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Old 01-25-2013, 05:53 PM    (permalink
JohnCandy
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
While they do allow a ton of pressure up the middle, they, in fact, allow more on the edges.



I'm sorry, but you're uninformed here. Yes, Carimi sucks at RT. His pass pro was abysmal. However, in his time at RG, it was better. At both positions, he was among the best in the NFL in run blocking. The man clearly has a future at RG if he doesn't turn it around at RT. John Scott did not stabilize the position. His pass pro was barely better and his run blocking was nonexistent. He was actually a net loss for the Bears. I expect that he will not be offered a contract this offseason. RT is very much a need, as the Bears don't have one.
Carimi was benched at RG as well.

In fact he was benched at 2 different positions and while he was a solid run blocker he was an abysmal pass protector and the Bears are going to a west coast offense which requires pass protection.

And the health arguement is moot as well it has been 16 months since he was injured.

He is what he is and that is not any good.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Originally Posted by Monomach View Post
While they do allow a ton of pressure up the middle, they, in fact, allow more on the edges.



I'm sorry, but you're uninformed here. Yes, Carimi sucks at RT. His pass pro was abysmal. However, in his time at RG, it was better. At both positions, he was among the best in the NFL in run blocking. The man clearly has a future at RG if he doesn't turn it around at RT. John Scott did not stabilize the position. His pass pro was barely better and his run blocking was nonexistent. He was actually a net loss for the Bears. I expect that he will not be offered a contract this offseason. RT is very much a need, as the Bears don't have one.
Agree 100% with everything. The Bears need linemen at any position they can get them. Nobody that played OL for them in the last 3 years has been even average. Scott wasn't very good. The best thing I can say about him is he didn't completely whiff on blocks like Carimi and Webb did at times. The thing that scares me about Emery's comments about Scott is that I really don't want him back. If he comes back that means the Bears probably didn't do anything about the OT position on either side.

The realistic ideal situation for the Bears OL would be to re-sign Lance Louis (not great, but not terrible). Give Garza 1 more year (terrible, but not killing the team). Then sign a free agent LT or LG, and use an early draft pick on whichever one they didn't sign. Louis/Carimi compete for RG. Carimi/Webb compete for RT.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:38 PM    (permalink
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Carimi was benched at RG as well.
Yeah, and Lovie also benched a pro bowl corner after having one bad game in a season in which he allowed a QB rating in the 70s and didn't allow a TD. Doesn't mean a thing, as he still outperformed every player that took a snap at guard in Chicago last season. Just means Lovie handled his roster like **** and ignored advanced metrics when evaluating player performance, which we already knew.

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In fact he was benched at 2 different positions and while he was a solid run blocker he was an abysmal pass protector and the Bears are going to a west coast offense which requires pass protection.
You're still wrong. His pass pro at G was fine. It was only at RT that he was abysmal. He wasn't a "solid" run blocker. He was very close to the top of the league. You think a west coast offense requires pass pro? Do you think we didn't when we ran some variation of Air Coryell the past three years? That requires twice the pass pro of a WC. The west coast offense unloads the ball twice as fast as what we've been doing.

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And the health arguement is moot as well it has been 16 months since he was injured.
He had time for his knee to heal, but not time to regain the lower body weight he lost from not being able to lift that entire time. You're being willfully ignorant.

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He is what he is and that is not any good.
He's a better linemen than you are an analyst. What did you do? Watch Bears games in real-time and look at a stat sheet without going back and checking snap-by-snap? Anyone who would dare to accuse Jon Scott of stabilizing anything while assuming an air of knowledge may as well put a sign around their neck that says "BERATE ME. I AM A FRAUD."

...and you know what? They guy's started 14 games in his career. You really think that's an adequate sample size to make a decision on?

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Old 02-12-2013, 06:44 AM    (permalink
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Did anyone else not realize his face looked like that? Holy crap. It's like evolution just said screw it, then got hit with some gamma radiation. I don't know whether to draft the guy or put him in a museum.

