluff
Round 5. Montori Hughes, NT, Tennessee-Martin
Round 6. Meshak Williams, OLB, Kansas State

*** Obviously if Brandon Williams fell to the 5th that would be a coup for the Saints to be able to snag him. I know that I would sprint to NYC from Baton Rouge and hand in the card for the Saints if he was there in that round.

BTW, if you haven't scouted Meshak, or read any scouting reports, go do so. The dude is impressive, same with his teammate, CB Nigel Malone.
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Old 02-08-2013, 07:18 AM    (permalink
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I agree with you about needing a CB, but OLB such a bigger need, I don't see how we go through round 3 without addressing it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:22 AM    (permalink
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If I had to do a Saints "Dream Draft" this would be it (Based on Walterfootball rankings):

First, Trade down about 10ish picks and pick up a 3 and 4.

1. Manti Te'o ILB Notre Dame
3. Chase Thomas OLB Stanford
3. TJ McDonald S USC
4. Oday Obushi OT Virginia
4. Kwame Geathers NT Georgia
5. Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU
6. Michael Williams TE Alabama
7. Denard Robinson ATH Michigan
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:20 AM    (permalink
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If I had to do a Saints "Dream Draft" this would be it (Based on Walterfootball rankings):

First, Trade down about 10ish picks and pick up a 3 and 4.

1. Manti Te'o ILB Notre Dame
3. Chase Thomas OLB Stanford
3. TJ McDonald S USC
4. Oday Obushi OT Virginia
4. Kwame Geathers NT Georgia
5. Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU
6. Michael Williams TE Alabama
7. Denard Robinson ATH Michigan
im fine with the first four, flat out hate the last four picks for various reasons
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:36 AM    (permalink
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im fine with the first four, flat out hate the last four picks for various reasons
Understandable. But reasons for last 4:

Kwame Geathers- Dude is 6'6, 350 pounds. Not much of a pass rusher, but for a NT do you need that? Him and Jenkins solidified that middle and made it a very good run defense. I see him taking on two blockers everytime.

Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU

Basically I picked him because he is a CB with solid coverage skills. He is a risk because of his past, but this is a 5th rounder that if he stayed cleaned wouldv'e been a Top 100 pick more than likely. Yes he is undersized, but so is Greer? And Greer is getting ready to leave in the next year or two, so he can learn from Jabari.


Michael Williams TE Alabama

A solid run blocker who can go out for passes. I see him being a better version of David Thomas personally, and I loved Thomas.

Denard Robinson ATH Michigan

Honestly, the reason I picked him was mainly for the reason I think he could be our next Darren Sproles. Give him 2 years with NFL strength and conditioning to bulk up (I highly doubt he ever tried to bulk trying to stay at QB) and see if he can help us when Sproles goes out. Plus, we have had solid luck with late picks recently.
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Old 02-08-2013, 11:43 AM    (permalink
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If I had to do a Saints "Dream Draft" this would be it (Based on Walterfootball rankings):

First, Trade down about 10ish picks and pick up a 3 and 4.

1. Manti Te'o ILB Notre Dame
3. Chase Thomas OLB Stanford
3. TJ McDonald S USC
4. Oday Obushi OT Virginia
4. Kwame Geathers NT Georgia
5. Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU
6. Michael Williams TE Alabama
7. Denard Robinson ATH Michigan
I actually like this. Consider also that we should get at least one compensatory pick between the 3rd and 5th.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:21 PM    (permalink
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Understandable. But reasons for last 4:

Kwame Geathers- Dude is 6'6, 350 pounds. Not much of a pass rusher, but for a NT do you need that? Him and Jenkins solidified that middle and made it a very good run defense. I see him taking on two blockers everytime.

Tyrann Mathieu CB LSU

Basically I picked him because he is a CB with solid coverage skills. He is a risk because of his past, but this is a 5th rounder that if he stayed cleaned wouldv'e been a Top 100 pick more than likely. Yes he is undersized, but so is Greer? And Greer is getting ready to leave in the next year or two, so he can learn from Jabari.


Michael Williams TE Alabama

A solid run blocker who can go out for passes. I see him being a better version of David Thomas personally, and I loved Thomas.

Denard Robinson ATH Michigan

Honestly, the reason I picked him was mainly for the reason I think he could be our next Darren Sproles. Give him 2 years with NFL strength and conditioning to bulk up (I highly doubt he ever tried to bulk trying to stay at QB) and see if he can help us when Sproles goes out. Plus, we have had solid luck with late picks recently.
Ill put in my reasons why i hate the picks as well for kicks

Kwame is a lazy bum, couldnt even sort of see the field for georgia on a regular basis and doesnt have the pride to go back to georgia and actually start a year before going pro. dont like the attitude and he doesnt seem to have the motor to ever see the field on a consistent basis. also his pad level is really crappy. Basically he has good godgiven talent but thats it.