He can play RT for me any time.
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Old 02-12-2013, 09:39 AM    (permalink
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I love Fluker, he's got high upside and a very high floor also IMO. Slap him at RT you get a road grader, put him at Guard and he can work in a booth very well, he's got that versatility to move around in his first few years in the league as needed also. I really hope Dallas is looking at him long and hard, I love me some Jonathan Cooper but we could play Fluker at Guard and then kick him out to RT after his first year and give Jeremy Parnell a stop gap year at RT(who has looked surprisingly good).
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:08 PM    (permalink
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You cannot teach what Fluker is, there is no amount of time in the weight room that turns you into Fluker.

Than man is a freak of nature.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:53 PM    (permalink
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Did anyone else not realize his face looked like that? Holy crap. It's like evolution just said screw it, then got hit with some gamma radiation. I don't know whether to draft the guy or put him in a museum.

He can play RT for me any time.
Looks a lot like one of those 70 year old purebred Australian aborigines...except three times as big.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:54 PM    (permalink
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If you were to rank Fluker only as a guard prospect, where would he fit on your big board if you weren't factoring in position value?

For me he's be top 10 for sure. Could easily see both he and Warmack becoming the two best guards in the game.
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?
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Old 02-12-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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If you were to rank Fluker only as a guard prospect, where would he fit on your big board if you weren't factoring in position value?

For me he's be top 10 for sure. Could easily see both he and Warmack becoming the two best guards in the game.
Answered my question while I was posting. LOL.
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Old 02-12-2013, 03:24 PM    (permalink
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At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?
I really think he can. I'm that high on him as a OG.
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Old 02-12-2013, 06:27 PM    (permalink
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Been digging the Flukster ever since I saw his profile and this pic on the Rivals100 list.

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Old 02-12-2013, 07:54 PM    (permalink
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If there is enough that powerful interior linemen like Iupati and Pouncey to get drafted in the first round, then Fluker should be a first rounder as well.

At the very least he is going to be a quality guard prospect and has huge upside imho.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:11 PM    (permalink
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At Guard in the NFL... could Fluker be just as good or better than Warmack?
No, not even close, if Warmack played OT, he be a top 10 pick, Flucker will get drafted very late round 1 or early round 2 and will play RT in the NFL. He might make a very few Pro Bowls but he won't be special.

Warmack is a future HOFer if he stays healthy. Flucker simply doesn't have the feet to be special, is likely overweight and will always struggle against speed. The team that drafts Warmack will immediately be a dominate interior rushing team with a very solid pass protector.
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Old 02-12-2013, 10:59 PM    (permalink
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No, not even close, if Warmack played OT, he be a top 10 pick, Flucker will get drafted very late round 1 or early round 2 and will play RT in the NFL. He might make a very few Pro Bowls but he won't be special.
For somebody who claims they can't tell the future you sure do act like it. Fluker is more likely to go mid round 1 then he is early round 2 and you have no clue if a team will draft him to be a guard or tackle because he can play either one. Seems like your just making a bunch of assumptions here with no basis to it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 02:55 PM    (permalink
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For somebody who claims they can't tell the future you sure do act like it. Fluker is more likely to go mid round 1 then he is early round 2 and you have no clue if a team will draft him to be a guard or tackle because he can play either one. Seems like your just making a bunch of assumptions here with no basis to it.
I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:06 PM    (permalink
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This is a guy that just seems like he could make a Brady Quinn like slide to round 2.

There are several LT prospects in the draft, so they'll keep teams wanting OT help satisfied. There are 2 elite OG prospects in this draft. So he's not going to go before them either. It is going to take a team that thinks he will make it as a RT and want him more than some other position in order for him to have his name called in R1. Realistically, I'm not sure there are many teams in the back half of round 1 willing to do that.

This is a weird draft with not a lot of separation between the 15th through 50th rated players. The combine will undoubtedly create some separation since everyone is so close. Fluker will need to do very well there.

Of course, Seattle went that route already (Carpenter) at 25. The main difference between the two drafts, is that there wasn't a lot of talent to compete with in 2011. Fluker has much stiffer competition in 2013. Even amongst his own position group.