Mathieu has zero coverage skills, will never be a starter. Dont like spending picks on guys where nickel corner is the best case scenario.

Michael Williams is slower than most offensive linemen and only has a role on a run first team. He isnt comparable to david thomas, thomas wasnt a stud receiving but solid and he had versatility (being able to line up at fullback). We are flat out the worst possible fit for Williams. If you want to spend a late rounder on a TE do it on a high upside guy like Fauria.

I like spending a 7th rounder on a developmental guy but Denard would be a developmental guy on a position where we are already stacked with developmental guys. pick a small school corner or an athletic but undeveloped passrusher or something, rb is the last position id want a developmental guy
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Old 02-08-2013, 01:47 PM    (permalink
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Ill put in my reasons why i hate the picks as well for kicks

Kwame is a lazy bum, couldnt even sort of see the field for georgia on a regular basis and doesnt have the pride to go back to georgia and actually start a year before going pro. dont like the attitude and he doesnt seem to have the motor to ever see the field on a consistent basis. also his pad level is really crappy. Basically he has good godgiven talent but thats it.

Mathieu has zero coverage skills, will never be a starter. Dont like spending picks on guys where nickel corner is the best case scenario.

Michael Williams is slower than most offensive linemen and only has a role on a run first team. He isnt comparable to david thomas, thomas wasnt a stud receiving but solid and he had versatility (being able to line up at fullback). We are flat out the worst possible fit for Williams. If you want to spend a late rounder on a TE do it on a high upside guy like Fauria.

I like spending a 7th rounder on a developmental guy but Denard would be a developmental guy on a position where we are already stacked with developmental guys. pick a small school corner or an athletic but undeveloped passrusher or something, rb is the last position id want a developmental guy
I can agree on some points, but what I disagree on for each:

I agree about pad level, but if our coaches can't teach a player how to stay lower then our coaches need help as well. I've always been told you can't teach two things, height and speed. This dude is a behemoth who with Rob Ryan chewing his butt out either gives up or becomes solid. Also, shouldn't this guy have the "high upside" most of our posters want, like Dion Jordan? This guy with a fire under him would be yet another steal for us.

I actually believe Mathieu would be the perfect Nickel CB for us. And as a 5th round pick, I would LOVE to have a CB who we can pencil in to play against the slot WRs we play against. Also, he is a dynamic PR, which will alow Sproles to go more time for the offense.

When I said David Thomas I was strictly talking when he lines up at TE, because of Collins being here. I actually believe when Payton comes back, we will be running the ball more, which is why I personally like Michael. Also, as a 2nd TE, he won't have that many routes to run, and they all will be short routes. He doesn't need particularly fast. And Fauria will be gone by the 6th in my eyes. If Fauria is there, we can switch the names out, and I would be happy. I just see him moving up during the combine/ pro days.

I actually think we will be losing Ivory for sure this offseason, PT23 and Sproles are free agents next year. I don't know if Cadet is someone you see as a 3rd RB right now, so why not bring a guy in to study after Sproles for a year because Sproles will be like 33 when he hits FA? I would love to have his replacement waiting in the wings personally. This is another pick I can say could be exchanged, but I dont know any "athletes" on the defensive side of the ball that would be 7th rounders.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:24 AM    (permalink
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What would y'all think of drafting Kenny Vaccaro in the first? He's a game-changing type of safety that would do wonders for the back half of our defenses.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:33 PM    (permalink
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What would y'all think of drafting Kenny Vaccaro in the first? He's a game-changing type of safety that would do wonders for the back half of our defenses.
i would prefer him if we cant get Mingo or Jordan.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:15 PM    (permalink
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What would y'all think of drafting Kenny Vaccaro in the first? He's a game-changing type of safety that would do wonders for the back half of our defenses.
i think he is a third round talent at best so, no i wouldnt like it
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:53 PM    (permalink
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What would y'all think of drafting Kenny Vaccaro in the first? He's a game-changing type of safety that would do wonders for the back half of our defenses.
I thought of selecting him in my round-by-round mock for the Saints, since I think he's more or less a mid-first round pick. But I think there might be some decent safeties (T.J. McDonald, perhaps) available in the later rounds.
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