Additionally, Carpenter played LT and had shown the ability to move around the line. It was probably the main reason we took him instead of Carimi or someone else. Ultimately, it was a pick we couldn't trade out of and were stuck with making the pick. So he wasn't our best case option.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:11 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.
He's not coming into the league in the middle of a contract negotiation. His contract is set where he is picked, not from what position his team puts him at. That point is completely irrelevant for rookies.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:12 PM    (permalink
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perhaps. except, well, Brady Quinn went round 1...
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:13 PM    (permalink
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perhaps. except, well, Brady Quinn went round 1...
And if he is drafted at the beginning of round 2 I'm not sure anyone would really classify that as a huge slide or fall in the draft.
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I guarantee that if someone picks Cam Newton in the Top 5 they will regret it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:29 PM    (permalink
Iamcanadian
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He's not coming into the league in the middle of a contract negotiation. His contract is set where he is picked, not from what position his team puts him at. That point is completely irrelevant for rookies.
Agents and players know the money is gotten when their rookie contracts are up and the position you play will decide how much you make if you are a good player. OG's make considerably less money than an OT and to get Flucker and his agent to agree to a switch to OG will be a very tough sell.

IMO, his agent will be telling teams that want Flucker to play OG to back off of drafting him, suggesting he won't make the switch. Teams that draft him to play OG will be facing a very reluctant player who may not give it his all in those circumstances. He could be a headache for a team if they switch him without giving him a solid shot at playing RT.

I'm not saying he won't eventually end up at OG if he's not good enough to play RT, that's a process that every rookie goes through but to draft him as an OG right from the start, good luck to the team that tries it.
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Old 02-13-2013, 04:52 PM    (permalink
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Agents and players know the money is gotten when their rookie contracts are up and the position you play will decide how much you make if you are a good player. OG's make considerably less money than an OT and to get Flucker and his agent to agree to a switch to OG will be a very tough sell.

IMO, his agent will be telling teams that want Flucker to play OG to back off of drafting him, suggesting he won't make the switch. Teams that draft him to play OG will be facing a very reluctant player who may not give it his all in those circumstances. He could be a headache for a team if they switch him without giving him a solid shot at playing RT.

I'm not saying he won't eventually end up at OG if he's not good enough to play RT, that's a process that every rookie goes through but to draft him as an OG right from the start, good luck to the team that tries it.
LMAO

This is silly talk. He's going to play where the team puts him or he won't be getting any second contract at all after his three years of riding the bench with a reputation as a huge cancer. What kind of leverage do you really think a late first/early second rounder has here?
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Old 02-13-2013, 05:49 PM    (permalink
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I see him as a guard, too. He's just not really as fluid as I want a tackle to be, and is vulnerable when he gets isolated in space against speed rushers. But he's huge and powerful and takes up a lot of space, and can be very effective holding a gap in pass pro and creating lanes in the run game.
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Old 02-13-2013, 08:45 PM    (permalink
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I don't think he has the feet or the conditioning to go round 1, however he has a chance, and his agent will make it tough to switch him to OG where the pay is considerably lower. Not saying he won't end up at OG eventually but he will have to flop at RT before he gets switched. Players and agents aren't stupid, they know where the money is and it's not at OG.
How do you say that?

Fluker has exception mobility for his size?

Guards have been drafted quite often in the first round in recent years. I don't buy the positional argument there. Some teams will see him as a right tackle, others will see him as a guard.

your comments about money and agents, dont make sense at all. With the rookie wage scale, he will get paid based on where he gets selected.

A team will pick him and play him where they want, the player or agent get little choice until the rookie contract is up.

I think Fluker will end up in the 15-20 range.

In free agency the contracts the top guards are getting isn't that different to what the top RTs get anyways.

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Old 02-13-2013, 09:18 PM    (permalink
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OG make more than RT. Top OGs are making an average of 9 million a season can someone show me a RT making anywhere near that?

And the franchise number is the same for all OLmen.

Fluker will play OG if that is where he is going to be the best and make the most Pro Bowls and then he will sign a deal like Carl Nicks (5 years 45 million) or Jahri Evans (7 year 56 million) or Logan Mankins (6 year 51 million).

For comparisons the highest paid RTs are,

Tyson Clabo 5 years 25 million (11 guaranteed)
Eric Winston 4 years 22 million
Doug Free 4 years 32 million (17 guaranteed), and Doug Free was playing LT.

It is not even close between RT and OG.

If your not playing LT the money is at OG, not RT.

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